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Thread: [Deck] TMT – Graboids! aka Control Loam

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    [Deck] TMT – Graboids! aka Control Loam

    „TMT – Graboids!“
    by Brot_Ohne_Kruste

    Introduction:
    Many of you will know the decks Aggro Loam and Loam Pox, but have you ever asked yourself what kind of deck you will get, if you would combine those two? After the confimation of „Worm Harvest“ I wanted to know answer, so I tooled a little bit with the deck and after a few matches on MWS the deck really impressed me. The hard controlplan of this deck combined with the flexibility of the Wishes fitted to my playstyle and I built it to play tournaments with it. Now, here is the decklist I'm currently playing:

    // Lands
    3 Badlands
    3 Barren Moor
    2 Bayou
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Forest
    1 Forgotten Cave
    3 Swamp
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    4 Wasteland
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Mountain

    // Spells
    4 Burning Wish
    2 Crime/Punishment
    2 Devastating Dreams
    3 Life from the Loam
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Pernicious Deed
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Smallpox
    1 Worm Harvest
    2 Recoup
    2 Seismic Assault
    2 Sensei's Divining Top

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 Worm Harvest
    SB: 1 Devastating Dreams
    SB: 1 Life from the Loam
    SB: 1 Hull Breach
    SB: 3 Krosan Grip
    SB: 1 Shattering Spree
    SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
    SB: 1 Reverent Silence
    SB: 1 Regrowth
    SB: 1 Raven's Crime
    As you can see I'm playing 10 LD-spells, 4 LD-lands and a couple of massremoval cards. Now we're coming to the...


    Cardchoices:
    MB:
    Lands:
    Badlands: Should be clear.
    Bayou: Should be clear.
    Bloodstained Mire: Should be clear.
    Wooded Foothills: Should be clear.
    Polluted Delta: Should be clear.
    Forest: Against Wastelands.
    Swamp: Against Wastelands.
    Mountain: Against Wastelands.
    Barren Moor: Carddraw.
    Forgotten Cave: Carddraw.
    Tranquil Thicket: Carddraw.
    Wasteland: Recurringable LD.

    Spells:
    Burning Wish: Gives you flexibility.
    Crime/Punishment: Massremoval as sorcery. Sometimes, if a Mox is online, you can steel opponents creatures or enchantments.
    Devastating Dreams: LD + creature-massremoval.
    Life from the Loam: Engine with cycling-lands.
    Mox Diamond: Gives the deck speed.
    Pernicious Deed: Buys time.
    Sinkhole: LD to shut down the opponent.
    Smallpox: LD, removal and discard in one.
    Worm Harvest: Wincondition.
    Recoup: Brings back a sorcery, which can be very cool (e.g. countered Wishes or Punishments).
    Seismic Assault: Secondary wincondition.


    SB:
    Crime/Punishment: Wishable massremoval.
    Devastating Dreams: Wishable LD.
    Life from the Loam: Wishable Engine:
    Hull Breach: Wishable enchantment- and artifactremoval.
    Krosan Grip: Against Leylines and Counterbalances.
    Shattering Spree: Wishable mass-artifactremoval.
    Raven's Crime: Recurringable, wishable discard.
    Reverent Silence: Maybe against Enchantress and to dodge Counterbalance.
    Chalice of the Void: Most opponents don't like this card and sideboarding it is awesome against many decks.


    Alternate Cardchoices (cards which I tested before):
    MB:
    Hymn to Tourach: Wasn't as strong as the LD was.
    Cabal Pit: Wasteland does a better job on Factories, the rest could be handled with the massremoval most times.
    Roar of the Wurm: A good card, but the token died to Explosives 0 too often.
    Chalice of the Void: I played them for a long time after I realized that this card just does nearly nothing.
    Syphon Life: An another wincondition, not that great.
    Nether Spirit: This card is quite okay, but there are better cards.
    Gigapede: Recurringable 6/1 shroud creature is pretty nasty for the most decks. The problem is the lack of trample.

    SB:
    Leyline of the Void: I think Coffin Purges are better in this deck.
    Coffin Purge: I don't really know, I think its pretty good against spells, that target a card in grave (e.g. Life from the Loam, Dread Return, Academy Ruins -> EE). Could be good.
    Haunting Echoes: LD + massremoval + Echoes = almost no more lands and other stuff, but it isn't really necessary.
    Void: Massremoval with discard. However it costs too much.
    Perish: Against Tarmogoyf and Mongoose.


    How the deck plays:
    Graboids! is a deck which destroys all lands in the first few turns to slow down the opponent and get your Lftl-engine going. The deck tries to get a good boardposition by destroying nearly all permanents the opponent has which almost all the times happens. Normally the opponent doesn't get to 1-2 lands in the early and mid game and we've got about 6-8 manasources at this point. If necessary spells (like Wishes, Dreams or Punishment) were countered, Recoup does its job and gives them flashback to destroy parts of their board. After all, it's just a Loam deck so it plays like a Loam deck (draw cards through cycling-lands etc.) that has got many control elements.


    Tested Matchups:
    Uwb Cunningstill:
    Before I added Recoup to the board, the Matchup was like 40-60 in Cunningstills favor. After the addition the matchup is at about 70-30 in our favor. Recoup is so incredible in this matchup. The main problem without Recoup was that, if my spells were countered, I haven't got any access to them anymore and lost games because of it. Even Extirpates aren't a big problem because if the could cast it, we've got about 6+ manasources.
    Pre: 70-30
    Post: 55-45 (there is maybe Crypt in the SB)

    4c Cunningstill:
    It's even better than 3c because they are running such a small count of Basics.
    Pre: 75-25
    Post: 65-35

    Ugb Thresh (with Wasteland, Extirpate and Stifle):
    It's quite a good Matchup, even they are playing Extirpate.
    Pre: 60-40
    Post: 55-45

    Ugw / Ugr Thresh:
    Better than the Ugb Matchup.
    Pre: 65-35
    Post: 55-45 (Crypts)

    Goblins:
    With massremoval and LD this Matchup is quite good.
    Pre: 75-25
    Post: 65-35 (Crypts)

    AggroLoam:
    This Matchup is in our favor. Even if they have got Loam, the LD is quite hard for them.
    Pre: 60-40
    Post: 55-45

    Death and Taxes:
    Generally it's an aggro-deck that dies to LD.
    Pre: 65-35
    Post: 55-45 (Crypts + Stonecloaker)

    TES:
    Chalice is good in this Matchup, but LD is good too. If you could wish for Raven's Crime, it's winable.
    Pre: 35-65

    Survival:
    Quite good because of LD.
    Pre: 65-35
    Post: 60-40

    Ichorid:
    It's pretty bad I think. Expect you could drop a Deed.
    Pre: 35-65
    Post: 30-70

    Echantress:
    Not really positve because of Karmic Justice and Replenish.
    Pre: 35-65
    Post: 35-65

    Pikula:
    Preboard is okay, but Withered Wretch and Extirpate Postboard isn't that cool.
    Pre: 55-45
    Post: 45-55

    Eva Green:
    It's a positive Matchup for us, even if the board Extirpates.
    Pre: 60-40
    Post: 55-45

    Goyf Sligh
    It's in their favor preboard because of the burn. After boarding, we've got Chalices.
    Pre: 40-60
    Post: 50-50

    5c Zoo
    It's a little bit in their favor preboard.
    Pre: 40-60
    Post: 50-50

    Both, Zoo and Goyf Sligh are pretty untested.


    Untested Matchups:
    Dragon Stompy
    Armageddon Stax
    Fetchland Tendrils
    other Landstill lists
    Intuition Thresh
    CB Thresh / Aggro-Control

    I don't think all Matchups are correct, but the most are.


    What does Graboids! better than other Loam-decks?:
    I don't want to say that Graboids! is better than other Loam-decks, it's just different. Most Loam-decks need the Loam-engine to win games, this deck doesn't. I've won games against multiple Crypts + 2x per turn Stonecloaker or multiple Extirpates. I don't know how this deck does such things, but I was really surprised and impressed by these facts. One problem of that deck, which gladly doesn't occur so often, is that it can't find solutions so good like other Loam-decks can, but by adding Recoups the problem was weakened. Another problem is CB+Top, like for any other Loam-deck, but we've got a few solutions (Deed and Punishment für 2 [most decks doesn't play spells with cc4]).
    In my eyes it is a little more controllish than Loam Pox is and it isn't such easy to shut-off from doing Loam-action or other things. But because of the fact that Graboids! is a control-deck, it isn't as fast as AggroLoam is.



    At the end I want to thank my teammembers from Team Mind Twisted, my testing partners, the people who invented and tested AggroLoam and Loam Pox for the inspiration they gave me and of course Ron Underwood for producing the film tremors which let me to the deck's name ;).
    I hope you liked the deck and enjoyed reading the primer. Please leave a feedback and / or improvisations that I could do.


    Tournament results of big tournaments:
    Dülmen (08-24-08 - without Recoups and I was also pretty unlucky): 3-2-1
    Iserlohn (10-05-08 - I made a few mistakes, but its getting better): 4-2-0
    Dülmen (10-12-08 - I made one mistake, which costed me the first match): 5-1-1 (8th out of 68)


    Old decklists:
    Here are some old decklists so that you can follow the evolution that deck took:

    from 08-06-08 (it started with a Loam Pox list):
    // Lands
    4 [A] Bayou
    3 [TE] Wasteland
    1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3 [ON] Swamp (3)
    2 [ON] Polluted Delta
    3 [4E] Mishra's Factory
    2 [OD] Cabal Pit
    1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    3 [ON] Barren Moor

    // Spells
    2 [IA] Pox
    3 [EVE] Worm Harvest
    4 [A] Dark Ritual
    3 [SH] Mox Diamond
    2 [AP] Phyrexian Arena
    3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
    4 [TSP] Smallpox
    4 [A] Sinkhole
    3 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (4)
    4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
    2 [EVE] Raven's Crime
    from 08-12-08:
    // Lands
    3 [A] Badlands
    3 [ON] Barren Moor
    2 [A] Bayou
    4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [A] Forest (1)
    1 [ON] Forgotten Cave
    3 [IN] Swamp (1)
    1 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
    3 [TE] Wasteland
    3 [ON] Wooded Foothills

    // Spells
    4 [JU] Burning Wish
    4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
    2 [TO] Devastating Dreams
    3 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    4 [SH] Mox Diamond
    3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
    4 [A] Sinkhole
    3 [TSP] Smallpox
    1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
    2 [OD] Roar of the Wurm
    1 [EVE] Syphon Life
    3 [OD] Recoup
    2 [DIS] Crime/Punishment

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [TO] Devastating Dreams
    SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    SB: 1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
    SB: 1 [OD] Haunting Echoes
    SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
    SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
    SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
    SB: 1 [EVE] Raven's Crime
    SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
    SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
    Last edited by Brot_Ohne_Kruste; 10-28-2008 at 04:00 PM.

  2. #2
    I only play blue for Brainstorm and combo.
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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    I actually really like this deck. Especially the name, The Tremors series are some of my favorite movies ever. In particular Tremors 2: Aftershocks. I have no idea why, but I fucking love that movie. Anyway, I have a lot of experience with Aggro Loam and I would not play any wishboard without these 5 cards:

    1x Life From the Loam
    1x Shattering Spree/Meltdown/Seeds of Innocence
    1x Devastating Dreams
    1x Reverent Silence
    1x Chainer's Edict

    And with your build I would highly recommend Cranial Extraction as a 3x of in the SB and also 1x additional Worm Harvest in case you can't find it and 1x Regrowth to bring back Seismic Assault or whatever good shit is needed at the time.

    I also am not sure Raven's Crime is necessary. I am certainly going to give this deck a shot but Raven's Crime seems out of place. The whole deck is focused on fucking up your opponent's manabase and then randomly its like AHHH DISCARD YOUR HAND. Its cool and everything but I am not sure how necessary it is, maybe as a 1x of in the SB. Personally I would cut Raven's Crime and add the 6th cycling land to the deck and something like Harmonize.

    Also, don't play any less than 4x Wasteland. The only time I hated seeing Wasteland in multiples is in my opening hand without a Mox Diamond, thats it.

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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction View Post
    I actually really like this deck. Especially the name, The Tremors series are some of my favorite movies ever. In particular Tremors 2: Aftershocks. I have no idea why, but I fucking love that movie. Anyway, I have a lot of experience with Aggro Loam and I would not play any wishboard without these 5 cards:

    1x Life From the Loam
    1x Shattering Spree/Meltdown/Seeds of Innocence
    1x Devastating Dreams
    1x Reverent Silence
    1x Chainer's Edict

    And with your build I would highly recommend Cranial Extraction as a 3x of in the SB and also 1x additional Worm Harvest in case you can't find it and 1x Regrowth to bring back Seismic Assault or whatever good shit is needed at the time.

    I also am not sure Raven's Crime is necessary. I am certainly going to give this deck a shot but Raven's Crime seems out of place. The whole deck is focused on fucking up your opponent's manabase and then randomly its like AHHH DISCARD YOUR HAND. Its cool and everything but I am not sure how necessary it is, maybe as a 1x of in the SB. Personally I would cut Raven's Crime and add the 6th cycling land to the deck and something like Harmonize.

    Also, don't play any less than 4x Wasteland. The only time I hated seeing Wasteland in multiples is in my opening hand without a Mox Diamond, thats it.

    Hi,

    actually Raven's Crime was for testing; I've played two Hymn to Tourach in place of them and I wasn't really satisfied with it, so I tried Raven's Crime. Maybe I'll play one Scrubland to support two Vindicates in that slot.
    Also thanks for the SB-suggestions, I'll try Regrowth, it should be pretty good.
    The problem of playing 4 Wastelands is that I don't know what to cut. If I'm cutting the Crimes and Vindicates aren't good (e.g. with Vindicates I've got a vulnurable manabase), I'll try an additional Wasteland.

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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    Looks solid, I would like to see some more winconditions. It seems you would go to time in an awful lot of matchups you should have won. I really hate Mox Diamond and Deed in the same deck though.

    I have a hard time believing your matchup against Storm combo though. This seems like an awful matchup considering your slow disruption and your lack of wincondtions. If they go off on turn 2 and they are on the play, there really isn't much you can do to prevent that.

    But this deck really punishes bad manabases and Deed is awesome right now, so I could see this deck do quite good if you don't go to time too often.

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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    @Mantis: Which other wincoditions do you want to play? Mishra's Factory? Rude Awakening or Beacons in the SB? I've tested Roar of the Wurm (which always died to EE), Nether Spirit and Undead Gladiator, but I don't really think they are good especially because they aren't finisher. But you're right, the problem of this deck is, that you will often time against anything containing blue and counter.

    To the Stormcombo-Matchup: Yeah, this could be. I've just done three games against it with Chalice main and I won all of them. Maybe I was just lucky.

    Maybe Shards will bring a few good wincons (and a couple of new combodecks -.-).

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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    Roar of the Wurm is way too expensive, if anything play Grizzly Fate (but perhaps Worm Harvest is just plain better. But I would play a sideboard finisher and Worm Harvest, Grizzly Fate or Rude Awakening seem like good candidates.

    Post Shards this deck might not even be viable anymore as people might start to pack Relic of Progenitus in the mainboard. But time will tell.

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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    I own all the cards for this deck, so I threw it together and tested it.

    It is the shit, like I really love it. Your only real problem is that your combo match up is actually lower than you list it being. Combo is probably a closer to 60/70% in their favor. But that's the trade off you make for demolishing everything else, thresh goblins ect.

    I've also upped the Smallpox count to four. With diamonds & a solitary gigapede maindeck, the effect from Smallpox is almost always asymmetrical, and the ability to knock off goyfs, dreadnoughts and tombstalkers left and right is astounding. It's significantly not as good against goblins, but you've got enough tools for that matchup already.

    I've cut the Deeds from the main. I don't like blowing up my moxen at all. It really doesn't feel right to do that. Also, I've upped the seismic assault count to 3, and brought worm harvest down to 1 main and one sideboard.


    I believe a deck quite similar to this one was listed at TheManaDrain under the title Kobe Loam. I think it ran a Genesis-Witness recursion engine though, which I find to be subpar compared to Recoup/running more good cards.
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryPheldagrif
    The important thing is to always, always remember that while Brainstorm may require the tea-sipping socialite to think for 15 minutes as to the ideal configuration to optimize his carefully calculated 10 trillion branched decision tree of splendid victory, JUGGERNAUT ATTACKS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

  8. #8
    I only play blue for Brainstorm and combo.
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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    @ Red Panda: So what does you list look like? Did you replace Deed with EE? That seems like the better card than Deed in a deck that runs Mox. Also, a little while back when I took Chalice out of the main in Aggro Loam I put in 3x Krosan Grip and 1x Putrefy in the main. Putrefy is a damn good card. Certainly something to consider. Also, did you cut Raven's Crime? 3x Seismic Assault just sounds wrong, a deck that consistently needs BB playing more spells that are so color specific, especially something like RRR. If it works then it works, but I am just saying you don't want to draw into Assault to early since you should be playing Smallpox and Sinkholes.

    EDIT: I have a good idea, how about cutting the 2x Raven's Crime and the 3x Pernicious Deed and putting in 4x Chalice of the Void and 1x Forgotten Cave.

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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
    Red Panda: So what does you list look like? Did you replace Deed with EE? That seems like the better card than Deed in a deck that runs Mox. Also, a little while back when I took Chalice out of the main in Aggro Loam I put in 3x Krosan Grip and 1x Putrefy in the main. Putrefy is a damn good card. Certainly something to consider. Also, did you cut Raven's Crime? 3x Seismic Assault just sounds wrong, a deck that consistently needs BB playing more spells that are so color specific, especially something like RRR. If it works then it works, but I am just saying you don't want to draw into Assault to early since you should be playing Smallpox and Sinkholes.

    Lets see if I can do my list from memory:

    Lands (25)

    4 Wasteland
    4 Cyclers (1 black 2 green 1 red)
    4 R/G fetch
    4 G/W fetch (my base is green, so I took these over the black-fetchers)
    4 Tiaga
    2 Bayou
    2 Forest
    1 Swamp

    4 Mox Diamond
    3 LFTL
    4 Burning Wish
    3 Devastating Dreams
    3 Engineered Explosives
    4 Smallpox
    1 Worm Harvest
    2 Boom/Bust (I like having an armageddon button. Plus, using the other half early isn't that bad. This card might go up in numbers.)
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Seismic Assault
    1 Raven's Crime (Soon to be replaced by something worth a damn, because this sucker STILL gets shut off by Chalice, and doesn't do much anyways)
    2 (I don't know what this card is, but I cut Sensei's for it when I put in Chalice)
    1 Gigapede

    Sideboard:

    4 Shattering Spree
    1 Boom/Bust
    1 Devastating Dreams
    1 LFTL
    1 Worm Harvest
    1 Void
    1 Firespout
    5 ?, where ? is some form of artifact and enchantment removal. I kinda want these to be Kgrips, but I also kinda want sorcery speed enchantment removal.


    That looks right, but I don't have the deck right next to me or anything.

    The mana costs are hideous. I know that, but somehow with Mox and 8 fetches, I manage to get by. RRR and BB and {G/B} {G/B} {G/B} all in the same deck. But it works, and the manabase is not shaky enough to merit not running some of those cards. That said, the singleton swamp is kinda stupid, because I can't fetch it. But I don't own B/R fetches, and I would probably have to shell out for them, which I don't wanna do.


    Card Choices:

    Smallpox: This is probably my favorite card in the whole deck to resolve. Eating your lands (especially only one of them) is completely negligible. Pitching a single card in a deck with LFTL is a joke, and 1 life is insignificant. This card is almost completely asymetrical. It should read, target player sacrifices a creature, a land and discards a card. The added bonus of being non-targeted removal with the ability to kill Tombstalker makes me cream myself. There are fewer cards out there than I originally thought that bring that beast down, and small pox does a hell of a good job of it.

    Devastating Dreams: Owns goblins, goyfstompy and anything else without blue. Hard. I hesitate to ever cast this against thresh, however, as getting one of these things spell-snared can be GG in itself, especially when pitching 4+ cards.

    Life from the Loam: Only marginally worse than Ancestral Recall. (Mild hyperbole)

    Burning Wish: Goes for Devastating Dreams first against non-blue aggro decks. Goes for Loam first against everything else. And I'm serious about going for DD. If that card resolves against aggro you win.

    Engineered Explosives: Better than Deed because it doesn't rape your moxen. Can be set as high as five, but only realistically as high as 4. Kills goyf dead.

    Chalice of the Void: Set to 1 first. If you draw more copies, set them to 0 first, then three. Please do not set to two. Think Holy Hand Grenade, but you never stop on 2.

    Boom/Bust: is surprisingly good. I originally put it in the deck for the Geddon effect, but then I started casting it as the "bad sinkhole" half, and I like it. I cut sinkhole because I thought it wasn't versatile enough, and this might qualify as my "more versatile" sinkhole. Geddon late(er) game is very nice, and with moxes and LFTL you can accelerate this to the point where it works pretty well.

    Seismic Assault: is almost worth having 4. I've found that If I resolve this, the control it gives me is through the roof. I've shocked down armies of critters before, and this card makes it happen. The fact that it finishes my opponent in short order after blasting his army away is a nice added bonus.

    Gigapede: Smashes face, doesn't get stuck with a plowshare, and comes back from the dead.

    Worm Harvest: Read Gigapede. These cards practically do the same thing, except this one is immune to Humility.




    Lots of weird one-ofs and two-ofs, but the deck works good. I still don't know what that last two-of is. It might become Putrefy if I find it's good in testing. Or if it turns out I have secret tech, which I highly doubt I do.
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryPheldagrif
    The important thing is to always, always remember that while Brainstorm may require the tea-sipping socialite to think for 15 minutes as to the ideal configuration to optimize his carefully calculated 10 trillion branched decision tree of splendid victory, JUGGERNAUT ATTACKS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

  10. #10
    I only play blue for Brainstorm and combo.
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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    I really like this deck but the more I goldfished it the more I began to realize how affected this deck is by Tormod's Crypt and Leyline of the Void. Aggro Loam just laughs at Tormod's Crypt, when playing Loam I want people to board this in so long as they take out potential threats cause Crypt does next to nothing to Aggro Loam. Graboids (fucking sweet name) seems to just be destroyed by Tormod's Crypt. You have to be careful what you are dredging with Loam, what gets removed when Crypt activates actually affects you. Both are affected by Leyline but Aggro Loam is more inconvenienced and this deck is almost just shut down. Mox, Land, Burning Wish for Reverent Silence stops this in both but graveyard hate just greatly affects this deck.

    Of course, that is what CotV is for but having to waste a CotV by setting it @ 0 just to avoid getting rocked by a sideboard card which may be a 3-4 of and shutting off you remaining Mox Diamonds is not a hot play. CotV should almost always be set @ 1 because substantial amount of 1 drops played in Legacy. I am not saying this as a rude comment but just as a serious question; what would be the benefit of playing this over Aggro Loam? Graboids is hella slower, easier to disrupt (as much as the sick-nasty Loam engine can be I suppose), and does it actually have better matchups than Aggro Loam does against the Legacy meta?

  11. #11
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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
    I am not saying this as a rude comment but just as a serious question; what would be the benefit of playing this over Aggro Loam? Graboids is hella slower, easier to disrupt (as much as the sick-nasty Loam engine can be I suppose), and does it actually have better matchups than Aggro Loam does against the Legacy meta?
    I can't think of any off the top of my head. This deck is more fun, but that really doesn't count. There is a reason it's in the new and developmental section.

    ...

    After thinking about it for a while, the only reason I can come up with is that this deck might be able to do better against control. We care a hell of a lot less about landstill than Aggro loam does. Humility=jack-squat to us, same with swords, ect. Most creature removal in the format does piddly to us, which makes a lot of cards in most peoples decks completely dead game one. That's not entirely the case for Aggro Loam. Hope that helps, but weak reasoning, I know.
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryPheldagrif
    The important thing is to always, always remember that while Brainstorm may require the tea-sipping socialite to think for 15 minutes as to the ideal configuration to optimize his carefully calculated 10 trillion branched decision tree of splendid victory, JUGGERNAUT ATTACKS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

  12. #12
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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda View Post
    Lets see if I can do my list from memory:

    Lands (25)

    4 Wasteland
    4 Cyclers (1 black 2 green 1 red)
    4 R/G fetch
    4 G/W fetch (my base is green, so I took these over the black-fetchers)
    4 Tiaga
    2 Bayou
    2 Forest
    1 Swamp

    4 Mox Diamond
    3 LFTL
    4 Burning Wish
    3 Devastating Dreams
    3 Engineered Explosives
    4 Smallpox
    1 Worm Harvest
    2 Boom/Bust (I like having an armageddon button. Plus, using the other half early isn't that bad. This card might go up in numbers.)
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Seismic Assault
    1 Raven's Crime (Soon to be replaced by something worth a damn, because this sucker STILL gets shut off by Chalice, and doesn't do much anyways)
    2 (I don't know what this card is, but I cut Sensei's for it when I put in Chalice)
    1 Gigapede

    Sideboard:

    4 Shattering Spree
    1 Boom/Bust
    1 Devastating Dreams
    1 LFTL
    1 Worm Harvest
    1 Void
    1 Firespout
    5 ?, where ? is some form of artifact and enchantment removal. I kinda want these to be Kgrips, but I also kinda want sorcery speed enchantment removal.
    Mh, I don't know. I can see the reasons to run EE over Deed, but I don't think that EE is betten than Deed. Sure, you are running the Mox, but in most cases you want to blow up the Deed in the mid- or lategame and at this point you've got enough manasources so it doesn't matter if you blow up a Mox. The reason I play Deed is that it destoys more permanents than EE.
    I'm not sure if your decklist is the way to go, but I don't think so. You're loosing to Crypts and other stuff really easy. Also, taking out many good sorceries + Recoup (which is so good) makes the deck weaker than it could be I think. It's more like an Aggro Loam with a blacksplash just for Smallpox and without aggro :).

    But anyway, thanks to all for your ideas, I haven't thought that anyone would comment on that topic^^.

  13. #13
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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    Added 1xTranquility to my sideboard. Enchantress matchup just got a lot better.
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryPheldagrif
    The important thing is to always, always remember that while Brainstorm may require the tea-sipping socialite to think for 15 minutes as to the ideal configuration to optimize his carefully calculated 10 trillion branched decision tree of splendid victory, JUGGERNAUT ATTACKS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

  14. #14

    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda View Post
    Added 1xTranquility to my sideboard. Enchantress matchup just got a lot better.


    Reverent Silenence is better imo

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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    It's rather rare that I can't just wish for and cast that card all at once in this deck. Although you're probably right.
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryPheldagrif
    The important thing is to always, always remember that while Brainstorm may require the tea-sipping socialite to think for 15 minutes as to the ideal configuration to optimize his carefully calculated 10 trillion branched decision tree of splendid victory, JUGGERNAUT ATTACKS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

  16. #16
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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    After taking the deck to two big german tournaments (Dülmen and Iserlohn) and testing many games, I'm really happy with my latest list. In August I played in Dülmen and made a 3-2-1 finish, placing 17th out of 50 (I was running a list without Recoups -.-) and last Sunday in Iserlohn I've done the 12th place out of 59, playing 4-2 (lost to Goblins and "Thresh", won matches against 2x Fish, Zoo and FaerieStompy). But I wasn't really setisfied with the list of Iserlohn, because I played 2 Boom/Busts instead of the Raven's Crimes in my first list, which I boarded out every game. Now I'm running a list with 3 Sensei's Divining Top instead of the Booms, which results in a list of 61 cards. I also tweaked the SB a little bit. Here is the list:

    // Lands
    3 [B] Badlands
    3 [ON] Barren Moor
    2 [A] Bayou
    3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [A] Forest (1)
    1 [ON] Forgotten Cave
    3 [IN] Swamp (1)
    1 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
    4 [TE] Wasteland
    2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    2 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [IN] Mountain (4)

    // Creatures
    1 [ON] Gigapede

    // Spells
    4 [JU] Burning Wish
    2 [DIS] Crime/Punishment
    2 [TO] Devastating Dreams
    3 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    4 [SH] Mox Diamond
    3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
    4 [A] Sinkhole
    4 [TSP] Smallpox
    1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
    2 [OD] Recoup
    2 [EX] Seismic Assault
    3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [DIS] Crime/Punishment
    SB: 1 [TO] Devastating Dreams
    SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    SB: 1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
    SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
    SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
    SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
    SB: 1 [OD] Haunting Echoes
    SB: 1 [B] Regrowth
    SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
    SB: 3 [OD] Coffin Purge
    The addition of Tops was the missing piece the deck lacked of I think. With the Tops you can control your draw to screw your opponent even more or you can just dredge. I think they give us a better matchup against any deck except Fastcombo. Especially controlling the draw against control for LD and against aggro for removal is pretty neat.
    What do you think?

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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    Chalice of the Void. Yes top conflicts with it, but can you really afford to cut it entirely?
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryPheldagrif
    The important thing is to always, always remember that while Brainstorm may require the tea-sipping socialite to think for 15 minutes as to the ideal configuration to optimize his carefully calculated 10 trillion branched decision tree of splendid victory, JUGGERNAUT ATTACKS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

  18. #18

    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    What about putting all 4 Life from the Loam in the maindeck and putting a Gamble in the sideboard instead to wish for.
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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda View Post
    Chalice of the Void. Yes top conflicts with it, but can you really afford to cut it entirely?
    Actually, I think I can. The problem is that I would play them, if I have any space. Even sideboarding is quite hard for me, because I'm not always sure what to cut. What would you cut for the Chalices?

    What about putting all 4 Life from the Loam in the maindeck and putting a Gamble in the sideboard instead to wish for.
    So, you mean wishing for Gamble to tutor for Life? Mh, the idea is not bad, but I don't know what to cut, thats my problem. What do you think?


    €:// I cutted 1 Top, so I'm at 60 cards now, again.
    Last edited by Brot_Ohne_Kruste; 10-17-2008 at 10:02 AM.

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    Re: [Primer] „TMT – Graboids!“ aka Control Loam

    I played in Dülmen last sunday and took the 8th place out of 68 people with this deck, playing 5-1-1. I lost to Goyf Sligh in the first round, because I made a mistake and won against 2x 5c Zoo, Ugb Thresh, Gub Fish and Affinity. I drawed in the last round. Here is a short report:



    Round 1 vs. Goyf-Sligh:
    G1: Because of a big mistake I lost this game. I wished for a Regrowth for my Assault in my grave instead of Dreams that have could won me the game.
    G2: 4 creatures in 3 rounds aren't that good for me without any solution.
    0-2
    0-1-0

    Round 2 vs. 5c Zoo:
    G1: I controlled the game and won through Assault.
    G2: He played Grunt and Tarmogoyf and killed me.
    G3: I played Chalice on 1 and 0, which I boarded and I destroyed his lands. Then he played a Tin-Street Hooligan with Taiga and Volrath's Stronghold and targeted my Chalice on 0 (in this moment I didn't really realized, that this isn't possible), played a Crypt and removed my grave. Next round the same thing. After that I gained control of the game and the Assault won the game.
    2-3
    1-1-0

    Round 3 vs. Ugb Thresh:
    G1: He beats me a little bit with his Mongoose, I could stabilizate myself on 4 lifes with Smallpoxes, destroyed his lands and played a Gigapede, which won me the game because he hasn't got any removal for it.
    G2: After one Extirpate von my Loam and a Crypt, I destroyed his whole lands and he couldn't get into the game. After a few turns I had enough lands to play Assault and win the game.
    4-3
    2-1-0

    Round 4 gg. Ug(b) Fish:
    G1: In the first turn he played a Bird, I srewed him a little bit and let him sacrifice his Bird. After that he played a Sword of Light and Shadow with a creature in play, but a Deed for 3 destoyed them. After that, his last lands were destroyed and he scooped.
    G2: Nearly the same thing as before, just the Assault won me that game.
    6-3
    3-1-0

    Round 5 vs. 5c Zoo:
    G1: I destroyed his manabase, played a Assault, killed his creatures and then him.
    G2: He began with first turn Needle on Wasteland. On my first turn I played land, Mox, Chalice one. He looked at his hand and he doesn't seem so happy. I smallpoxed and sinkholed him a little bit, found a Wish, wished for Shattering Spree and wasted his last land. After that he scooped.
    8-3
    4-1-0

    Round 6 vs. Affinity:
    G1: LD + Deed-Effcets+Assault > Affinity
    G2: He crypted me one time, but I've got the Wish for Loam. After that the Assault was online and burned his creatures and him.
    10-3
    5-1-0

    Round 7 vs. Landstill:
    We drawed.
    10-3
    5-1-1


    I took the 8th place out of 68 because of my bad opp.-score. The first top 8 placing with this deck on an big event. I was really impressed and I'm happy now :).

    Pro:
    - the deck for its sadistic plan
    - Recoup
    - Chalices in the Board are really usefull

    Cons:
    - it was quite cold
    - two really dumb mistakes which cost me games...
    Last edited by Brot_Ohne_Kruste; 10-28-2008 at 09:15 AM.

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