http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/16548.html
It went up a day early!
The word "Tarmogoyf" does not appear until word 2549 of this article, and is mentioned only in passing : )
Hope you like it!
Holy crap! Deck suggestions from the future
Good read.
With a full playset of Mystical Tutors I feel Ponder should get at least 2 slots.
Also M.T. allows us to reduce the number of Ad Nauseam (what's the plural here?) to 3. Your "Ouch..ouch"example illustrates another pro-argument for that move.
+1 Panglossian
Did you test Orim's Chant as protection? I know it puts some strain on the manabase, but I love how it can Time Walk against aggro to preserve your life total for AN purposes (or against black decks to preserve your hand). Going with the IT/IGG/LED loop is not always possible, since that one is harder to set up (as opposed to Ad Nauseam's "any 5 mana + a card").
Also, 3 Tendrils? I like running two copies for safety, but the third seems to give very little advantages for the Flame Javelin you take when revealing with AN. I've played with Hanni's list, which only runs 1x Tendrils actually, and I haven't had problems finding it post-AN; when you're protected, you can safely fetch it with Tutor+LED in addition to Mystical+Brainstorm (plus just drawing into it with AN's ~15 cards).
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
The example where you talk about having Chrome Mox for Daze protection actually doesn't have Daze protection if you stop drawing cards there. Assuming a rational opponent doesn't Daze AdN for the hell of it, when you go to cast one of your infinitely many Cabal Rituals you get it Dazed and probably pass the turn at like 4 life.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Very neat, but 4 Mystical Tutor? Really?
Originally Posted by David Ochoa
For whatever my opinion is worth, it might just be the best card in the deck. It's damn hard to get a decent goldfish without the full playset of "EOT UNTAP OH HAI I WIN".
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
In retrospect if you play the AdN leaving Underground Sea up instead of Chrome Mox, you can Chain your moxen to generate mana with spare cards post-AdN to avoid Daze. This is fairly conditional, but seems like the best line of play (for casting AdN) knowing that you might draw blue spells and having blue or black mana is better than just one or the other.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
3 Ad nauseum, 2 tendril should be enough for the ouch part.
With sufficient tutoring (mystical) and cantrip (i personnally would run a full set of both ponder and brainstorm), this deck should be consistent enough
It was a good article.
Robert
Running off to class quickly, so I will answer the rest later:
On that Daze example, I'm guessing I'll be drawing some number of Lotus Petals or Chrome Moxes off of the AN. The Chrome Mox protects AN before and afterwards, I'll have stuff like Dark Ritual and Lotus Petal to work around it later.
Mike Bomholt and Paul Mastriano felt Ponder was ass because they're really hard to get rid of to get Hellbent with.
More to discuss!
If you're at 4 life, chances are you won't get too much of a later. I know that you're going off assuming that you will draw Dark Rits or Petals, but that seems to be one of the major problems with AdN: you don't always draw those leading to situations where Daze/Spell Snare end up mattering much more than they ever should.On that Daze example, I'm guessing I'll be drawing some number of Lotus Petals or Chrome Moxes off of the AN. The Chrome Mox protects AN before and afterwards, I'll have stuff like Dark Ritual and Lotus Petal to work around it later.
Most of the time Ponder seems to either get imprinted on Chrome Mox before AdN or find more acceleration before AdN. Afterwards it doesn't really seem to matter (although, theoretically it increases the likelihood that you can combo off without seeing Tendrils or Infernal Tutor + LED post-AdN). Ponder can also be very good in games where you are trying to go off through multiple hate, set up double Tendrils, or even make that second/third initial mana source drop.Mike Bomholt and Paul Mastriano felt Ponder was ass because they're really hard to get rid of to get Hellbent with.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Honestly I dont like the decks curve. Your options are run that curve or run a curve like .9 with
3 Ad nauseam
1 Tendrils
1 IGG
Ponder rocks because post board you find your anti hate faster, seriously saying ponder is bad is like saying brainstorm is bad, unless your going off litteraly the turn you cast brainstorm (possible) then brainstorm serves only 1 perpose that ponder doesnt and thats pitch cards back. While important Seriously why would you run 3 tendrils O.o just seems god awful.
I c h o r i d - my anti blue
Manaless Ichorid- At least its cheeper than standard.
We admit for the sake of the exercise that following is true:
Landstill > Fromat
Non-Basic Hate > Landstill
Basics > Non-Basic Hate
We can therefore logically conlude that
Basics > Format
To be plainly honest, Ponder never made the final cut based on other teammates' results. I can't speak with authority to whether it's amazing or not, just relaying what other testors found. It was in our preliminary lists but several people independently cut it. I've been seeing some lists running Top and that's kind of interesting too.
Nihil Credo, I'm glad you liked my big P-word in this article : ) Chant sits on the board, if I were deciding to run it. I'm sure it could be slotted in where Thoughtseize is or make other wiggle room for it, too. I like Abeyance since it shuts down Top, but that makes you require soooo much mana.
I explain why I like 3 Tendrils in the article. NC, it's great to have in hand when I go off and it requires a lot less work, work that we might not be able to do, to kill with. I'll say that the three Tendrils are kind of specific to this particular build, in that they're good or bad based on the other cards in the deck.
I found several times that having lots of blue cards in hand post-AN was frustrating because I could only get rid of so many with Chrome Mox and I'd need to Hellbend my Infernal Tutors.
Time to pay attention in class, back later!
Great article. Totally worth procrastinating Ochem studying for it. Now... off to study Ochem :-(.
I found the article interesting, but I was still curious about a couple of choices. Is the lack of synergy between Cabal Ritual and Chrome Mox a problem? I thought that was a significant enough drawback to not run Chrome Mox and Cabal Ritual in the version of Fetchland Tendrils, which was similar to this with some obvious differences. Did your experience show you something different?
Also I found that going Hellbent with Infernal Tutor was difficult after casting an Ad Nauseam. This is why I preferred the TES build because it could draw into Burning Wish and not worry about having to find LED as well. What's the other option for this deck? Does it have Mystical Tutor and then play something like Brainstorm? Or is that why the Tendrils count at 3 so you don't worry about using Infernal Tutor to find Tendrils of Agony?
That's one of the reasons I like going for 3 Tendrils in here. It's a bit harder to hunt some things down without stuff like Burning Wish, although the manabase is a bit easier to manage.
Cabal Ritual is there basically as a stepping-stone like Grim Monolith is in Belcher decks in Vintage, with the side benefit of being totally nuts after an AN. It's good for those times when you've got two Tendrils in hand and not quite enough to crank up the storm. Practical later-game concerns like attacks on the manabase also make it nice. I haven't found too much non-bo with Chrome Mox because it's rare to hit Threshold before going for the big one anyway.
In the followup article next month, the deck may look substantially different. It's a great time to be tinkering with Legacy decks, for sure!
Innovation? Yeah, right... so much for his title.Patrick Chapin suggested the Innovation of Angel's Grace, which certainly merits further consideration.
Anyway, it was a very nice article. This is what I was talking about when I laid my opinions about your last one. Still, the Chain of Vapor choice makes me pretty sad. Even thought Chalice will mostly be aiming at your artifacts, a 2nd Chalice will be calling 1 always. I'd rather have something like a 2nd Truth, a Rushing River or, less likely, a Wipe Away. This deck has so few lands it might actually be a bad idea to ask for UU not to win the game.
Is Ad Nauseam going to make Null Rod be a more useful card?
Keep moon-walking.
Thorn of Amethyst and Sphere of Resistance cost the same but don't turn off your own Sensei's Tops, Jittes, and random Mox Diamonds (from something like Aggro Loam). It appears that with all builds going between 12 and 15 lands, Sphere effects should be nearly as effective for the manacost.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Well, PChapin wanted a name drop in the article so I had to deliver : ) Chain was nice because it answers things early and can be a storm enabler. There have been testing games where I've had to chain my own Chrome Mox and Lotus Petal to generate more storm and kill with a Tendrils if I don't have AN or IGG in my hand. I think you want a cheap bounce spell and a good bounce spell split among your two.
The Chapin namedrop was stupid.
The article was good otherwise.
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