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Thread: [Deck] Solidarity

  1. #4081

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    There is a big difference between "losing because you didn't see a HT" and "winning with having difficulty to see a HT"

    I played 4 CW for a long time and this is definitely a consideration.
    Now CMC 3 is a lot more than CMC 1 and I hate opening hands that contains 2+ CW.

    Not finding HT will happen. Do as your guts are telling you.

    SB is flexible so to speak.

    But you need at least a few cards to deal with pesky permanents:
    - mass anti artifact to get you out of prison strategies
    - mass anti creature to get you out of Thalia + MoM + Prelate/Canonist (for example)
    - Bunch of free spells to be king of the stack
    - 2 BF (1 Coming in, the second one to be tutored)
    - 1 BSZ to deck your opponent when it matters (deck with Emrakul effect or when you need to win on the spot)
    - X anti grave strategies.

    Anti grave sideboard cards are too narrow to my taste and hinder your other MUs by a fair margin when you invest too many slots to it. I prefer hedging something else and I'm ready to give up the dredge MU.
    Others grave decks usually can be beaten on the stack so to speak.

    For sideboard tables, when you don't know what to do, follow the first advice (1 HT 1 Reset 1 Meditate out, +1 BF and +2 other "spot" cards). Almost always leave mass effect in the sideboard for tutoring purposes.

    Then you'll need to test and test again in order to determine what other cards can be switched in/out.

    For example, against tempo decks, trimming a few or most of your Remand was a popular choice in the past.
    Cutting higher CMC cards for lower ones might also be a path to take

    Against fair decks, you can question the need of 4 FOW in your deck...

    Against Control deck you may trim a fetch or an island to increase your number of business cards...

    Etc.

    Anyway my words are "no gold". Play hundreds of games and come up with your own conclusion.
    Just remember if you don't know how to board in G2. Just stay as you are. A well oiled machine will always be better than a kinky board and you will always be able to board better in G3 after seeing opposite countermeasures.

    My two cents.

    Ralf

    PS: avoid tweakening the list before at least a hundred games. Losing 5 times in a row against a certain deck doesn't mean the list is bad again this archetype. You may end up winning the next 10 games.
    This deck requires experience above all.
    That's all great advice. I've been jamming games, and I've got a couple more questions.

    1) Remand seems pretty decent against tempo actually, as you can Remand your spell in response to a Force/other hard counter magic. Do we want to cut Remand as it takes a lot of mana to cast a spell, Remand it, and cast again? Furthermore, I feel like vs fast or tempo decks, we want to cut an island, as we don't have the time we need to set up more than 4-5 lands in play and/or want more business spells. On the other hand, vs control, I both want to keep at 19 lands and go down to 18 as we want business spells, but we also want to build up a fair amount of lands. If we can do this on 1 less island, why are we running 19 in the first place?

    2) Do we still want that Snap in the SB, if we are on the no Snappy list? I can see why its nice as its a free/mana generating out to problematic creatures, but I'm not sure if something like another Echoing Truth or a Chain of Vapor is better. And unless you wish for it, only having 1 seems a little... inconsequential to board in.

  2. #4082

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    1. To me, that doesnít sound great at all. Tempo is trying to spend all their mana to disrupt us and put a clock on. 2-mana counter to bounce our spell from disruption feeds their game plan. And spending 2 mana to delay their clock is ok, but I suspect itís too much. A good way to think about it is, they have a delver in play, doing its beats. Youíre on say 11 life, and you draw a remand. Is that good or bad?
    All they wanna do is protect their delver at all costs, and if they see an opening, drop another threat. Is remand good against that would you say?

    The snap i tend to think of as being like a charm. Itís more flexible, having multiple effects stapled together, but overall as a card, itís weaker. Itís by no means bad tho, but Iíd wager youíre more likely to wish for a írealí bounce spell or a real untap card. Not one that half-heartedly does a bit of both. If you run SCM, that might be different.

    Iíve started to mess about with the reversal, mission briefing builds, dropping the flash of insights. Itís good fun, but I never feel that Ďsafeí with it, cuz itís up to chance what I end up drawing when going off. Needs more testing I think.

    In terms of grave hate, I have a 1-of ravenous trap and 1 surgical as a wish target. Itís not very good, but Iíve used it against emrakuls before too. SCM could be good too as bridge hate.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  3. #4083

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    1. To me, that doesnít sound great at all. Tempo is trying to spend all their mana to disrupt us and put a clock on. 2-mana counter to bounce our spell from disruption feeds their game plan. And spending 2 mana to delay their clock is ok, but I suspect itís too much. A good way to think about it is, they have a delver in play, doing its beats. Youíre on say 11 life, and you draw a remand. Is that good or bad?
    All they wanna do is protect their delver at all costs, and if they see an opening, drop another threat. Is remand good against that would you say?

    The snap i tend to think of as being like a charm. Itís more flexible, having multiple effects stapled together, but overall as a card, itís weaker. Itís by no means bad tho, but Iíd wager youíre more likely to wish for a írealí bounce spell or a real untap card. Not one that half-heartedly does a bit of both. If you run SCM, that might be different.

    Iíve started to mess about with the reversal, mission briefing builds, dropping the flash of insights. Itís good fun, but I never feel that Ďsafeí with it, cuz itís up to chance what I end up drawing when going off. Needs more testing I think.

    In terms of grave hate, I have a 1-of ravenous trap and 1 surgical as a wish target. Itís not very good, but Iíve used it against emrakuls before too. SCM could be good too as bridge hate.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That makes sense. I had a feeling the reasoning was going to be something like that, it just felt weird to cut interaction vs a Tempo deck.

    What are your thoughts about when to cut an Island? Vs fast decks I feel like we donít have the time to build up a large mana base, and vs slower decks we want more interaction spells, so I donít know if 19 is the right number of islands and that we should be cutting one in specific match ups, or if we should be simply running 18, or if we should hardly ever cut an island.

    Reversal has felt great in testing, itís hardly ever been a dead card and the extra interaction has been great. Furthermore, it really pushes that ďmastery of the stackĒ aspect of the deck, as it lets you ďmove aroundĒ instants and sorceries on the stack while buying them back to your hand. For example, if you cast a spell that they try to counter, and you go off in response to the counter, a Narsets Reversal down the road letís you resolve that spell while putting it back into your hand, giving you more fuel and ignoring the counter at the same time. You say that Reversal builds rely more on chance while going off, and while that is true, Reversal can let you buyback card draw or untap spells to continue your combo. So, reversal can be used to further the combo instead of just interaction.

  4. #4084

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Excile2127 View Post
    That makes sense. I had a feeling the reasoning was going to be something like that, it just felt weird to cut interaction vs a Tempo deck.

    What are your thoughts about when to cut an Island? Vs fast decks I feel like we donít have the time to build up a large mana base, and vs slower decks we want more interaction spells, so I donít know if 19 is the right number of islands and that we should be cutting one in specific match ups, or if we should be simply running 18, or if we should hardly ever cut an island.

    Reversal has felt great in testing, itís hardly ever been a dead card and the extra interaction has been great. Furthermore, it really pushes that ďmastery of the stackĒ aspect of the deck, as it lets you ďmove aroundĒ instants and sorceries on the stack while buying them back to your hand. For example, if you cast a spell that they try to counter, and you go off in response to the counter, a Narsets Reversal down the road letís you resolve that spell while putting it back into your hand, giving you more fuel and ignoring the counter at the same time. You say that Reversal builds rely more on chance while going off, and while that is true, Reversal can let you buyback card draw or untap spells to continue your combo. So, reversal can be used to further the combo instead of just interaction.
    I like reversal, though Iím not sure how many I should be playing. So far, Iíve got 2, and have been alright with it.

    The one card that I think you might wanna look at is unsubstantiate. Itís like a remand, except you donít draw, but it can counter uncounterable stuff, AND can bounce a guy. Beat a eidolon without needing to waste a wish. Especially if youíre not going to go SCM+snap, having main board bounce can be good, especially if you end up being unable to counter a prelate or eidolon or canonist.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

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