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Thread: [Deck] Solidarity

  1. #4081

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    There is a big difference between "losing because you didn't see a HT" and "winning with having difficulty to see a HT"

    I played 4 CW for a long time and this is definitely a consideration.
    Now CMC 3 is a lot more than CMC 1 and I hate opening hands that contains 2+ CW.

    Not finding HT will happen. Do as your guts are telling you.

    SB is flexible so to speak.

    But you need at least a few cards to deal with pesky permanents:
    - mass anti artifact to get you out of prison strategies
    - mass anti creature to get you out of Thalia + MoM + Prelate/Canonist (for example)
    - Bunch of free spells to be king of the stack
    - 2 BF (1 Coming in, the second one to be tutored)
    - 1 BSZ to deck your opponent when it matters (deck with Emrakul effect or when you need to win on the spot)
    - X anti grave strategies.

    Anti grave sideboard cards are too narrow to my taste and hinder your other MUs by a fair margin when you invest too many slots to it. I prefer hedging something else and I'm ready to give up the dredge MU.
    Others grave decks usually can be beaten on the stack so to speak.

    For sideboard tables, when you don't know what to do, follow the first advice (1 HT 1 Reset 1 Meditate out, +1 BF and +2 other "spot" cards). Almost always leave mass effect in the sideboard for tutoring purposes.

    Then you'll need to test and test again in order to determine what other cards can be switched in/out.

    For example, against tempo decks, trimming a few or most of your Remand was a popular choice in the past.
    Cutting higher CMC cards for lower ones might also be a path to take

    Against fair decks, you can question the need of 4 FOW in your deck...

    Against Control deck you may trim a fetch or an island to increase your number of business cards...

    Etc.

    Anyway my words are "no gold". Play hundreds of games and come up with your own conclusion.
    Just remember if you don't know how to board in G2. Just stay as you are. A well oiled machine will always be better than a kinky board and you will always be able to board better in G3 after seeing opposite countermeasures.

    My two cents.

    Ralf

    PS: avoid tweakening the list before at least a hundred games. Losing 5 times in a row against a certain deck doesn't mean the list is bad again this archetype. You may end up winning the next 10 games.
    This deck requires experience above all.
    That's all great advice. I've been jamming games, and I've got a couple more questions.

    1) Remand seems pretty decent against tempo actually, as you can Remand your spell in response to a Force/other hard counter magic. Do we want to cut Remand as it takes a lot of mana to cast a spell, Remand it, and cast again? Furthermore, I feel like vs fast or tempo decks, we want to cut an island, as we don't have the time we need to set up more than 4-5 lands in play and/or want more business spells. On the other hand, vs control, I both want to keep at 19 lands and go down to 18 as we want business spells, but we also want to build up a fair amount of lands. If we can do this on 1 less island, why are we running 19 in the first place?

    2) Do we still want that Snap in the SB, if we are on the no Snappy list? I can see why its nice as its a free/mana generating out to problematic creatures, but I'm not sure if something like another Echoing Truth or a Chain of Vapor is better. And unless you wish for it, only having 1 seems a little... inconsequential to board in.

  2. #4082

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    1. To me, that doesnít sound great at all. Tempo is trying to spend all their mana to disrupt us and put a clock on. 2-mana counter to bounce our spell from disruption feeds their game plan. And spending 2 mana to delay their clock is ok, but I suspect itís too much. A good way to think about it is, they have a delver in play, doing its beats. Youíre on say 11 life, and you draw a remand. Is that good or bad?
    All they wanna do is protect their delver at all costs, and if they see an opening, drop another threat. Is remand good against that would you say?

    The snap i tend to think of as being like a charm. Itís more flexible, having multiple effects stapled together, but overall as a card, itís weaker. Itís by no means bad tho, but Iíd wager youíre more likely to wish for a írealí bounce spell or a real untap card. Not one that half-heartedly does a bit of both. If you run SCM, that might be different.

    Iíve started to mess about with the reversal, mission briefing builds, dropping the flash of insights. Itís good fun, but I never feel that Ďsafeí with it, cuz itís up to chance what I end up drawing when going off. Needs more testing I think.

    In terms of grave hate, I have a 1-of ravenous trap and 1 surgical as a wish target. Itís not very good, but Iíve used it against emrakuls before too. SCM could be good too as bridge hate.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  3. #4083

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    1. To me, that doesnít sound great at all. Tempo is trying to spend all their mana to disrupt us and put a clock on. 2-mana counter to bounce our spell from disruption feeds their game plan. And spending 2 mana to delay their clock is ok, but I suspect itís too much. A good way to think about it is, they have a delver in play, doing its beats. Youíre on say 11 life, and you draw a remand. Is that good or bad?
    All they wanna do is protect their delver at all costs, and if they see an opening, drop another threat. Is remand good against that would you say?

    The snap i tend to think of as being like a charm. Itís more flexible, having multiple effects stapled together, but overall as a card, itís weaker. Itís by no means bad tho, but Iíd wager youíre more likely to wish for a írealí bounce spell or a real untap card. Not one that half-heartedly does a bit of both. If you run SCM, that might be different.

    Iíve started to mess about with the reversal, mission briefing builds, dropping the flash of insights. Itís good fun, but I never feel that Ďsafeí with it, cuz itís up to chance what I end up drawing when going off. Needs more testing I think.

    In terms of grave hate, I have a 1-of ravenous trap and 1 surgical as a wish target. Itís not very good, but Iíve used it against emrakuls before too. SCM could be good too as bridge hate.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That makes sense. I had a feeling the reasoning was going to be something like that, it just felt weird to cut interaction vs a Tempo deck.

    What are your thoughts about when to cut an Island? Vs fast decks I feel like we donít have the time to build up a large mana base, and vs slower decks we want more interaction spells, so I donít know if 19 is the right number of islands and that we should be cutting one in specific match ups, or if we should be simply running 18, or if we should hardly ever cut an island.

    Reversal has felt great in testing, itís hardly ever been a dead card and the extra interaction has been great. Furthermore, it really pushes that ďmastery of the stackĒ aspect of the deck, as it lets you ďmove aroundĒ instants and sorceries on the stack while buying them back to your hand. For example, if you cast a spell that they try to counter, and you go off in response to the counter, a Narsets Reversal down the road letís you resolve that spell while putting it back into your hand, giving you more fuel and ignoring the counter at the same time. You say that Reversal builds rely more on chance while going off, and while that is true, Reversal can let you buyback card draw or untap spells to continue your combo. So, reversal can be used to further the combo instead of just interaction.

  4. #4084

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Excile2127 View Post
    That makes sense. I had a feeling the reasoning was going to be something like that, it just felt weird to cut interaction vs a Tempo deck.

    What are your thoughts about when to cut an Island? Vs fast decks I feel like we donít have the time to build up a large mana base, and vs slower decks we want more interaction spells, so I donít know if 19 is the right number of islands and that we should be cutting one in specific match ups, or if we should be simply running 18, or if we should hardly ever cut an island.

    Reversal has felt great in testing, itís hardly ever been a dead card and the extra interaction has been great. Furthermore, it really pushes that ďmastery of the stackĒ aspect of the deck, as it lets you ďmove aroundĒ instants and sorceries on the stack while buying them back to your hand. For example, if you cast a spell that they try to counter, and you go off in response to the counter, a Narsets Reversal down the road letís you resolve that spell while putting it back into your hand, giving you more fuel and ignoring the counter at the same time. You say that Reversal builds rely more on chance while going off, and while that is true, Reversal can let you buyback card draw or untap spells to continue your combo. So, reversal can be used to further the combo instead of just interaction.
    I like reversal, though Iím not sure how many I should be playing. So far, Iíve got 2, and have been alright with it.

    The one card that I think you might wanna look at is unsubstantiate. Itís like a remand, except you donít draw, but it can counter uncounterable stuff, AND can bounce a guy. Beat a eidolon without needing to waste a wish. Especially if youíre not going to go SCM+snap, having main board bounce can be good, especially if you end up being unable to counter a prelate or eidolon or canonist.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  5. #4085

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    I like reversal, though Iím not sure how many I should be playing. So far, Iíve got 2, and have been alright with it.

    The one card that I think you might wanna look at is unsubstantiate. Itís like a remand, except you donít draw, but it can counter uncounterable stuff, AND can bounce a guy. Beat a eidolon without needing to waste a wish. Especially if youíre not going to go SCM+snap, having main board bounce can be good, especially if you end up being unable to counter a prelate or eidolon or canonist.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    We talked about this on the discord, but I'll summarize for the people here:

    I think Unsub is definitely worth a spot in the deck over a number of Remands if we aren't playing Snap + Snappy MD. However, I think it shouldn't replace Remand *entirely*. Its nice to have an out, but despite how having the ability to bounce a creature or uncounterable spell is good, Remand is much better early in the game when you are sculpting your hand, and the card draw really helps when you Mission Briefing something to the top of your deck. Therefore, I think a 1/2 split of Unsub/Remand is beneficial. It also helps vs naming effects, like Cabal Therapy and Surgical Extraction. Thoughts?

    On another note, what is our plan vs Nars3t and T3feri? Thankfully, we have enough mana to Remand them most times, but both cards have INSANE value vs us if they ever land. Narset shuts down our ability to search through our deck, and T3feri both kills our ability to fight on and manipulate the stack while also killing all of our Resets. Do these cards warrant any changes to the deck? Does anybody have any outs besides Remand/FoW or Wishing for a bounce spell?

    EDIT: I have comboed through a Narset vs Miracles, but even though I had a killer hand, it was still extremely difficult. I ended up fighting through counters, producing a lot of mana, using the 1 draw on their turn to draw a Wish after surveiling it to the top of the deck with Briefing, wishing for and casting bounce, and then chaining Meditates until I had enough storm. However, I can't see how we can possibly combo off vs a Miracle player with a T3feri in play. If they have even a single counter, they can stop us from bouncing him. I think we either need an uncounterable answer to T3feri, or we need to fight him on the stack before he resolves.

    EDIT 2: Hex Parasite is a janky answer to PWs that we can deploy t1, and have it sit there until we need it. However, that both doesn't fit the theme of Solidarity and takes up too many SB slots. I think its time for the return of Wipe Away. This is a clean answer to T3feri that will definitely resolve. Also, its 3 mana, which is a good CMC for Counterbalance as well. Thoughts?

  6. #4086
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Excile2127 View Post
    We talked about this on the discord, but I'll summarize for the people here:

    I think Unsub is definitely worth a spot in the deck over a number of Remands if we aren't playing Snap + Snappy MD. However, I think it shouldn't replace Remand *entirely*. Its nice to have an out, but despite how having the ability to bounce a creature or uncounterable spell is good, Remand is much better early in the game when you are sculpting your hand, and the card draw really helps when you Mission Briefing something to the top of your deck. Therefore, I think a 1/2 split of Unsub/Remand is beneficial. It also helps vs naming effects, like Cabal Therapy and Surgical Extraction. Thoughts?

    On another note, what is our plan vs Nars3t and T3feri? Thankfully, we have enough mana to Remand them most times, but both cards have INSANE value vs us if they ever land. Narset shuts down our ability to search through our deck, and T3feri both kills our ability to fight on and manipulate the stack while also killing all of our Resets. Do these cards warrant any changes to the deck? Does anybody have any outs besides Remand/FoW or Wishing for a bounce spell?

    EDIT: I have comboed through a Narset vs Miracles, but even though I had a killer hand, it was still extremely difficult. I ended up fighting through counters, producing a lot of mana, using the 1 draw on their turn to draw a Wish after surveiling it to the top of the deck with Briefing, wishing for and casting bounce, and then chaining Meditates until I had enough storm. However, I can't see how we can possibly combo off vs a Miracle player with a T3feri in play. If they have even a single counter, they can stop us from bouncing him. I think we either need an uncounterable answer to T3feri, or we need to fight him on the stack before he resolves.

    EDIT 2: Hex Parasite is a janky answer to PWs that we can deploy t1, and have it sit there until we need it. However, that both doesn't fit the theme of Solidarity and takes up too many SB slots. I think its time for the return of Wipe Away. This is a clean answer to T3feri that will definitely resolve. Also, its 3 mana, which is a good CMC for Counterbalance as well. Thoughts?

    Both are a pain but both cost 3 mana meaning either your opponent is going for it (full tap on T3) or he elects to play it "protected" and might wait til T4 or 5.
    If they wait, you should in a position where you can just go off in response to it (T4 or T5).

    Even with a wipe away in the board, resolving your CW will be almost impossible (except if you CW with the PW on the stack but it means you have 3 mana in play as well).

    Anyway if you really think you need a wipe away in the board it can easily replace the "Snap" slot.

    I ended up cutting Wipe away when CB got nerfed.

    *****

    I truly believe there is no other way than fighting on the stack (meta wise). Your SB should be tuned towards that end at the moment. Winning the stack war is, I believe, what will get you there.
    When REB, Pyro, Fluster are flying all over the place, Mindbreak trap is a powerhouse.

    NB: MDT doesn't counter. It exiles and I caught off guard a few players.

    Ofc you will be in a sad position when facing Cavern of Souls' deck but through all my testing, those decks are definitely beatable with just a mass bounce played at the key turn.


    *****

    Miracle is a hell of a matchup. Really skill intensive. It is better since TOP is banned and that there is no more CB x4.
    There is no easy matchup to be honest and the fact that you managed winning facing a Narset does prove only one thing: you still can win...
    A resolved Teferi is "gameover" though. If I am in G1, I wouldn't lose time (and info) and go straight to G2. I'm here to win a match.

    My two cents.

    Ralf

  7. #4087
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Excile2127 View Post
    That makes sense. I had a feeling the reasoning was going to be something like that, it just felt weird to cut interaction vs a Tempo deck.

    What are your thoughts about when to cut an Island? Vs fast decks I feel like we donít have the time to build up a large mana base, and vs slower decks we want more interaction spells, so I donít know if 19 is the right number of islands and that we should be cutting one in specific match ups, or if we should be simply running 18, or if we should hardly ever cut an island.

    Reversal has felt great in testing, itís hardly ever been a dead card and the extra interaction has been great. Furthermore, it really pushes that ďmastery of the stackĒ aspect of the deck, as it lets you ďmove aroundĒ instants and sorceries on the stack while buying them back to your hand. For example, if you cast a spell that they try to counter, and you go off in response to the counter, a Narsets Reversal down the road letís you resolve that spell while putting it back into your hand, giving you more fuel and ignoring the counter at the same time. You say that Reversal builds rely more on chance while going off, and while that is true, Reversal can let you buyback card draw or untap spells to continue your combo. So, reversal can be used to further the combo instead of just interaction.
    Usual stock list played 18 lands.
    I chose to play 19 (my curve is also slightly higher).

    With 18 lands, you have
    - 7 % to have no land in your opening hand
    - 24.5 % to have just 1 land

    -> it means you have a 31,5 % odd to not have 2 lands in your opening hand

    With 19 lands you have:
    - 5.80 % to have no land
    - 22.1 % to only have 1

    -> it means you have a 27,8 % odd to not have 2 lands in your opening hand

    That hedge might be small but considering we play 12 cantrips which 4 are CMC 2 (Impulse), I prefer putting all my chances to get there even if another business spell would increase a bit my chances not to fizzle during the combo turn.
    Otherwise, it also hedges a bit vs chalice deck when sometimes you cannot FOW a chalice@1 on T1 (shutting down 8 cantrips and hindering your land drops by the same occasion...)

    I usually snap keep hands with 2+ lands and shave most of the one landers...

    ********

    This is only based on my personal experience. I'm no one to say that I'm right or wrong.
    I've just lost too many games because I missed f.cking land drops.

    But by nature, we tend to only remember games lost when we flooded...but at least I had a chance to combo !!!

    But if you keep track of your games, maybe, you'll draw the same conclusion ^^.

    *******

    My approach is different from yours:

    1) VS Tempo: I don't want to dig for lands. I want to assemble the combo piece I need to make a quick attempt (T4 or T5).They will usually put you under pressure (Delver T1 for example). So I have to naturally "draw" lands.

    2) VS Control: the game is going to take forever. So not only you will have more lands in play than vs Tempo but you can dig for lands if you want. Expect some "draw" go.

    That's why I'm suggesting to cut a land vs control.

    PS: you can also take another route knowing you'll play the long game. Cut 2+ High tide / 1+ Reset / 1+ opt / 1 Meditate + your usual suspects -> you'll take longer to assemble your combo but you will have plenty to fight on the stack (and less dead cards against a resolved CB). A resolved Meditate is what will get you there against Miracle most of the time.
    You side in Flusters / MBTs /1 BF /1 BSZ
    Last edited by Ralf; 07-19-2019 at 02:05 PM.

  8. #4088

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    Usual stock list played 18 lands.
    I chose to play 19 (my curve is also slightly higher).

    With 18 lands, you have
    - 7 % to have no land in your opening hand
    - 24.5 % to have just 1 land

    -> it means you have a 31,5 % odd to not have 2 lands in your opening hand

    With 19 lands you have:
    - 5.80 % to have no land
    - 22.1 % to only have 1

    -> it means you have a 27,8 % odd to not have 2 lands in your opening hand

    That hedge might be small but considering we play 12 cantrips which 4 are CMC 2 (Impulse), I prefer putting all my chances to get there even if another business spell would increase a bit my chances not to fizzle during the combo turn.
    Otherwise, it also hedges a bit vs chalice deck when sometimes you cannot FOW a chalice@1 on T1 (shutting down 8 cantrips and hindering your land drops by the same occasion...)

    I usually snap keep hands with 2+ lands and shave most of the one landers...

    ********

    This is only based on my personal experience. I'm no one to say that I'm right or wrong.
    I've just lost too many games because I missed f.cking land drops.

    But by nature, we tend to only remember games lost when we flooded...but at least I had a chance to combo !!!

    But if you keep track of your games, maybe, you'll draw the same conclusion ^^.

    *******

    My approach is different from yours:

    1) VS Tempo: I don't want to dig for lands. I want to assemble the combo piece I need to make a quick attempt (T4 or T5).They will usually put you under pressure (Delver T1 for example). So I have to naturally "draw" lands.

    2) VS Control: the game is going to take forever. So not only you will have more lands in play than vs Tempo but you can dig for lands if you want. Expect some "draw" go.

    That's why I'm suggesting to cut a land vs control.

    PS: you can also take another route knowing you'll play the long game. Cut 2+ High tide / 1+ Reset / 1+ opt / 1 Meditate + your usual suspects -> you'll take longer to assemble your combo but you will have plenty to fight on the stack (and less dead cards against a resolved CB). A resolved Meditate is what will get you there against Miracle most of the time.
    You side in Flusters / MBTs /1 BF /1 BSZ
    Thanks Ralf! All of this is great advice, I appreciate you showing me the ropes.

    Registration for the league I'm in ends in like an hour, and I'm submitting your list with the Reversals with a couple of tweaks.

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Cunning Wish
    2 Flooded Strand
    4 Force of Will
    4 High Tide
    4 Impulse
    11 Island
    4 Meditate
    4 Mission Briefing
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Narset's Reversal
    4 Opt
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Remand
    4 Reset
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Unsubstantiate

    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    2 Brain Freeze
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Engulf the Shore
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Force of Negation
    3 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Ravenous Trap
    1 Rebuild
    1 Turnabout
    1 Wipe Away

    First tweak I made was evening out the fetches. This league is purely open list, so I'm not surprising anyone with those Flooded Strands.

    Second tweak I made was switching those Turnabouts into Mission Briefings. Briefing and Turnabout both fill the same role, a slightly more expensive Reset with fringe upsides. I like Briefing more in this build as I was missing the amount of recursion I had with the Snapcasters, and it really smooths out my pre-combo and combo turns. You said you wanted Reversal over Snappy as you didn't really use snappy prior to the combo turn, but Briefing can be used T3+ as an expensive but highly filtering cantrip if you reuse an Opt or BS with it.

    Lastly in the main deck, since I don't have Snap anymore, I turned 2 Remands into 2 Unsubstantiates. This change felt the most natural, as the card draw from Remand is great, but having outs to resolved creatures without having to wish for them is great too.

    In the sideboard, I turned the Pact of Negation into a Force of Negation, as Pact only felt worth it to side in vs high-counterspell decks, as you only can use it in the lategame or on the turn you are comboing off. Force fills a similar role at a higher cost, but can be hardcast and used before the combo turn. Additionally, Snap was replaced by Wipe Away for dealing with Narsets, DnT boards with Mom, and other scenarios when something HAS to go, but I have to fight through permission.

    Did I do anything really bad? The only changes I'm unsure about were the Turnabouts into Briefings, and the Snap into Wipe Away. Everything else felt like almost all upside, and little downside.

  9. #4089

    [Deck] Solidarity

    Turnabouts has at least 1 major advantage that reset/briefing doesnít; tapping down attackers for lethal, tapping down opposing lands to combo smoothly.

    Just so you know.

    But I think it looks good. Iím a big fan of unsubstantiate

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  10. #4090
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    You should be good !!!

    Keep us posted.

    I'll edit this message in a bit to add a few other comments.

    *****

    Edit

    I like what you did and here are a few thoughts:

    1) 4 Mission will improve your odds during the combo turn. It will even make for the CA loss of 2 remands for 2 unsubstantiate. You should reach almost 99 % odds not to fizzle with 4 lands in play.
    2) However it makes your deck more dependant on your graveyard. Mission is better than Snap as it doesn't target but still you might be a bit more affected by grave hate postboard.
    3) Cutting Turnabout will decrease your entire curve which is a good thing.
    4) Turnabout is everything Schweinefettmann said but also it is a "mean" to launch the combo DURING your turn. I like having this opportunity. I guess you still have it through Wish. But this is to be considered.
    5) Fetch split is whatever you want even if bluffing being on Miracle can work sometimes (i.e: your oppo might hesitate to overextend fearing a terminus). In a league where everyone knows what you are playing, bluff wouldn't work.

    Thank you for your inputs as I will definitely test the changes you made on my side.

  11. #4091

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    Turnabouts has at least 1 major advantage that reset/briefing doesnít; tapping down attackers for lethal, tapping down opposing lands to combo smoothly.

    Just so you know.

    But I think it looks good. Iím a big fan of unsubstantiate

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You should be good !!!

    Keep us posted.

    I'll edit this message in a bit to add a few other comments.

    *****

    Edit

    I like what you did and here are a few thoughts:

    1) 4 Mission will improve your odds during the combo turn. It will even make for the CA loss of 2 remands for 2 unsubstantiate. You should reach almost 99 % odds not to fizzle with 4 lands in play.
    2) However it makes your deck more dependant on your graveyard. Mission is better than Snap as it doesn't target but still you might be a bit more affected by grave hate postboard.
    3) Cutting Turnabout will decrease your entire curve which is a good thing.
    4) Turnabout is everything Schweinefettmann said but also it is a "mean" to launch the combo DURING your turn. I like having this opportunity. I guess you still have it through Wish. But this is to be considered.
    5) Fetch split is whatever you want even if bluffing being on Miracle can work sometimes (i.e: your oppo might hesitate to overextend fearing a terminus). In a league where everyone knows what you are playing, bluff wouldn't work.

    Thank you for your inputs as I will definitely test the changes you made on my side.
    Thanks guys! Iím glad I didnít make a critical mistake on the list I submitted. Tapping down lands with turnabout seems really difficult, as you would need 6 lands at the least to cast turnabout, go to next phase, cast HT, and then cast Reset, and on top of that you would probably need more untap effects to have enough mana to combo. Additionally, I feel like it would just be an expensive counter bait. As for going off on your turn, unless you ran 3+ turnabout, or had a lot of lands, that seems really difficult. I suppose itís possible and itís nice to have options though. I can see where that would come in handy too, vs DnT in response to a Port activation or 2 on your upkeep. As for tapping down attackerís, unless you had something else to do with your turn like Impulse or Opt, Turnabout just draws you a card and letís you play a land and lets your opponent take an extra turn. Still, it could be worth it if you need just a little more time/lands to go off. I will keep you posted and write a report on each match of the league.

  12. #4092

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Excile2127 View Post
    Thanks guys! Iím glad I didnít make a critical mistake on the list I submitted. Tapping down lands with turnabout seems really difficult, as you would need 6 lands at the least to cast turnabout, go to next phase, cast HT, and then cast Reset, and on top of that you would probably need more untap effects to have enough mana to combo. Additionally, I feel like it would just be an expensive counter bait. As for going off on your turn, unless you ran 3+ turnabout, or had a lot of lands, that seems really difficult. I suppose itís possible and itís nice to have options though. I can see where that would come in handy too, vs DnT in response to a Port activation or 2 on your upkeep. As for tapping down attackerís, unless you had something else to do with your turn like Impulse or Opt, Turnabout just draws you a card and letís you play a land and lets your opponent take an extra turn. Still, it could be worth it if you need just a little more time/lands to go off. I will keep you posted and write a report on each match of the league.
    What u mention with dnt, applies to most aggro strategies. Itís Ďjustí an extra land drop + card is exactly what Iíd want when playing this deck. The longer the game goes, the higher the chances for a win for us.

    Itís been something that I think is a nice and flexible card that allows us to react to the situation - but we pay for it with its higher cost.

    That being said, itís old tech, and possibly not relevant anymore. Iím just stubborn, i guess.

    Thereís no real right answer unfortunately. I look forward to hearing your success with the build!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  13. #4093

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    What u mention with dnt, applies to most aggro strategies. Itís Ďjustí an extra land drop + card is exactly what Iíd want when playing this deck. The longer the game goes, the higher the chances for a win for us.

    Itís been something that I think is a nice and flexible card that allows us to react to the situation - but we pay for it with its higher cost.

    That being said, itís old tech, and possibly not relevant anymore. Iím just stubborn, i guess.

    Thereís no real right answer unfortunately. I look forward to hearing your success with the build!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I agree, but it does given them another turn to play disruption. I like it as a 2 of in the board in the face of grave hate as an alternative to Briefing.

    Iím thinking of cutting a single Briefing to add a single Turnabout to the main, but Iíll play this league with 4 Briefing first before making any more changes. Briefing does also play well with Reversal, as itís a lot easier to Reversal a Briefing than it is to Reversal a Turnabout.

  14. #4094

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    //deck-1
    4 Ancient Tomb
    1 Blast Zone
    4 Cavern of Souls
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Eye of Ugin
    3 Mishra's Factory
    4 Wasteland
    4 Eldrazi Mimic
    2 Endbringer
    4 Endless One
    4 Matter Reshaper
    4 Reality Smasher
    2 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    2 Walking Ballista
    2 Dismember
    2 Warping Wail
    4 Chalice of the Void

    //sideboard-1
    1 All Is Dust
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Thorn of Amethyst
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    So, this is my round 1 opponent. I practically wrote an essay on what I thought about this exact match up on the discord, but to boil it down, G1 he has a fast clock with Challice and TKS coming down early to disrupt me. If I can hold those off and make it to turn 4 with a decent hand, I should be able to win. G2 he cuts dead or slow cards, and gets Leylines (maybe, if he is smart) and Thorn of Amethyst while maintaining a fast clock. My current SB plan is to trim 2 Briefing (if Leyline), cut the Remand, and get Turnabout + both bounce spells to fight through the hate permanents. I want Force to deal with the must answer cards. Additionally, I might cut 2 Unsub or 2 more Briefings to get Rebuild and Force of Negation. Iím keeping Reversal in to combo through Challice on 1 and to combo through a Leyline shutting down my Briefings. Any thoughts on what I should be doing or be doing differently?

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