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Thread: [Deck] Solidarity

  1. #4021

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    Hello,

    With the new toy, here is where I am at the moment.

    9 Island
    9 Fetch
    3 Tropical Island

    3 Snapcaster
    3 Mission Briefing

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Impulse
    4 Reset
    4 Cunning Wish
    4 FOW

    3 Meditate
    3 Growth Spiral
    3 High Tide

    2 Snap
    2 Fluster

    Sideboard

    1 Fluster
    1 High Tide
    1 Meditate
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Snap
    1 Rebuild
    1 BSZ
    1 Ravenous Trap
    1 Engulf the Shore
    1 Hunting Pack
    1 Broken Bond
    2 Surgical
    2 Brain Freeze

    A few explanations:

    1) I went to 21 lands and cut all the bad 1 mana cantrips. I'm still pondering on the fetch numbers/island/tropical
    2) I play a mix of 3 SCM/Mission but i could see playing 4 SCM/2
    3) Growth Spiral is busted. Period. I killed a few times T2.
    4) Hunting pack is real. Especially against aggro deck.
    5) I've replaced Evacuation with Engulf the Shore. You won't hit everything but usually when you wish for it, the Engulf's condition doesn't ever matter; while 1 mana matters a lot
    6) I still don't like Fluster MD but this is a concession to beat tempo decks G1. We can also play 1 fluster/ 3 snap instead (and make the swap SB). I just like having access to an untap effect with a wish.
    7) the fourth High tide ended up in the board so that we have virtually 7 high tide in the deck
    8) Putting HT in the SB meant going up to 4 cunning wish MD
    9) SB is still under testing

    Consequence:

    1) You dig less for mana. Opening hands are more stable
    2) The deck can combo sooner. Growth spiral is one card we were waiting for. I've chained 3 Growth spiral quite a lot (during the combo turn) thanks to briefing and SCM for billions mana. Also T3 -> 4 mana is no longer a dream (if you played GS EOT having the third land in hand).
    3) Hunting pack is a kill if you can make 10 mana (8 blue 2 green) (wish+HP= 10 mana). It is really good against aggro deck and quite easy to achieve.
    4) Playing Trop does expose you to wasteland but usually when it happened, it meant I played a GS before (otherwise don't fetch your trop)

    Advice: Give it a good spin (10 games) and you should see what I'm talking about.

    It is hard to speak about resiliency and speed without having other pairs of eyes.

    Happy testing.

    Ralf
    I'd forgotten to mention that i myself had tried growth spiral (4 GS main, 2 breeding pool, 8 fetches, 10 islands), and i felt like it was usually a win-more rather than getting me forward from behind. giving wastes a target doesn't feel good, but maybe growth spiral would be worth it. i can definitely see a situation where i can: opponent wastes me, i high tide, growth spiral, snapcaster growth spiral, snap snapcaster, and go off over the wasteland activation (that can be done, right?)
    I might just be playing the deck wrong, and should really remove the opts like you did. opts didn't ever feel that effective during the setup, and only used mid-combo to be pitched to FoW. I'll have to goldfish it a bit more, and try to force myself to go off turn 2-3 more to see how my numbers build up.

    some questions about your list though:
    1. broken bond? it's a 2cmc sorcery..? i'm sure you've got a brilliant plan for it (and/or the land drop is really that worth it)
    2. How does hunting pack work? i see you also run meditate, and i usually end up shooting off 2 or 3 and snapcaster/mission briefing them off again, which means we're skipping 3-5 turns when going off..? Or are we using it for instant blockers?
    3. Again, your build is quite different from mine, but I had tried a (very old) version that ran 3 high tides and 3 resets, 2 turnabouts main with 4 wishes as a hedge against surgical, and being able to search up whatever piece i need at that time. I felt like i was relying way too much on the wish at that point, but maybe it isn't so bad if we only need it for high tides. That being said, reaching 3 mana the turn before i need to go off to get my high tide feels like a real stretch.
    4. no brain freeze main! In order to go off, you need to make cunning wish at least twice unless you really plan for it. i wish i had that sort of balls to really go all in without the threat main..
    5. never saw that 4 mana evacuation; it'd be more than enough to empty the DnT player's board i think.

    Thanks so much for your pointers though; I'm gonna re-test growth spiral and make more space for SCM/mission briefing+snap. I'm really gonna have to test before i take out a mortgage to get those tropics (i picked this deck up because i thought mono-blue would be cheap!).

    What's your take on the worst matchups for this deck would you say (or archetypes of decks)? i never feel like it's ever worse (or at least it SHOULDN'T be worse than) (45:55)Ī10 based off pilot skill (and nearing 65:35 against fair decks), but i want to proxy up and make another guy around here to help me grind against nightmares.

  2. #4022
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Breeding pool is okayish until the point where you cannot lose 6 life (on average).

    You will usually kill with Hunting Pack (faster, easier than setting up a big brain freeze)

    You don't always need 2 cunning. They are mandatory when you face lethal. If not BF for 50 cards is usually enough.

    Passing a turn or two after playing Hunting Pack is not an issue. You should wipe opponent's board most of the time

    Solidarity is not easy hundreds of games are needed. Just practise.

    Sideboard is still in the air. Sorcery speed is bad but Im just trying things. Fracturing gust might be better but GGG is kind of a killer. Just wanted to hedge a bit more against artifact decks.

    Tempo decks (discard + counter) and faster combo/aggro decks are usually hard to play against.
    Most G1 (save rea + tempo) should be a walk in the park.
    Things get tougher G2 and G3 like for most combo decks.

  3. #4023
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Sweet decklist Ralf, want to borrow it.
    A long time ago Silent Requiem tried a green splashed version with hunting pack, I believe he tried a single forest in the 60. How good do you think it might be now?

    Also, green let us use Autumn's veil, and Krosan grip in the sideboard. Do you think they might have a place there?

  4. #4024
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefraise View Post
    Sweet decklist Ralf, want to borrow it.
    A long time ago Silent Requiem tried a green splashed version with hunting pack, I believe he tried a single forest in the 60. How good do you think it might be now?

    Also, green let us use Autumn's veil, and Krosan grip in the sideboard. Do you think they might have a place there?
    I've spent a full weekend playing the above list.
    List is good. Hunting pack is a massive up in the kill condition. It gives you another angle to finish games and you will always assess what kill is the best given the deck and the situation you are facing.

    Against Eldrazi for example, I jumped from a 25/30% win rate to something above 50% because of the green Splash.
    HP wiping oppo's board and killing in just one back swing is MVP.

    Tempo is also better G1 save T1 delver.

    Elves was a straight walk in the park, so was miracle.

    I struggled against BR tea but that was expected. G2 & G3 were better.

    Grixis is still hard. Discard + REB + fluster G2&G3 are a nightmare but I stole a few games. MD fluster will help you taking G1. And you can expect to win G2 or G3 especially because Solidarity is under the radars.

    I didn't get to play against Storm and their 8 discards MD but I think we can beat them G1. G2 & G3 should be even better.

    All in all, this deck can be a serious Tiers 2 contender.

    Enjoy

    PS: the given list is not a first attempt I tried several builds before reaching that point but there are still tweaks and room for improvement.

  5. #4025

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    So Ralf, i tested the green splash (with breeding pools) and i quite agree - growth spiral is a BEAST. I never thought about it previously, but it basically worked like a rite of flame, and got out of hand pretty quick. having 4-of is a bit of an overkill, since it's more of a win-more at that point. 2-of doesn't pop up often enough to make it work during setup.

    Lands:
    i'm quite tempted to boost the number of lands in the deck to 22 (i found myself having to impulse for extra land drops during setup). I went 7 fetch, 3 breeding pools and 12 islands. the hit of 1 life from the fetch plus 2 from the shock land was really painful (and meant that i had to go off 1 turn earlier against most decks). I'm also thinking that 7 fetches could be a bit too many, 'cuz the life-loss can be a real concern. I'm also trying a sprouting vines (yes, it's 99% chance a win-more, but it does smoothen out our draws from then on).

    sideboard:
    I really like your snap on the board, as it gives me a nice untap+reuse/removal for little mana (and usually means +6 or 8 mana)

    My sideboard is probably where i'm still deviating a bit from yours:
    1 unsubstantiate (i like being able to wipe that smirk off my opponent's face when s/he tries to flusterstorm/mindbreak trap my brain freeze, so i go off again over the hate)
    1 Flusterstorm (sometimes, it feels quite unfair that it's basically a hard counter in this deck)
    1 Meditate
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Snap (really like the snap here too - it's +4, 6 or 8 mana, and removal/reuse of SCM. At worst, it's +x mana, re-snapcaster the snap again)
    1 Rebuild (my meta doesn't have any affinity or MUD or anything like that. Maybe if i make a vintage version of this deck. Still have one though)
    1 BSZ
    1 Ravenous Trap
    1 evacuate (i'm trying to find a engulf the shore. But until then, i'm gonna have to pump all 5 mana into this)
    1 Surgical (i'm not sure why you'd want more than 1 on the side. Being able to surgical 2 cards from my opponent's game has generally been more than enough to seal the game)
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 wipe away (i need an out against counterbalance or even vial on 2/3)
    1 mission briefing (sometimes, i need to be able to flash back something as an emergency, and SCM isn't an instant)
    3 disrupt (sometimes, i need to counter discard, cantrips. I would like to find space for a 4th, but the sideboard feels a bit tight)

    So far, I'm playing around with replacing the 3 disrupts with hunting pack, a growth spiral, broken bond and a krosan grip.
    The hunting pack has made me really re-think about how i combo off; i fire off meditates pretty liberally (each copy normally gets played and flashed back by the time i'm done with the game), which basically means I'm skipping 6 turns (which feels like a losing proposition).
    Krosan grip works ok, but so far, it doesn't do anything that wipe away or echoing truth doesn't do. I can see it getting rid of a problem permanent, then surgical-ing it, but i'd rather just outright win the game.
    Broken bond has never been a wish target for me so far, and hasn't really popped up mid-game. can't say much about it so far, but i can see it being good against chalice-stompy decks if i draw it as the one-of in the game. I think having to wish for it makes it a tad too slow.

    Alrighty, I'm gonna have to proxy up BR reanimator, grixis, tempo and eldrazi to test against it. I've a feeling that bringing in 3 or 4 disrupt from the side can be pretty good against them, since they are quite reliant on discard-disruption. But we'll see.

    autumn veil is kinda unusable here. it doesn't do anything, considering that most of the time, we can just go off over the initial counter (force the high tide, send it to the grave, and then mission briefing it again, or unsubstantiate the high tide off the stack and recast it).

    Cheers and thanks for the help!

  6. #4026
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    Broken bond has never been a wish target for me so far, and hasn't really popped up mid-game. can't say much about it so far, but i can see it being good against chalice-stompy decks if i draw it as the one-of in the game. I think having to wish for it makes it a tad too slow.

    Alrighty, I'm gonna have to proxy up BR reanimator, grixis, tempo and eldrazi to test against it. I've a feeling that bringing in 3 or 4 disrupt from the side can be pretty good against them, since they are quite reliant on discard-disruption. But we'll see.

    autumn veil is kinda unusable here. it doesn't do anything, considering that most of the time, we can just go off over the initial counter (force the high tide, send it to the grave, and then mission briefing it again, or unsubstantiate the high tide off the stack and recast it).

    Cheers and thanks for the help!
    You cannot wish for Broken bond. This card has to come in G2 & G3 against.
    The number of lands and their repartition has still to be thoroughly tested. But I still believe you need 8+ fetches to be sure you can fetch for Trop whenever you need it.
    4 Growth spiral was one too many during my tests.

    I'm not sure "disrupt" is what we should look for. This card is mainly vs Tempo/Combo and might be a bit too narrow. But in case our only bad MUs are Tempo/Combo then 3 Disrupt SB is minimum.
    Only test will prevail.


    PS:
    1) that Broken bond is a troll. I'm just testing ideas. "Tangle" is also under testing.
    2) I do think wipe away is no longer mandatory. There is still some CB in the air but no more SDT.
    3) You have "rebuild" to take care of Vial + canonist. You also have evacuation/echoing truth.

    Ralf
    Last edited by Ralf; 02-06-2019 at 10:51 AM.

  7. #4027

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    You cannot wish for Broken bond. This card has to come in G2 & G3 against.
    The number of lands and their repartition has still to be thoroughly tested. But I still believe you need 8+ fetches to be sure you can fetch for Trop whenever you need it.
    4 Growth spiral was one too many during my tests.

    I'm not sure "disrupt" is what we should look for. This card is mainly vs Tempo/Combo and might be a bit too narrow. But in case our only bad MUs are Tempo/Combo then 3 Disrupt SB is minimum.
    Only test will prevail.


    PS:
    1) that Broken bond is a troll. I'm just testing ideas. "Tangle" is also under testing.
    2) I do think wipe away is no longer mandatory. There is still some CB in the air but no more SDT.
    3) You have "rebuild" to take care of Vial + canonist. You also have evacuation/echoing truth.

    Ralf
    After some more testing against UW aggro-y miracles:

    Wipe away is definitely useful, especially if we're not able to out-race a turn 2-3 CB on the draw. Basically, if they know what we're on (it aint hard to figure out after a few turns), all they need to do is leave a 3cmc on top, they throw down a beater, and we're stone cold dead soon after (since we can't wish or meditate)

    My first SB strategy was +3 disrupt, + flusterstorm, -2 impulse, -high tide, -reset, with the thought that i should be control (not sure if this is correct), but he drops a CB with mentor (3cmc) on top, and i realise i can't beat that. my opponent called it with my over-reliance on the wish, and i think most miracles players would do the same. I'm pretty sure this SB isn't right. i think it's my gut reaction to 3 pyroblast and 2 surgical.
    My second SB i tried was + echoing truth, +wipe away and -high tide, -impulse - the idea being that i need at least 1 active answer main, some ability to dig at 1, 2 and 3 cmc. And then mull quite aggressively to control the game until i can go off over the hate. Worked, being able to sit back on a bounce spell and a wish, then being able to bounce at the end of turn the CB, then go off on my turn has been good. It still doesn't feel that 'safe' though even though i'm more able to control the board. Moreover, winning these games were really grindy, and most definitely going to go to time (meaning we definitely shouldn't do this if we lose game 1).
    My third SB strategy was just "go off faster" - +meditate, +mission briefing, +flusterstorm - 2 cunning wish, -force. force of will never feels like a 'good' card in this matchup even though it's a free counter. having to exile something means I'm losing 1.5 cards (since i usually end up flashing back at least 5-6 cards when going off), and they're all good cards. I'm considering finding a couple copies of three wishes as extra card draw during setup (and as i understand it, it works with growth spiral as ramp). It seems ok, but quite a large variation; i can't guarantee that i can actually find all the cards that i need unless i mull really aggressively (in which case it hampers my ability to go off faster). In most tests, i basically took beatings until the turn before i get something that looks like it can go off, and test the waters. I save my force and fluster for surgicals. It feels really awkward going high tide, then they counter it, and debating whether or not their 4 card hand has further answers for the rest of my hand. high tide meet a force, then 2nd high tide while still on the stack and keep going off seems fun, but is quite risky. If they start the game with even 2+ pyroblasts, spell pierces, it can get pretty ugly.

    I'm not sure if I'm misdiagnosing our role in this matchup. should we be beatdown or control? My gut reaction is that we should basically be control in almost every matchup; we should go off as late as possible, usually in response to being killed if possible, right? But for a stack-disruption heavy deck, they're playing like a (very slow) pseudo-tempo deck, trying to land a beater and keeping us off the combo as long as possible. Heck even an entreat for 1 felt like bad news for me, yet not vital enough for me to want to counter it with anything.

  8. #4028
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    After some more testing against UW aggro-y miracles:

    Wipe away is definitely useful, especially if we're not able to out-race a turn 2-3 CB on the draw. Basically, if they know what we're on (it aint hard to figure out after a few turns), all they need to do is leave a 3cmc on top, they throw down a beater, and we're stone cold dead soon after (since we can't wish or meditate)

    My first SB strategy was +3 disrupt, + flusterstorm, -2 impulse, -high tide, -reset, with the thought that i should be control (not sure if this is correct), but he drops a CB with mentor (3cmc) on top, and i realise i can't beat that. my opponent called it with my over-reliance on the wish, and i think most miracles players would do the same. I'm pretty sure this SB isn't right. i think it's my gut reaction to 3 pyroblast and 2 surgical.
    My second SB i tried was + echoing truth, +wipe away and -high tide, -impulse - the idea being that i need at least 1 active answer main, some ability to dig at 1, 2 and 3 cmc. And then mull quite aggressively to control the game until i can go off over the hate. Worked, being able to sit back on a bounce spell and a wish, then being able to bounce at the end of turn the CB, then go off on my turn has been good. It still doesn't feel that 'safe' though even though i'm more able to control the board. Moreover, winning these games were really grindy, and most definitely going to go to time (meaning we definitely shouldn't do this if we lose game 1).
    My third SB strategy was just "go off faster" - +meditate, +mission briefing, +flusterstorm - 2 cunning wish, -force. force of will never feels like a 'good' card in this matchup even though it's a free counter. having to exile something means I'm losing 1.5 cards (since i usually end up flashing back at least 5-6 cards when going off), and they're all good cards. I'm considering finding a couple copies of three wishes as extra card draw during setup (and as i understand it, it works with growth spiral as ramp). It seems ok, but quite a large variation; i can't guarantee that i can actually find all the cards that i need unless i mull really aggressively (in which case it hampers my ability to go off faster). In most tests, i basically took beatings until the turn before i get something that looks like it can go off, and test the waters. I save my force and fluster for surgicals. It feels really awkward going high tide, then they counter it, and debating whether or not their 4 card hand has further answers for the rest of my hand. high tide meet a force, then 2nd high tide while still on the stack and keep going off seems fun, but is quite risky. If they start the game with even 2+ pyroblasts, spell pierces, it can get pretty ugly.

    I'm not sure if I'm misdiagnosing our role in this matchup. should we be beatdown or control? My gut reaction is that we should basically be control in almost every matchup; we should go off as late as possible, usually in response to being killed if possible, right? But for a stack-disruption heavy deck, they're playing like a (very slow) pseudo-tempo deck, trying to land a beater and keeping us off the combo as long as possible. Heck even an entreat for 1 felt like bad news for me, yet not vital enough for me to want to counter it with anything.
    wow.

    No.

    Keep up trying sideboard plans.

    I usually go by the following (if G1 is win):
    - 3 Tide
    - 3 Reset
    +1 Fluster
    +2 Brain Freeze
    +2 Surgical
    +1 Meditate

    UW(x) control will usually pack more counter + surgical. The idea is to take the long long route. Just keep making land drops and grind him with BF.
    If you see a "safe" opportunity to go off, don't hesitate (but usually after you have checked his hand & library with surgical -> if no more terminus (for example) -> HP kill)

    NEVER EVER enter a G2 without some kill conditions in your deck. Any surgical effect on "cunning wish" (or CB @ 3) would be devastating otherwise.

    Remember that if FOW is CDA, Meditate is CA and Meditate is a very powerful card vs control. Spend your FOW + fluster on his kill/lock condition and refill with meditate.

    PS: and if you play Broken bond, you can cut the last "reset" for it (as it can give you an out vs CB)

    PS2: don't forget that with BF you can clean up a soft lock with CB.

    PS3: surgical on flusterstorm will make them cry / Mentor as well.

    PS4: As a general statement -> +2 BF vs any deck for G2 & G3

  9. #4029

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Determined is 80% of the reason to splash green.

    otherwise white for 4 Abeyance maindeck and 4 Mentor SB

  10. #4030
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Determined is 80% of the reason to splash green.

    otherwise white for 4 Abeyance maindeck and 4 Mentor SB
    No.
    I have thoroughly tested it.
    It takes "X" slots (or 1 for wish purpose).
    It is marginally good vs chalice deck (as you wouldn't need to wish for rebuild) but that's all.

    We could argue it can take the flusterstorm MD slot but there are pros and cons.

    Determined/Abeyance is good if you don't want to be disrupted.
    This would be nį1 choice if Solidarity was the fastest combo deck outta here. But it is not.

    The fact that it can be countered and that you would mainly use it as a prerequisite before comboing (so that you cast your tide after having paid for it) make it so-so.
    It does open up some "bluff" (a bit the same way as remand could be played).

    Other splashes (White/Red/Black) can also be tested, but any "transformer" sideboard plan is hindered by the same thing:
    -> 4 creatures is too few (+3 SCM). When I was playing with Titi, I had 4 of it + 1 Clique + 2 shackles (+3 SCM) and I had troubles to finish some games.

    While Titi is hit by REB (mentor is not), both are hit by "Surgical". And as a combo deck, surgical effects always come in against us G2/G3.

    Not saying the transformer sideboard plan is bad. It is interesting but I came to the conclusion, it is not really needed.


    Anyway, I don't hold the truth as this is based on my personal experience and I would be more than happy to be proven wrong.

    Ralf

  11. #4031

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Well, id think that hunting pack can work as a good Ďtransformational sideboardí here, since all creature hate is going to be boarded out, and we only need storm~ 5+number of creatures at their end of turn.

    As long as we didnít do that to them game 1.

    I know that tomb of urami was a sideboard strategy that worked for Spanish Inquisition.

    Thereís another general boarding strategy I was considering, and thatís mini-brain freezes and tonnes of surgicals and counters. Just remove anything that looks like a potential threat, remove all of rugís green sources, and while their trying to work out how to get to us, storm kill them.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  12. #4032

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    meditate + hunting pack is super nombo

  13. #4033

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    meditate + hunting pack is super nombo
    I'd think that too, except that if, based off the game, you want to combo off with a hunting pack kill, you can go off with high tide, reset, mission briefing/SCM, reset again (or whatever else seems good), wish, possibly some permission, that gives you enough mana to hunting pack around 20 damage on the board. i'm assuming that we're going to be doing this in the beginning of combat step of the opponent with a lethal board, and make enough blockers to survive and then kill them on the backswing.

    It's not amazing, but it gives us an out against things like runed halo (or whatever that thing is that stops us from targeting them).

  14. #4034

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    I'd think that too, except that if, based off the game, you want to combo off with a hunting pack kill, you can go off with high tide, reset, mission briefing/SCM, reset again (or whatever else seems good), wish, possibly some permission, that gives you enough mana to hunting pack around 20 damage on the board. i'm assuming that we're going to be doing this in the beginning of combat step of the opponent with a lethal board, and make enough blockers to survive and then kill them on the backswing.

    It's not amazing, but it gives us an out against things like runed halo (or whatever that thing is that stops us from targeting them).
    I love Solidarity esplosivity but Spiral Tide reliability and the ability to play 3x Defense Grid is way too solid not to be considered

    Solidarity has much more Cons than Pros

  15. #4035
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    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    I love Solidarity esplosivity but Spiral Tide reliability and the ability to play 3x Defense Grid is way too solid not to be considered

    Solidarity has much more Cons than Pros
    Well I suggest you try a bit more...
    Defense grid is meh..ish in Spring Tide especially against discard (and the meta is full of them at the moment).

    Without any harm, I think you are just trolling for the sake of it.

    You are only throwing a few punchlines here and there but no feedbacks at all.

    Just try it (whether it is Solidarity or Spring Tide) and give us real feedbacks/reports/whatever you name it.

    I'm pretty sure we will have plenty to discuss afterwards.


    The green splash has been played for years here by many.
    That new blue/green card is really pushing solidarity to a new level (maybe from Tiers 3 to Tiers 2). It makes our life easier in every way.

    1) We don't care to give turns after Hunting pack. You should have wiped their board (chump blocking everything) so hard that giving them 2+ more turns will not change the tide in their favor. And if you died because of that, it only means one thing: Hunting pack wasn't the safest route to your victory. Hunting pack is meant to be the weapon of choice against aggro decks. Not every deck is an aggro deck and HP is not the safest kill in any situation. If you face an army of flying dudes with lethal on board: just don't go for HP...
    2) The difference made by Growth Spiral is huge. 1 more land is really good. Especially when your oppo is holding in his hand his wasteland so that when you start comboing he will never have the chance to waste your trop.

    Anyway at least try it and come back to talk shit with us if you still want.

    Ralf

  16. #4036

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Ok sorry, some more words.

    I have been a long time player of Spiral Tide (Candelabra, Time Spiral) and in a world of Counterbalances and Grixis that was already out of question.

    I have played a few match of this Simic breed and despite I have been having fun with the GS new trick with Reset I have often found myself casting Meditate which totally led me out of any creature based plan.

    Going green would give sense to testing Manamorphose into Red mana for Urzaís Rage, but I am afraid that is becoming way too tricky.

    The deck is fun altough not solid in a world of Flusterstorm, Pyroblast, Snapcaster effects and all the black discards around.

    Oh right, the rest of the meta is done by Chalice Trinisphere Emrakul or Thalia/Ports

  17. #4037

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Ok sorry, some more words.

    I have been a long time player of Spiral Tide (Candelabra, Time Spiral) and in a world of Counterbalances and Grixis that was already out of question.

    I have played a few match of this Simic breed and despite I have been having fun with the GS new trick with Reset I have often found myself casting Meditate which totally led me out of any creature based plan.

    Going green would give sense to testing Manamorphose into Red mana for Urzaís Rage, but I am afraid that is becoming way too tricky.

    The deck is fun altough not solid in a world of Flusterstorm, Pyroblast, Snapcaster effects and all the black discards around.

    Oh right, the rest of the meta is done by Chalice Trinisphere Emrakul or Thalia/Ports
    Thatís exactly why I play solidarity; itís challenging, and I think good fun.

    To be honest, emrakul and flusterstorm is merely a speed bump to solidarity (probably worse against spiral tide..?). I mean while testing, I challenged myself to turn 3 kill a tin fins.. just mill more over the emrakul triggers. Same with flusterstorm.

    I think that even for spiral tide, being able to go off a turn earlier, ramping mid-combo, and deck thinning is good, if not great. It turns wastelands on, but we only fetch trops when we need them (and for us in solidarity, we can just combo in response to the waste activation).

    My meta has Thalias/ports, and some chalices, but itís not that bad. We can bounce them, mini-brain freeze+surgical stuff if necessary (main deck!).

    Discards have been annoying though. Disrupt has been good to great against that, but Iíve also found that not trying to combo off as fast as possible (situation dependent) has been the more correct play than not. Maybe my decks become more like a control build more than combo off quick build.

    Anyways, Iím working on an excel sheet trying to science out my sideboard.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Edit - Came across 2 cards that might be useful; research//development and determined. Actually, not super sure about determined. Once we get started, its not like any other non-solidarity deck can actually stop us.
    *research half of research/development i can see being possibly playable as a 1-of main deck with the cunning wish. The targets being non-critical, but still has some utility mid-combo. Also allows us to thicken the deck with more 'on' cards and lower % lands. Some cards on the board like mission briefing, meditate, surgical and even another growth spiral. We can also use it to go around a counterbalance on 3 game 1 (do they have anything that's cmc 7?), and then using brainstorms and impulses to find the wipe away/krosan grip/hurkyl's recall.

    Also, twincast seems to be good, or maybe even just a misdirection against things like orim's chant. It basically gives us 1 extra turn against faster combos.
    psychic rebuttal also has some good corner case use; and split decision too (not sure about the voting mechanic though).

    I'm also wondering if, against decks like tin fins and other decks that run griselbrand, if it's worth running supplant form as a way to draw cards myself.
    Last edited by schweinefettmann; 02-13-2019 at 05:17 AM.

  18. #4038

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Did someone consider Early Harvest for the green versions? Is kinda bad because it needs green to be cast but doesn't untap the trops, but maybe it can be tryed as Reset #5+ in maindeck or wishboard

  19. #4039

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Iím trying to trim my sideboard - not add more!!
    Haha nah itís cool; never seen that one, but looks interesting. Iím not sure where Iíd want to be using that over say snap or turnabout. Snap gets me one more use out of SCM, turnabout can Ďfogí my opponents attack, mana-deny them OR untap all my stuff. And are in blue.
    Iíd be very wary adding too much green into the deck. In game one, especially if all they expect is growth spiral, then wasting the tropics are good. If they see hunting pack, grip and more green cards, they might be more liable to waste our land than use it for mana.

    Keep weird and funky cards comming in tho; Iím even testing a single clique again just to see if It can get things done against miracles.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  20. #4040

    Re: [Deck] Solidarity

    Ralf,

    I've always liked Accumulated Knowledge in Solidarity. It cantrips early when you're looking for lands and keeps the combo going later on, drawing lots of cards. It's not as good as Meditate at being flashed back with Mission Briefing or Snapcaster Mage, but it still seems solid and costs 1 less. Impulse is better when you're looking for specific cards but AK is better when you want to get multiple cards.

    I just don't know where you would fit it in the deck, since you want to have all 4.

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