[Deck] Solidarity

[fuga]

Hi guys. Is solidarity dead? look at that cad!

Pull from Tomorrow
XUU
Instant
Draw X cards, then discard a card.



Also this is interesting:

Censor
1U
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1.

Cycling U (U, Discard this card: Draw a card.)

[silly]

I don't think Pull from Tomorrow is better than Blue Sun's Zenith.

Both spells are instant speed card draw where you're paying X mana to draw X-3 cards. Pull from Tomorrow essentially lets you loot once at the very end whereas Blue Sun's Zenith can be pointed at the opponent's face to kill them (relevant in this deck). Also, Blue Sun can be shuffled back into your library, in case you need to use it on yourself to extend your combo and then need to redraw it later to kill (not that relevant but it could happen).

[GoldenCid]

I don't think Pull from Tomorrow is better than Blue Sun's Zenith.

Both spells are instant speed card draw where you're paying X mana to draw X-3 cards. Pull from Tomorrow essentially lets you loot once at the very end whereas Blue Sun's Zenith can be pointed at the opponent's face to kill them (relevant in this deck). Also, Blue Sun can be shuffled back into your library, in case you need to use it on yourself to extend your combo and then need to redraw it later to kill (not that relevant but it could happen).

Honestly, how often do you kill via zenith? Id ont generate that buch of mana to force your opo draw the whole deck. Howerer, i think that zenith is a bit better (shuffle), even stroke of genious (snapcaster) is. But it is true that the card is not bad.

The counter is meh,disrupt does the thing better.

[kombatkiwi]

I think that the new Miscalculation is a reasonable consideration for the Opt/Peek/ThoughtScour/Whatever-other-1-Mana-cantrip slot but I don't think the new X-spell makes much difference, even if it is better than the other similar options (which is certainly questionable).

[fuga]

I don't think Pull from Tomorrow is better than Blue Sun's Zenith.

Both spells are instant speed card draw where you're paying X mana to draw X-3 cards. Pull from Tomorrow essentially lets you loot once at the very end whereas Blue Sun's Zenith can be pointed at the opponent's face to kill them (relevant in this deck). Also, Blue Sun can be shuffled back into your library, in case you need to use it on yourself to extend your combo and then need to redraw it later to kill (not that relevant but it could happen).

Yes ok about shuffle etc, but Pull from Tomorrow it's UUX and goes to yard, so it's targetable by snapcaster mage's flashback!

I think that the new Miscalculation is a reasonable consideration for the Opt/Peek/ThoughtScour/Whatever-other-1-Mana-cantrip slot but I don't think the new X-spell makes much difference, even if it is better than the other similar options (which is certainly questionable).

I was thinking exactly the same!

Someone's gonna give a try to both of the cards?

[benthetenor]

Yes ok about shuffle etc, but Pull from Tomorrow it's UUX and goes to yard, so it's targetable by snapcaster mage's flashback!

So is Stroke of Genius.

And targeting the opponent is not a small thing. It is how you win in a situation with lethal damage (attacks or a Lighting Bolt or etc...) on the stack. The difference being that you don't Stroke them for 80, you Stroke them for 1 and stack a huge Brain Freeze on top of it so they lose when the Stroke of Genius resolves. You can Stroke them for 80 when they have Emrakul in the deck, etc, but for the most part that card is a split card that either reads "Draw 15 cards" or "4 mana: Target opponent draws one card."

This deck hasn't gained anything of substance since Snapcaster Mage. At this point, it would need at least two, and potentially three or four, extremely broken cards to be printed (or unbanned. I'm looking at you, Frantic Search...) for it to be competitive. Even if either of those cards above were an upgrade, they're not even close to the level of brokenness that we'd need to see. Really, the biggest constraint the deck will always face is the one-Island a turn issue. If there were an instant speed Merchant Scroll, or card that said something like "UU instant, search your library for a basic Island and put it into play. Draw a card", that would be awesome, but short of that we'd always be looking at fairly minor upgrades.

[fuga]

but short of that we'd always be looking at fairly minor upgrades.

Still better than nothing... i mean the deck looks dead and that is so sad for me :'(

[kombatkiwi]

{U}
Draw a card
Kicker {3}: Draw a card

Another solid but not game-breaking option

[lexluthor]

Hi, tiny reportlike thingy;
Finnish Legacy Champs at Poromagia 28.11.2015
Number of participants App. 100 +/-5
Prizepool in totall 1850 euros worth of store credit...

R1 Lands.
g1.
Ah, the pairings lottery starts well. He goes exploration and starts dropping Rishadan ports.
I'll cantrip in my own upkeep to keep sculpting/digging lands.
on turn 4-5, he has double port, thespian stage+some other lands, it seems that this is the best situation to go off at 4 lands and only 1 tapped
in upkeep due to some ill played Life of the loam on his part the previous turn. combo goes smoothly, into g2.
g2. I miss-sideboard and remove snaps and put some enchantment/hate bounces into main.
He gets a fast Marith Lage-token, and I'm in desperate need of finding a bounce. Luckily impulse nets me the Echoing truth, so no need for g3.

R2 Affinity
g1.Slow enough start, slowed even more by remands to be able to go for the Hurkyl's Recall,
So good. Steal some storm after Hurkyl's to brainfreeze for enough to make Visions Ancestralls. gg.
g2. Side in even more bounce;
Force of Willing a t1 Memnite gets him laughing, a Lot. (judgement call of opting not to force a mana Drum, due to plenty of bounces buying time with smaller amount of creatures.). Forcing the Memnite pays off, and the game is much a kin to g1.
Except this time I go for a Hunting pack kill, as it is easiest, safest, and saves my sanity a bit.

R3 Elves with Therapies

Oh, I wish I had the Hibernation or even repeals in the sideboard. Well, too bad.
g1 Grindy game with going for the combo against double activateable deathrite shaman.

g2. Too many therapies and double/triple action deathrite shamans. Good attempt at brainfreezing myself to get some flash of insight action going in response to shaman activations, but the thereapies were a bit too much.

g3. situation gets grindy again, and the double deathrite +cabal therapies/thought seizes have diminished my combo ablitiy a bit, I'm still fighting my way to combo off full length to get through emrakulls. Last turn I attempt some snap&flash&stuff shenanigans and see if he decides to use the Deathrites.
He does so in a position which leads me into a really desperate attempt for a _full combo through possible emrakull_ via snapcaster&low on mana,
or just brain freeze snapcaster brainfreeze. It seems that the desperate full combo at that mana situation is far too tight, and would need a rather almost perfect meditate, thus I'll just pray that he doesn't play Emrakull and go for the double freeze.
Phew. He had nothing. (I was totally unaware that random Elves no longer play Emrakulls, and thus this was a difficult judgement call).

R4 Mungo (Mango, what not)

Don't know the deck/what I'm up against, thus keep a hand of no Fow on the draw.

g1, he goes t2 double glimpse and starts dropping 0cc artifact creatures,mox opals, retraces, ends with red storm spell dealing enough damage.

g2 disrupt flusterstorm time!
He goes for a land grant; no other permanent mana; FOW. gg.
Although, he keeps on attempting... and it is slow and painfull and he does not concede.
The game is practically over and I'm in no way losing it while there is 30 minutes left on the clock, but I keep controll hand,
and as he thinks and thinks time goes by. Then I finally go for the kill when he attempts something and there is 10 minutes on the clock.
Shit.

g3, countering fast attempt at comboing off, and then playing the turns as fast as possible. He's fair and plays up with deacent pace now, (thinking he can kill me with some bad bears if the turns go fast enough.) This enables me to get enough land drops so that I'll just kill him 2turns after the time. (oh, he attempted to brainfreeze me in response to something. Minor nuisance.)

R5 4-color Pyromancer. (Joona Tiinus)

g1. Haven't played against the deck before, so mistakes done like; Don't fow the pyromancer. Ups, triple therapy(6 times)+gitaxian probes to never miss.

g2, I suppose I luckily won this game, can't recall. Could have been the second loss too.

g3(?) double therapy(4), twice blind. hits and hits...
Ouch. Can't win everything.


R6 Show&Tell
This is the matchup where I'd really love to have my "normal" maindeck of multiple Disrupts+Peek & such
instead of Snaps, extra Flash, extra Freeze& Visions.
Ah well.

g1 Don''t know what I'm up against in g1, so keep a slowish hand.
t2 he goes show & tell, I force, he forces. Emrakull. Slow hand= GG.

g2 Ah, atleast a minimal "shields up" action with disrupts, flusterstorms & such. (originally played around with the idea to play curfew just to screw with the emrakull big time, especially with snapcaster action.

I manage to have controllish hand, and after some disrupt into cantrips, and severe cantripping action on both sides I'm well set for any counter war that starts with 3cc or 4cc sorceries. I had double snapcaster, so I'll just play it in the end his t3/4 to get a brainstorm, thus getting a beat stick on the board.
(he had the Ancient Tomb to accelerate dmg.) Then it is just a matter of some minor stack tricks, dropping another snapcaster and having 4 "counters"
(including snap shenanigans)+ card draw in hand against his 4 cards, while beating away with snapcasters.
(at somepoint someone comments on the game "the best controll deck in the format!", once the snapcasters had started beating...)

g3 More of the same as g2, though no Tomb, but a Boseiju. That means I'll need to sculpt combo&protection and fast.
Get a relatively good hand with some combo pieces&permission. between turns 1-5 there is some disrupting, flusterstorm;
storm triggers, storm resolves countering a cantrip, remand into flusterstorm-action. CARD ADVANTAGE!
When he finally finds the show&tell/other piece for that on t5-6 or something; this is the situation where I would LOVE to have had a Peek.
Would I have known if he has only The Emrakull, that Show&Tell would have resolved Immediately, to give me an additional land drop, to make comboing so much easier, but if there is Iona/Griselbrand/something almost as bad, the extra land drop won't do me any good, thus I'll need to start going.
After some relatively nice stack fighting over something, I combo off with reletive ease. (had to make a point for the opponent to not to remove his flusterstorm&copies away from the stack, and at some later point cycled double remand&disrupt on the storm copies of flusterstorm, and then he finally understood why!)
Going through triple Emrakull wasn't necessary in the end, as I just pointed out that; yes, I'm going to play through the triple/Quadruple Emrakulls,
and I more or less already have that in hand, but just have to go on for some extra to MAKE SURE. (as he still had 2 unknown cards in hand)
GG. The best there was in that tournament.


R7 BWG-hatebears.dck

ID is more or less certain top 8, BUT with a bad seating. I see fear in my opponents eyes, as I'm first not opting for the immediate ID, a bit apolitigally...
But then before starting the game, after a while of reconsideration, the ID is the way to go.
Theory being; When not knowing what the matchup is; if it is a BAD matchup, I rather secure my top 8. And if it is a GOOD matchup then I'm happy to have another good MU in top 8. So ID it is.
Though, had I known what the opponent plays, I would have most likely played, to get a better position in the top 8....
Played for "fun", I crushed him.


TOP 8.

Uups, directly paired against Joona Tiinus with the 4c Pyromancer. The only really bad feeling MU in the top 8. Sigh. Such is standings lottery,
and teaches me into ID'ing into top 8.
Well, atleast know the odds are evened in a way that I too know what I'm up against. (everyone knows I'm playing Solidarity all the time, it is kind of like giving the heads up for everyone else, just to make things more fair....) ;)

g1;He gets multible discard efects, Deathrite shamans locking me away from hi value use of snapcasters.
g2; More of the same; blind therapies always hits. Especially after impulsing a second reset into hand, it is nice to have blind reset-call.
then I also make a mistake of cycling a disrupt when having meditate in hand in response to therapy(flshbck) in a desperate attempt of finding remand/something. The disrupt nets me a second meditate, therapy resolves and meditate that is. Sigh.
Too tired and hungry to play well anyhow... and as you know, the mistakes with this pile..... ;)

Anyways, 5-1-1 (had I played the GBW-bears, it would have been 6-1) record with a pile that feature Visions of beyond, double freeze, double flash of insight.... It seems to be back in 2011 again... Visions is so good! I couldn't have managed so well without them at all! low Freezing in the early game to set up for multible ancestrals, while setting up your graveyard for snapcastermage=demonic tutor, + added benefit of playing Flash of insight's as a Demonic tutor;
stack the rest of your deck. Ah, the joy of having only mana generation and brainfreeze in your hand, opponent has G.Probed that,
and think they have you with their lethal attack, but alas "I'll think I'll have to respond to that....."

Test the visions yourself! theyre nuts! There's no Mental Misstep as there was back in the days I last toyed with them....

Mikko Hyvärinen "Solidarity"

4 Hight Tide
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Force of Will
3 Remand
4 Reset
2 Snap
2 Flash of Insight
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
3 Visions of Beyond*
2 Brainfreeze
1 Turnabout
10 Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta

Sideboard

1 Hunting Pack
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Snap
1 Visions of Beyond**
2 Disrupt
2 Flusterstorm
1 Twincast



Meta for the top8:

2x Shardless Sultai
2x Burn
1x Aggro Loam
1x High Tide
1x Stax
1x 4c Pyromancer


So I didn't get to win a Champs this year either, it seems top8 and loss is my thing to do in these tournaments.
(I think this is third Legacy Champs top8 and out in my history over the years....)

Yours truly, Mikko Hyvärinen aka Nuorukain


p.s.
*seriously, this Visions thing is a troll, I won despite them, some propably because of them, and could have lost some because of them.
**if you still feel like playing with them, add fourth to the main, and get an extra flusterstorm/divert/whatever works in your meta.

Congrats for results!!!

Do you think about ban of CB? Solidarity will better position on meta?

Do you think any cards of the new expansion can play on this deck?

........
**if you still feel like playing with them, add fourth to the main, and get an extra flusterstorm/divert/whatever works in your meta.

+1 visions MD
-1 MD....???? what? (maybe snapcaster?)

[emidln]

You can't deny that Quicken is at least an interesting card to consider. Being able to play 1 sorcery in the deck is definitely an interesting prospect. I think three things remain to be seen :

- Whether this sorcery would be Time Spiral or something else.
- Whether to make this sorcery worthwile requires you to lean very strongly on it, for example to the point that you are now mandated to resolve it, and thus require an available Quicken every time you want to resolve it.
- Whether that ends up being worse than the non-Quicken decklists.

I don't have Solidarity sleeved and don't have any opportunities to test and develop such an idea (I simply don't even play enough Magic per week to allow for that). I am just saying : maybe nothing will come out of it in the end, but I feel there's definitely something to look at there.

I had reasonable success locally and in testing with 4x Quicken and 2 Merchant Scroll not long after Quicken was released. The rationale was that Quicken on the combo turn would let you cast any Scrolls you happened to draw and Scroll let me a couple of demonic tutors for turns 2 and 3 (which is rare for the deck to combo on anyway). I haven't evaluated (via extensive playlisting anyway) how much the deck has changed in the last decade, but it might still be something to pursue.

[Poron]

I have been testing it a little and

- Snapcaster Mage is definitly a 4x
- Snap is stellar
- Flash of Insight is bad unless you plan to costantly mill yourself.

We'd need Meditate or other big draw spell to have self-flashback. This is true also for some untap spell.
If you are locked down with a BF in hand, you can mill yourself down and hope in a Flash of Insight, but that is working only if you already have another piece of the combo or a Snapcaster in hand. It's definitly not 100% of the time.

I have been playing this just a little just to ask: what is the sense of this whole deck when UR Spiral Tide is a deck?
I mean

Time Spiral
Past in Flames
Merchant Scroll
Urza's Rage (+ Split Decision for Instant win for a mere 10UURR mana)

Solidarity would completly need back, at least, Dig Through Time to even think about it or it would have needed Past in Flames to be an Instant to even give it a try.

It's pure danger of (very) cool things.

In a world of Chalice, Thalia and Leovold I am afraid our beloved deck can be a tier 3 at best.

[Seraphus]

someone give this exact list a go:

// 60 Maindeck
// 3 Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage

// 39 Instant
4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Snap
2 Repeal
3 Remand
2 Impulse
4 Brainstorm
3 Opt
2 Peek
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
3 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Brain Freeze
1 Turnabout
4 Meditate
2 Flusterstorm

// 18 Land
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
12 Island


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Creature
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique

// 12 Instant
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 2 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Brain Freeze
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 Ravenous Trap
SB: 2 Rebuild

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

Some other Amonkhet cards to tinker around with:

Failure to Comply
Failure is a counter-effect but not a counterspell (so it trumps uncounterable)
Comply can cast on your turn before you go off and name Force of Will or Flusterstorm. You can also cast Quicken to enable a Comply in your graveyard mid-combo.
Pretty good with Peek! Maybe a good sideboard?

Spring to Mind
Spring is kind of terrible but it could accelerate us. Can also combo with Quicken to keep mana up until EoOT.
Mind is a draw 2 from the graveyard mid combo.
Maybe as a 1 or 2 of?

Vizier of Tumbling Sands
Cycles and untaps a permanent for U1. Not sure why or how we'd use this but worth noting. Were it to cycle for U only, it would basically cycle for free with upside mid-combo. Right now it basically would cycle for 1 on turn 2 or later. When running dual land islands it would allow us to re-use a dual land mid-combo (for free with just 1 High Tide effect). Spiral Tide will probably get better use out of this.

Cast Out
Off-color, but it cycles for W and it can solve any single permanent mid-combo. Maybe sideboard?

Shefet Monitor
Another off-color cycle, but it gets out a free untapped island for us. If we haven't gone off by the end of turn 4, is there a better play than that? It can even get islands for us mid-combo.

Fetid pool/ Irrigated Farmland
Cycle-able lands that are Islands for High Tide. Not sure how many we could run but at least it can increase our land-count?

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

{U}
Draw a card
Kicker {3}: Draw a card

Another solid but not game-breaking option

Maybe a one-of. You can cycle it early and mid-combo have it as a Snapcaster option (albeit a poor option compared to Meditate).

[ugotpauld]

Have we been missing the real cycle card from amonket


Visier of tumbling sands.

cons - can't cycle turn 1.
- can't dig effectively
- doesn't increase storm count
- can't be flashed back

pros - uncounterable
- gives back mana after 2 high tides, 'free' after 1 high tide
- can cast as a 3 toughness blocker
- works as a rampant growth if you untap with it, getting to 5 mana on turn 4 makes kills easier, even if that is slow
- combos with snap


think of it as a much weaker reset that also draws a card.

it could work in a more controlling shell, and can allow for more snaps maindeck

the opportunity cost is at its worse its 'just' a 1 mana draw 1 that you can't cast turn 1

i'm gonna test it this weekend and come back, though i'm not particularly optimistic

[Seraphus]

I don't wanna be mean but this thread is from 12-04-2008, almost 10 years ago. The deck as never used non-lands sorcery speed cards, what do people expect to found now that it would? The most powerful sorcery card, since this date, to become available for the deck was Time Spiral and yet no-one will use it or find suitable for it. Was there any card released that surpasses Time Spiral that I am not aware? Guess not...

[Poron]

This deck is fun.

Little tech: Red is your best friend. Urza's Rage + Split Decision is a wondefull finisher and overall, if you mill yourself very deep and hold a Snapcaster Mage in hand you can play it into Quicken (from Graveyard) and then Flashback Past in Flames.

At that point you can play your whole deck and I challenge you to still lose from there.

6-7 chained spells
Brain Freeze
Snapcaster Mage

GG

[ugotpauld]

someone give this exact list a go:

// 60 Maindeck
// 3 Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage

// 39 Instant
4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Snap
2 Repeal
3 Remand
2 Impulse
4 Brainstorm
3 Opt
2 Peek
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
3 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Brain Freeze
1 Turnabout
4 Meditate
2 Flusterstorm

// 18 Land
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
12 Island


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Creature
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique

// 12 Instant
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 2 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Brain Freeze
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 Ravenous Trap
SB: 2 Rebuild

Plays quite well, I haven't goldfished for speed.

seems weak to discard and maybe should have more land or 1 mana cycle.

4 repeal is better than expected.

I managed to win a game vs trinisphere with no brain freeze, though i got quite lucky and it was turn 6.

[cdnza]

This deck is fun.

Little tech: Red is your best friend. Urza's Rage + Split Decision is a wondefull finisher and overall, if you mill yourself very deep and hold a Snapcaster Mage in hand you can play it into Quicken (from Graveyard) and then Flashback Past in Flames.

At that point you can play your whole deck and I challenge you to still lose from there.

6-7 chained spells
Brain Freeze
Snapcaster Mage

GG

Do you have a list for a UR version?

[Seraphus]

Plays quite well, I haven't goldfished for speed.

seems weak to discard and maybe should have more land or 1 mana cycle.

4 repeal is better than expected.

I managed to win a game vs trinisphere with no brain freeze, though i got quite lucky and it was turn 6.

the purpose is to delay the opponent ;)

New update: (note some MU's will be only winnable through sb)

// 60 Maindeck
// 3 Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage

// 39 Instant
4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Snap
3 Repeal
2 Remand
4 Brainstorm
2 Peek
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
2 Force of Will
2 Brain Freeze
1 Turnabout
4 Meditate
2 Flusterstorm
3 Opt
3 Impulse

// 18 Land
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
12 Island


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Creature
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique

// 12 Instant
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Force of Will
SB: 2 Hydroblast
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Rebuild
SB: 2 Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 Echoing Truth