Wheel and deal seems so risky that it would only be good during the combo in which case three wishes is probably better. Careful consideration is probably too risky as well although like you said has more benefits. Still it would cost 5 mana and 2 cards for only 3 cards plus you opponent gets a card so you don't net any CA. At five mana you could just play Jace's Ingenuity. I feel like this is running bad cards to run bad cards.
everyone why not side out islands? try this side out 12 islands and stick the cards you have in sb but leave the meditate, the turnabout and BF as a wish target...
Quick tip: instead of actually change and try to practice mad sideboarding why don't you read the first pages if this thread and practice with a established list? This is one of the decks most hard to pilot ever made in mtg (in my opinion the one)... Expecting that adapting and playing it to be easy is wrong... As i already said once was winning tournaments with this deck but after stop training with it i could win games anymore... Look even old lists without misstep are fine to play now, you saw the two lists that made 1st place one as Silent list the other Mikko Hyvärinen... Start by playing that them post your doubts here ask us about a situation what can be our way to deal with it etc. Just don't rush yourself to change things you don't understand...
Silent i think you are mistaken about turnabout beside what scatmax refer turnabout is very useful vs still decks as you can use it as a Mana short and the match up vs Hive Mind you'll need to side out reset for turnabout.... But if you see all my lists i always used only 2 of so...
Like I keep saying I need help with the team America matchup but have gotten 0 advice about so far so...Also sideboards need to change to adapt to the metagame so its always good to keep that discussion open. Lastly playing someone else's list still leaves you lost in terms of sideboarding which is what I need the most help with. You can guess as to what cards need to come out and go in but you probably won't do it as well as whoever made the board. That being said I would love to hear how silent boarded/would board for his list vs some of the top decks.Originally Posted by Seraphus
Anyways, I think ScatmanX is right but mostly because it dodges spell snare not because you can mana short them. I can't think of when you would want to use it as a mana short vs landstill decks. You don't need to stall because their clock is rather slow and force and misstep are free so most of their countermagic is still active. Not to mention if you want to use it to turn off their counters you need to do it on their end step then go off on your turn which turns off reset.
Why would you side out reset vs hive mind? Most lists play force and maybe misstep but not spell snare. I think the bigger question is whether or not to counter show and tell. If they play hive mind you basically win. If they play emrakul you're on a 1 turn clock barring cryptic or turnabout. Maybe countering show and tells and then letting them eventually hard cast hive mind is correct. Actually I think that's the right way to play the matchup.
If your High Tide resolves, you can cast Turnabout targeting them. They can float mana, and let it resolve. The, if no spell is on the stack, and they don't want to cast anything, they'll have to go to their 2nd main phase, or whatever phase, and you continue the combo from there. This shuts them Counterspell and Spell Snare, which can be quite a good deal. Pretty hard to accomplish though...
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Hive mind: Pacts triggeres on the upkeep you can combo whenever you what except if you need to play reset meaning that you can only combo after the upkeep on the op turn... And yes let them resolve (but this is some situation in others you have to read the game...) resolve hive mind means double high tide...
Counterspell, spell pierce, spell snare, dispel, red elemental blast hum... and maybe any hard counter (not able to be played for free) are the reason why you need to mana short your op... and no mana pool empties at each step if your opponent says: Pass or play and he's in main phase it's a shortcut so you can tell at the end of your main phase turnabout... but ok...
So you give me no list of sb and you want to discuss sb...
Sb cards possible (meditate turnabout BSZ and BF + 11 ):
Mindbreak trap, Ravenous trap, divert, misdirection, Blue elemental blast, dispel, flusterstorm, cirugical extraction, hibernation, echoing truth, chain of vapor, snap, wipe away, twincast, Hurkyl's recall, dirupt, hunting pack and krosan grip in the green version, words of wisdom, slaughter pact, pact of negation, Faerie macabre, fact of fiction... Well i think this is a good list so pick it and than show a sb list and a maindeck list...
As the Team america list you have to have a thing in mind: make him counter everything, don't counter unless it represents a treat and remember foi and meditate are card advantaged... Avoid wasting brainstrom avoid rush into crack fetch or not crack them...
I had a big post about sideboarding in the last page. Anyways, here's the list I'm running right now:
12x Island
2x Flooded Strand
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Scalding Tarn
4x Brainstorm
4x Opt
4x Impulse
4x Reset
3x High Tide
3x Mental Misstep
3x Remand
3x Cunning Wish
3x Meditate
3x Turnabout
3x Force of Will
2x Brain Freeze
2x Flash of Insight
1x Cryptic Command
SIDEBOARD
3x Flusterstorm
2x Divert
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Pact of Negation
1x High Tide
1x Brain Freeze
1x Echoing Truth
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Hibernation
1x Meditate
1x Ravenous Trap
Ah I see what you're saying about hive mind. I was thinking usually you could just combo out on their endstep or whatever but if you need an untap that makes sense. For turnabout as a mana short it seems like you need lots of mana floating for that to work but vs slower control I guess it makes sense. Still if you've had enough time to get the lands and high tides and other pieces to go off and be able to use turnabout you could probably power through counters. I know mana empties with steps but I was thinking that you would probably need an untap to have enough mana to go off. I've never tried that line of play though but I will definitely keep it in mind in the future. About turnabout in the wish board. I've seen lists without it (for example silent's list). I never miss it.
Vs team America do you tend to let hymn resolve? I always try to force it but if they force back it really sucks. Remand doesn't do much vs hymn. Generally they only run 8-10 actual wincons. Should I save my counters for those? Honestly team America is the main reason for the diverts in my board.
EDIT: Lol you broke the internet seraphus. It's pretty funny how it keeps double posting.
Hive mind note: the thing is you'll try to delay show and tell and hive mind the best you can by remanding and etc... if we can resolve the win condition you'll have less mana than you'll have in the upkeep (once again its important to read the game)...
Sb: well divert + flusterstorm + surgical extraction (7 cards to deal with it is too way much) and without BF (relay on the BSZ its not a good plan in my opinion since you tell me that your worst match up is team america that uses extripate...)
you have to deal with resolved treats like confidant, stoneforge, tombstalker, any win condition. Playing this matches is quiet hard they tend to request too much patience, too much attention... I advise you too change the sb cards use cards like dismember or cards like snap... because yes you understand correctly go for the win cons...
Last edited by Seraphus; 07-21-2011 at 08:30 AM. Reason: its surgical not cirugical damn
I totally forgot about dismember that seems like some pretty awesome tech. I really want a rebuild to wish for as well so I think I will do -2 divert +1 dismember +1 rebuild. What do you mean about relying on BSZ? I have a brain freeze in my board.
Rely on BSZ: After extripate and Surgical extraction no you don't...
Last edited by Seraphus; 07-21-2011 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Really i mean Rely
But I still have a brain freeze in the board tO wish for if they extirpate or surgical it. What I was talking about before was not including a turnabout in my wishboard. I would never not run a brain freeze in my board.
Owh my mistaken then...
Ps: why did i spend money on that piece of shit of VoB? =,,(
Indeed?? Is it that bad???
it's worst (i had a eeling that it could be less power than what we had all think but it's even worst)...
One day something will happen and break VoB. Or maybe you really did waste like $20 on a piece of shit. Maybe its a big joke wizards is pulling on us. "Hey let's make a one mana blue instant that can draw three so everyone thinks its good like ancestral but actually its garbage" -Maro
"Yeah awesome idea. Also, let's do the same thing with the new Jace." -Forsythe
"LOL!" -Everyone
:(
Merfolk with standstill. How do I beat them? I played vs them yesterday and both games he wennt vial standstill turns one and 2. I had a misstep for the vial and remand for the standstill one game and both got countered and the other game I had a force for the standstill which also got countered. Without standstills it's not super hard but with them :(
I took out 2 turnabout and 1 remand I think for my flusterstorms. How would you board?
Last edited by rupus; 07-23-2011 at 11:59 PM. Reason: spelling
Do you remember me telling you that you need sb vs creatures?
I do think that not having at least one turnabout in a decklist that doesn't run Cryptic it's wrong....
If you side in creatures hate you'll not need Fow that much, remand isn't really any good vs vial so i suggest you side in flusterstorm and your creature hate and side out some portion of the cards i mention...
Yessir I remember that and put in a dismember but only 1 as a wish target. I will test out some more. After boarding I still had 1 turnabout and 1 cryptic as fog effects. I guess making sure vial doesn't hit is more important than stopping standstill so I can see how remand would be bad but I think force is important to make sure vial doesn't resolve. What do you think about boarding in surgical extractions? They could hit counter magic or standstills but I don't know how much of an impact that would have. I would like to hear what silent requiem thought about the extractions in his board and when he brought them in and what he hit with them. I will keep testing and report back.
Look if you counter vial you have to have MM plus FoW... let vial resolve let standstill resolve but don't let the creatures hit you. Do you understand what i mean?
Ah now I see what you're saying. I assumed resolving cryptic, turnabout, dismember, etc would be too difficult through a standstill but I will try that next time. Also, I know this is a very general question and it depends a lot on the game state but do you find yourself cracking standstills right away or do you generally wait until you are going to lose if you don't?
Played on an online magic-league tourney yesterday. It's single elimination and I was paired against Hive Mind game 1. You can check my opponent's list at http://pastebin.com/6QQp7VZK (search for "cabof", he finished 3rd). I was playing with the cards I have (no Forces yet):
Mainboard:
3 Misty Rainforest
12 Island
3 Island
3 Island
3 Island
3 Meditate
2 Flash of Insight
3 Cunning Wish
1 Turnabout
2 Brain Freeze
4 High Tide
4 Remand
4 Impulse
4 Reset
4 Opt
4 Brainstorm
2 Twincast
2 Counterspell
3 Mental Misstep
Sideboard:
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brain Freeze
4 Divert
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Meditate
1 Mental Misstep
1 Pact of Negation
1 Rebuild
2 Repeal
1 Turnabout
Game 1 he casts Show and Tell turn 3. I opt in response and find an Island (which I cheat into play with his Show and Tell). He drops Emrakul. My turn 4 I opt looking for a High Tide but got an Island instead. I drop it and pass the turn. I try to go out on the begin attack phase without a High Tide in hand. With 4 untapped lands, I tap everything and cast a Reset. He Intuitions for Force. I Twincast the Reset, untap, dig a little bit longer, and fizzle.
Game 2 he drops a Leyline of Sanctity turn 1. After some digging on our parts, he casts Show and Tell turn 4. I don't have a counter and cheat an Island into play instead. Emrakul hits the table on his side. I try to go out next turn. I resolve a High Tide on his upkeep. When I try comboing off he Intuitions for a Pact of Negation and tries to counter the Meditate. I cast Flash of Insight, some Resets, Wish, and cast Blue Zenith drawing 11 cards. I leave 4 mana open to untap but didn't get one in the 11 cards (I had cast 3 Resets already). I fizzle after some more desperate attempts of finding an untapper.
In general, I had the impression that I never came even close to winning. Keep in mind that he has 3 Emrakuls main deck, so I would need a pretty successful combo to Brain Freeze/Remand/Trap/Zenith him. Game two he even dropped a friggin' white Leyline in play. They play somewhere around 12 hard counters (4 Forces, Pact of Negations, and Intuitions). I don't know if those people who said Hive Mind is an OK matchup playtested more, but my impression is it's pretty tough.
I think I'll bleed for some Forces. That will certainly help.
EDIT:
Was browing Legacy daily results and found this Solidarity list 3-1 (search for Th00mor):
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital.../tourn/2608689
Last edited by Psychovoid; 07-28-2011 at 05:50 AM. Reason: Legacy daily link
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