When I'm playing RUG Delver, T1 Delver is ideal versus combo. I can then use all my cantrips to find disruption.Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn
If you counter the Delver, he might need a few turns to find another threat. And by then, you had enough time to find lands + business.
But that might be the wrong approach :)
Once High Tide resolves, you have priority (active player always receives priority after a spell resolves). You can choose to cast more spells, or pass priority.
L2 Judge
I would consider using a FOW on their Delver, but it's likely that you could win before you got to a dangerous life total if Delver is all that he has. More likely than not, I'd wait until it flipped (to give me some information) and Snap it up, but I guess that's not something you can just count on. It would depend entirely on what else you had in the hand (i.e., if it was a quick hand or a slow one, how much library manipulation you had, etc.) but the reason I would consider using FOW is that it's early (you'd definitely get your cards back, and it's much easier to recoup cards with Meditate when he has no clock) and with a Delver deck, the worst thing for you is if they have Turn 1 Delver + lots of disruption, which means that getting rid of their clock turns that scary hand into basically a goldfish. Turn 1 Delver is the way that a tempo deck beats combo decks, so I wouldn't have considered it to be a poor play, but I also wouldn't have faulted you for letting it resolve and just trying to race it. There's always the chance it doesn't flip and you can ninja in a Snapcaster Mage to get rid of it, which would only cost you one card rather than 2 for the FOW. Either way, Force of Will is a really rough card in the tempo matchup because a lot of times you need to counter something, but 2 cards is steep. For boarding, I would likely have swapped out FOW for Twincast and Flusterstorm, though if you had other chaff like Remand (though it's a little better against UWR Delver because of their Geists), I would cut those first. Remand's way better against decks that give you lots of time, but against tempo decks you often find yourself Remanding 1-mana spells which plays right into their gameplan. I'd personally never cut a Brain Freeze, simply because there's a chance that you end up with the ability to double-freeze them after a big counterspell war, and that's a pretty sweet way to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. I probably would have gone -2 Remand, -2 FOW, most likely, and would have at least considered bringing in the third Brain Freeze, though I probably wouldn't end up doing that. All else being equal, I would probably end up not Forcing the Delver, but as I said, it's almost a toss-up and completely hand-dependent.
Don't forget it's the opponent's turn. ;)
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article...g_and_Priority
I think I had priority after resolving High Tide. But I was not sure, and the fact he played Surgical Extraction was good for me, because my High Tide had already resolved, and I needed to win this turn anyway, or try to find another High Tide during the next turn... I'd rather have him waste his Surgical on High Tide, than keep it in hand to extract my Snapcaster Mage target :) Also, since I'm playing Solidarity, I could just combo in response to the Surgical, and kill him before it resolves :)116.3c If a player has priority when he or she casts a spell, activates an ability, or takes a special action, that player receives priority afterward.
I think he missplayed by casting Surgical Extraction there. He should have kept it, and played it during my upkeep next turn.
@benthetenor: thanks for the detailed thoughts. I think I made a mistake by forcing it, I should have let it resolve and keep the FoW for my combo turn. The sideboarding against tempo decks is also a little counterintuituive, since I would expect that a free counterspell is very useful against them, but, since we are playing Solidarity, it turns out that card disadvantage is more problematic than "free" spells. Against UWR, I guess FoW could help against an Ethersworn Canonist from his SB. But so can Cunning Wish / Snap :)
I think I have the wrong conception on Meditate. Do I always hold them for combo or would it be prudent to use one if I know I am out of kill range for an additional turn? I tend to follow the first line of thought but I have noticed against tempo and heavy control decks that there is more than enough window to play one. I keep thinking about it especially if they are running a discard suite and swipe my hand in the early game.
Any thoughts?
Basically, it's not too far from a RUG Delver mirror match or something like that where everyone knows now that the right play is to side out the Force of Wills, simply because they have too many threats that are all more or less identical, which means that Force of Will is usually a bad strategy. It is a little different (Force of Will is a little better for us since we have specific spells that we need to protect), but in that situation you only want to use it to protect your key spells rather than to stall them out, as they could just replace the Delver with a Tarmogoyf or something the next turn, and now you're down a card and scrambling. Just remember; this deck doesn't have a strong game against control because it plays Force of Will, it has a strong game against control because the opponent will almost never know which cards he needs to counter since nothing we do gives them any information about the contents of our hand, and every card is potentially devastating and can be cast at an instant speed, so we have the tools (if not always the skills) to play around counterspells, which is why you bring them in, obv.
As for the Meditate, the more flexibly you play, the better. It's often the play to try to go off, get stopped, then refill with a Meditate (or a Visions of Beyond if you play that) and try to go off again later. Sometimes they'll just have everything they need and a strong clock, and you're not going to win that game, but then most decks can't win in that situation. Meditate is very strong against discard, and is one of the reasons why I like this deck vs. other combo decks in a format with heavy discard. It's probably less than half of the time that an opponent who has been hitting you with lots and lots of discard spells will be able to capitalize on the extra turn you give him, let alone actually kill you. It does happen sometimes, but there are often opportunities to sneak a Meditate in there. Just don't forget to skip your turn!
116.3c doesn't apply in this case, as casting something is different from resolving. 116.3c says you receive priority after you have put something on the stack before it has actually resolved. However, MTR says you automatically pass priority after you have cast or activated something in order to accelerate the game. It's an official tournament shortcut:
Anyway, for your scenario you have to take a look at a different rule, namely 116.3b:Whenever a player adds an object to the stack, he or she is assumed to be passing priority unless he or she explicitly announces that he or she intends to retain it. If he or she adds a group of objects to the stack without explicitly retaining priority and a player wishes to take an action at a point in the middle, the actions should be reversed up to that point.
If you've played High Tide during your opponent's turn, he receives priority after it resolves and therefor is allowed playing Surgical Extraction after its resolution.116.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.
Solidarity should be called Papoi deck! Just saying....
Cause everyone talks about it but actually dont get it...
Or we could have a real name, like Reset Tide or Flash Tide.Solidarity should be called Papoi deck! Just saying....
Cause everyone talks about it but actually dont get it...
L2 Judge
So, I have a great interest in this deck, and I want it as a "budget" additional deck, just to have. I mean, I love the idea of playing control(ish) and combo at the same time, and I love blue, and I don't love Candelabra's price tag. Having read the past few pages, I've tried to come up with a vanilla core, something that I can put together and be happy with. I'd really love some input, because this deck is very interesting, and I would have the best ol' time piloting this until my other deck finally gets assembled.
12 Island
6 Fetchland Potpourri
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 High Tide
4 Reset
3 Cunning Wish
2 Turnabout
2 Brain Freeze
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
3 Meditate
3 Opt
1 Peek
4 Flusterstorm
3 Force of Will
2 Remand
I've chosen to run 4 Flusterstorm because I feel it really improves our combo matchups substantially on its own, which I understand to be something we're particularly weak to. I'm running 2 Remand because I feel it adds substantial consistency to the combo when lacking an ideal resource suite, and I believe it improves our Sneak Show matchup (by winning through Emrakul triggers). I've chosen 3 Force of Will because I feel I need the protection against powerful early game spells, but I don't like it enough to run 4.
As for the rest, I've tried to make it as standard as possible, going by what I've read. This is all theory fighter, of course, so I would love the opinions of the more experienced pilots.
Soooo... Anyone tried Swan Song in Solidarity? :)
why? yoi think to play this card?
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@bjholmes: like your list, but in my experience 9 counters are too much...indeed. Up to 7 is the limit for me.
I think it could be a good idea, I'll test it in the place of Flusterstorm. In addition, Swan Song can counter some enchantments like Rule of Law, Choke or Rest in Peace and it will left a 2/2 blue Bird creature (¿Snap? xD). Regards.
Sorry for double post. Presently, I'm testing this version after several months without playing this deck...
//Lands
12 Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
//Creatures
2 Snapcaster Mage
//Instants
4 High Tide
4 Brainstorm
4 Opt
4 Reset
4 Impulse
4 Meditate
3 Swan Song
3 Force of Will
2 Snap
2 Brain Freeze
2 Cunning Wish
2 Turnabout
1 Twincast
1 Tolarian Winds
//Sideboard
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Pact of Negation
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Tolarian Winds
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 1 Blue Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Turnabout
I'm agree about to include only three copies of Force of Will, it's better playing another counter, but no more than 6 - 7 in total. I'll test Swan Song instead of Flustestorm. Moreover, I'm testing with one copy of Tolarian Winds in the main deck with good results: today I needed it in two games and it helped me to win.
To conlude, I think Leyline of Sanctity is necessary depending of the metagame. If there are decks which uses Duress, Hymn to Tourach, etc. and others as Burn, ANT, etc.it could be a good idea to play with this enchantment.
What do you think? Regards.
Hi! Did you already use and test the leyline post side? In which metchup did you get advantages by it and which kind? Isn't a dead draw during your game (except the first I mean) ?
About tolarian winds, when did you find it useful? I was in dubt about put 1x in sideboard, but at the end I cutted it.
I like your 2x cunning wish and 4x meditate :D But i'm more than sure that 6x counters are not enough.
Right now I'm trying to play with just 1x turnabout and 1x snapcaster mage. I don't miss the others copies so much;D I use 2x repeal instead of snap to bounce my mage back, draw one card sometimes make the difference and you can bouce much kind of targets.
Let me know your experiences :)
Yesterday I played versus Jund and Pox, and Leyline of Sanctity helped me. It could be a dead draw during the game, but at least all cards of my hand are protected against Duress, Hymn to Tourach, etc.
Several times, I've many lands and few spells (that can be played with Snapcaster Mage) in my hand. For example, yesterday I had four lands, one Tolarian Winds and Snapcaster Mage, so I played Snapcaster Mage and while it was in the stack, Tolarian Winds. Finally I drew four useful cards. However, I should test more times this card and see how really runs.
Many people here play with 5 - 6 - 7 counters... it's a good idea I think. However, it depends of the metagame. Regards.
How do you deal with the reshuffle effect of Emrakul?
Let them draw their deck.
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