[Deck] Solidarity

[JPoJohnson]

Unfortunately, I think DTT's departure means that Solidarity is dead once again. DTT was the huge power bump that the deck needed to become competitive again.

If you're committed to sticking with it, I suppose the fallback is [card]Three Wishes[/card], akin to this list from 2012 (which is the most recent non-DTT list that I could)

I guess I missed the part where Solidarity was viable when DTT was legal... ):

I still find the deck a blast to play from time to time.

[JDK]

If you want to continue playing I'd go back and take a list like my old as a starting point: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post778752

[lexluthor]

I am testing 2 Gifts Ungiven MD. For now I'm enjoying it ( any idea what I can add to improve Gift Ungiven??) ^^

[Ahtii]

I am testing 2 Gifts Ungiven MD. For now I'm enjoying it ( any idea what I can add to improve Gift Ungiven??) ^^

I dont understand why would you want to play gifts in solidarity? Please decklist? would give some perspective.

Are you playing flash of insight?

[iGrok]

With DTT gone, if you really want to play solidarity, maybe the quicken-days undoing path is the way to go? Trying to just replace DTT won't work, you need some substantial changes or you're just playing a worse version. The Quicken build is at least different enough that you aren't just playing a downgraded version

[JDK]

With DTT gone, if you really want to play solidarity, maybe the quicken-days undoing path is the way to go? Trying to just replace DTT won't work, you need some substantial changes or you're just playing a worse version. The Quicken build is at least different enough that you aren't just playing a downgraded version

Of course it is a downgraded (if not even worse than before DTT) version...

[iGrok]

Of course it is a downgraded (if not even worse than before DTT) version...

Of course of course.

Your list, and the guy who was talking about playing Gifts, weren't very different than just replacing DTT. You need a new engine, not just the same lists as before.

[JDK]

Well, that's the list I ran before DTT with decent results.

You can prove me wrong, but I don't think Quicken + Days Undoing will get you anywhere.

[iGrok]

I don't think so either, I think Solidarity is just worse than Spiral Tide.

Solidarity didn't have big finishes before DTT was printed, and this is the first time that Quicken-Days Undoing is legal when DTT is not. I still don't think it will have big finishes, but at least Quicken-Days undoing, which no one really tried out because DTT existed, is something new.

You can prove me wrong, but I don't think Peek + Meditate will get you anywhere.

[Ralf]

I don't think so either, I think Solidarity is just worse than Spiral Tide.

Solidarity didn't have big finishes before DTT was printed, and this is the first time that Quicken-Days Undoing is legal when DTT is not. I still don't think it will have big finishes, but at least Quicken-Days undoing, which no one really tried out because DTT existed, is something new.

You can prove me wrong, but I don't think Peek + Meditate will get you anywhere.

You'll have a hard time to justify such assessments...

Meditate = you draw 4 cards -> +3 CA
Days U = everyone gets to take a new 7 cards hand -> 0 CA

If I were to play Quicken + "X", why bother with "Days U" when I could cast "Time Spiral" for 3 more mana and start comboing ?

[JDK]

I don't think so either, I think Solidarity is just worse than Spiral Tide.

Solidarity didn't have big finishes before DTT was printed, and this is the first time that Quicken-Days Undoing is legal when DTT is not. I still don't think it will have big finishes, but at least Quicken-Days undoing, which no one really tried out because DTT existed, is something new.

You can prove me wrong, but I don't think Peek + Meditate will get you anywhere.

Of course Solidarity is worse than Spiral Tide. No one is denying that, so why bring it up?

Solidarity also didn't have any finishes with DTT. The only two instances on http://tcdecks.net/ is my 4th place (1 DTT MD, 1 SB) at a 16 player tournament and a 7th place (2 DTT MD, 1SB) in a 32 player tournament.
I played my previously linked list before DTT with good success at FNM level (which is the only level the deck has any real chances to begin with). I have my experience with this version of the deck as well as with DTT. Do you have any with Quicken and Day's Undoing? The latter has to be proven, so be my guest.

[Ralf]

Hello,

After DTT's ban I have come back to my inner roots.

Even if the deck has lost some of its power, it is still very enjoyable to play with (not much for your opponents...).

Anyway, I always was on the control side of the "thing" so the new list had to go along with the same spirit.

Nothing really outstanding here but, as usual, haters gonna hate it.

I've gone back and forth and finally settled on the fact that I want the deck to be focused on beating *fair* decks G1; dealing with combo decks G2 & G3.

Here is my new list:

Breaking the Tides by Ralf

17 Island

2 Snapcaster Mage

2 Flusterstorm
2 Force of Will

2 Thought Scour
4 Opt
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Meditate

4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Turnabout

4 Repeal
2 Telekinesis
1 Snap

2 Cunning Wish


Sideboard

3 Spell Snare
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Brain Freeze
1 Hurkyl's recall
2 Wipe away
1 Blue sun's zenith
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Echoing Truth


This deck is meant to control the tide of the game.

You'll usually be waiting the very last moment to go *crazy*.


1) Make land drops. Every turn. Period.

This is rule n°1. As long as you are making land drops, you should be fine.


2) Use cantrips to make land drops. Period.

You have access to 8/12 cantrips:
- Brainstorm
- Opt
- Impulse to a lesser extend


This is rule n°2 with the only exception: you are facing lethal / you are going for a kill.

Cantrips in this deck are meant to help you not miss a land drop. Easy word ?

Playing cantrips at the right moment is key:
- If you have island(s) in hand do not play cantrips, unless you have a very good reason for that.
- Start playing cantrips only when you run out of "lands"
- Always assess the better spot to play a cantrip to maximize your digging power.


3) How to play the deck:

Ok, so people used to playing the deck should not encounter any problem piloting it.

Nevertheless, here are some hints:


OMG that f.retarded is not playing fetches with Brainstorm

a) This list has enough tools to fix an average opening hands.

b) Fetches make you "stifle" sensitive and cost you life.

b) We are no tempo deck and we are not trying to get rid of excess lands in hand.

c) During the combo turn, brainstorm putting back 2 lands on the top of your library followed by an Impulse/Thought scour is enough to get the engine going/rid of unwanted lands.

d) Digging into your deck with this list is *f. real* as the longer the game lasts, the better your chances (from a pure mathematical point of view) are to find a missing combo piece or to keep the engine going.

e) No free food for DRS ? Hell, yeah !

f) Because shuffle effects are not "clock-friendly"


Telekinesis, really ?

The card is being tested intensively. So far, I like it.

Pro:

When you look at it, the card seems "poor" but you should read: "gain 3 free turns".
Combined with Medidate, it has been a powerhouse.
Furthermore, it has some nasty applications against annoying utility creatures (MoR, DRS to say the least).

Drawback

It does nothing with the deck's strategy itself. When it is bad (you have no target for it for example), it is bad and will only rot in your hand or be pitched to FOW.


Sideboard

The actual sideboard is a pile.
I don't have enough data (read *real* games) to improve it any further.

The core is:
2 BF
1 BSZ
3 Spell Snare
2 MBT
2 Wipe away

the rest is in constant flux.
............................................................

As usual, happy to have a constructive discussion.

Feel free to shoot any questions/comments/feedbacks you may have.

Ralf.

[JPoJohnson]

Option? I am not familiar with that card.

[Ralf]

Option? I am not familiar with that card.

Good catch. Fixed.

[Nuorukain]

Hi, tiny reportlike thingy;
Finnish Legacy Champs at Poromagia 28.11.2015
Number of participants App. 100 +/-5
Prizepool in totall 1850 euros worth of store credit...

R1 Lands.
g1.
Ah, the pairings lottery starts well. He goes exploration and starts dropping Rishadan ports.
I'll cantrip in my own upkeep to keep sculpting/digging lands.
on turn 4-5, he has double port, thespian stage+some other lands, it seems that this is the best situation to go off at 4 lands and only 1 tapped
in upkeep due to some ill played Life of the loam on his part the previous turn. combo goes smoothly, into g2.
g2. I miss-sideboard and remove snaps and put some enchantment/hate bounces into main.
He gets a fast Marith Lage-token, and I'm in desperate need of finding a bounce. Luckily impulse nets me the Echoing truth, so no need for g3.

R2 Affinity
g1.Slow enough start, slowed even more by remands to be able to go for the Hurkyl's Recall,
So good. Steal some storm after Hurkyl's to brainfreeze for enough to make Visions Ancestralls. gg.
g2. Side in even more bounce;
Force of Willing a t1 Memnite gets him laughing, a Lot. (judgement call of opting not to force a mana Drum, due to plenty of bounces buying time with smaller amount of creatures.). Forcing the Memnite pays off, and the game is much a kin to g1.
Except this time I go for a Hunting pack kill, as it is easiest, safest, and saves my sanity a bit.

R3 Elves with Therapies

Oh, I wish I had the Hibernation or even repeals in the sideboard. Well, too bad.
g1 Grindy game with going for the combo against double activateable deathrite shaman.

g2. Too many therapies and double/triple action deathrite shamans. Good attempt at brainfreezing myself to get some flash of insight action going in response to shaman activations, but the thereapies were a bit too much.

g3. situation gets grindy again, and the double deathrite +cabal therapies/thought seizes have diminished my combo ablitiy a bit, I'm still fighting my way to combo off full length to get through emrakulls. Last turn I attempt some snap&flash&stuff shenanigans and see if he decides to use the Deathrites.
He does so in a position which leads me into a really desperate attempt for a _full combo through possible emrakull_ via snapcaster&low on mana,
or just brain freeze snapcaster brainfreeze. It seems that the desperate full combo at that mana situation is far too tight, and would need a rather almost perfect meditate, thus I'll just pray that he doesn't play Emrakull and go for the double freeze.
Phew. He had nothing. (I was totally unaware that random Elves no longer play Emrakulls, and thus this was a difficult judgement call).

R4 Mungo (Mango, what not)

Don't know the deck/what I'm up against, thus keep a hand of no Fow on the draw.

g1, he goes t2 double glimpse and starts dropping 0cc artifact creatures,mox opals, retraces, ends with red storm spell dealing enough damage.

g2 disrupt flusterstorm time!
He goes for a land grant; no other permanent mana; FOW. gg.
Although, he keeps on attempting... and it is slow and painfull and he does not concede.
The game is practically over and I'm in no way losing it while there is 30 minutes left on the clock, but I keep controll hand,
and as he thinks and thinks time goes by. Then I finally go for the kill when he attempts something and there is 10 minutes on the clock.
Shit.

g3, countering fast attempt at comboing off, and then playing the turns as fast as possible. He's fair and plays up with deacent pace now, (thinking he can kill me with some bad bears if the turns go fast enough.) This enables me to get enough land drops so that I'll just kill him 2turns after the time. (oh, he attempted to brainfreeze me in response to something. Minor nuisance.)

R5 4-color Pyromancer. (Joona Tiinus)

g1. Haven't played against the deck before, so mistakes done like; Don't fow the pyromancer. Ups, triple therapy(6 times)+gitaxian probes to never miss.

g2, I suppose I luckily won this game, can't recall. Could have been the second loss too.

g3(?) double therapy(4), twice blind. hits and hits...
Ouch. Can't win everything.


R6 Show&Tell
This is the matchup where I'd really love to have my "normal" maindeck of multiple Disrupts+Peek & such
instead of Snaps, extra Flash, extra Freeze& Visions.
Ah well.

g1 Don''t know what I'm up against in g1, so keep a slowish hand.
t2 he goes show & tell, I force, he forces. Emrakull. Slow hand= GG.

g2 Ah, atleast a minimal "shields up" action with disrupts, flusterstorms & such. (originally played around with the idea to play curfew just to screw with the emrakull big time, especially with snapcaster action.

I manage to have controllish hand, and after some disrupt into cantrips, and severe cantripping action on both sides I'm well set for any counter war that starts with 3cc or 4cc sorceries. I had double snapcaster, so I'll just play it in the end his t3/4 to get a brainstorm, thus getting a beat stick on the board.
(he had the Ancient Tomb to accelerate dmg.) Then it is just a matter of some minor stack tricks, dropping another snapcaster and having 4 "counters"
(including snap shenanigans)+ card draw in hand against his 4 cards, while beating away with snapcasters.
(at somepoint someone comments on the game "the best controll deck in the format!", once the snapcasters had started beating...)

g3 More of the same as g2, though no Tomb, but a Boseiju. That means I'll need to sculpt combo&protection and fast.
Get a relatively good hand with some combo pieces&permission. between turns 1-5 there is some disrupting, flusterstorm;
storm triggers, storm resolves countering a cantrip, remand into flusterstorm-action. CARD ADVANTAGE!
When he finally finds the show&tell/other piece for that on t5-6 or something; this is the situation where I would LOVE to have had a Peek.
Would I have known if he has only The Emrakull, that Show&Tell would have resolved Immediately, to give me an additional land drop, to make comboing so much easier, but if there is Iona/Griselbrand/something almost as bad, the extra land drop won't do me any good, thus I'll need to start going.
After some relatively nice stack fighting over something, I combo off with reletive ease. (had to make a point for the opponent to not to remove his flusterstorm&copies away from the stack, and at some later point cycled double remand&disrupt on the storm copies of flusterstorm, and then he finally understood why!)
Going through triple Emrakull wasn't necessary in the end, as I just pointed out that; yes, I'm going to play through the triple/Quadruple Emrakulls,
and I more or less already have that in hand, but just have to go on for some extra to MAKE SURE. (as he still had 2 unknown cards in hand)
GG. The best there was in that tournament.


R7 BWG-hatebears.dck

ID is more or less certain top 8, BUT with a bad seating. I see fear in my opponents eyes, as I'm first not opting for the immediate ID, a bit apolitigally...
But then before starting the game, after a while of reconsideration, the ID is the way to go.
Theory being; When not knowing what the matchup is; if it is a BAD matchup, I rather secure my top 8. And if it is a GOOD matchup then I'm happy to have another good MU in top 8. So ID it is.
Though, had I known what the opponent plays, I would have most likely played, to get a better position in the top 8....
Played for "fun", I crushed him.


TOP 8.

Uups, directly paired against Joona Tiinus with the 4c Pyromancer. The only really bad feeling MU in the top 8. Sigh. Such is standings lottery,
and teaches me into ID'ing into top 8.
Well, atleast know the odds are evened in a way that I too know what I'm up against. (everyone knows I'm playing Solidarity all the time, it is kind of like giving the heads up for everyone else, just to make things more fair....) ;)

g1;He gets multible discard efects, Deathrite shamans locking me away from hi value use of snapcasters.
g2; More of the same; blind therapies always hits. Especially after impulsing a second reset into hand, it is nice to have blind reset-call.
then I also make a mistake of cycling a disrupt when having meditate in hand in response to therapy(flshbck) in a desperate attempt of finding remand/something. The disrupt nets me a second meditate, therapy resolves and meditate that is. Sigh.
Too tired and hungry to play well anyhow... and as you know, the mistakes with this pile..... ;)

Anyways, 5-1-1 (had I played the GBW-bears, it would have been 6-1) record with a pile that feature Visions of beyond, double freeze, double flash of insight.... It seems to be back in 2011 again... Visions is so good! I couldn't have managed so well without them at all! low Freezing in the early game to set up for multible ancestrals, while setting up your graveyard for snapcastermage=demonic tutor, + added benefit of playing Flash of insight's as a Demonic tutor;
stack the rest of your deck. Ah, the joy of having only mana generation and brainfreeze in your hand, opponent has G.Probed that,
and think they have you with their lethal attack, but alas "I'll think I'll have to respond to that....."

Test the visions yourself! theyre nuts! There's no Mental Misstep as there was back in the days I last toyed with them....

Mikko Hyvärinen "Solidarity"

4 Hight Tide
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Force of Will
3 Remand
4 Reset
2 Snap
2 Flash of Insight
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
3 Visions of Beyond*
2 Brainfreeze
1 Turnabout
10 Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta

Sideboard

1 Hunting Pack
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Snap
1 Visions of Beyond**
2 Disrupt
2 Flusterstorm
1 Twincast



Meta for the top8:

2x Shardless Sultai
2x Burn
1x Aggro Loam
1x High Tide
1x Stax
1x 4c Pyromancer


So I didn't get to win a Champs this year either, it seems top8 and loss is my thing to do in these tournaments.
(I think this is third Legacy Champs top8 and out in my history over the years....)

Yours truly, Mikko Hyvärinen aka Nuorukain


p.s.
*seriously, this Visions thing is a troll, I won despite them, some propably because of them, and could have lost some because of them.
**if you still feel like playing with them, add fourth to the main, and get an extra flusterstorm/divert/whatever works in your meta.

[l33twash0r]

Thanks for the tournament report :) It's nice to see you always at these tournaments playing the same deck and making it look so good.

[GoldenCid]

This is you??

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18999&iddeck=144258

Congrats!!!

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

I've been waiting for years for an artifact with flash that could work in Solidarity, maybe enable Thirst for Knowledge. Is Torrential Gearhulk that card?

[GoldenCid]

I've been waiting for years for an artifact with flash that could work in Solidarity, maybe enable Thirst for Knowledge. Is Torrential Gearhulk that card?

I think it's too much mana expensive for a midrange effect...what would you replace for it?

[ParkerLewis]

You can't deny that Quicken is at least an interesting card to consider. Being able to play 1 sorcery in the deck is definitely an interesting prospect. I think three things remain to be seen :

- Whether this sorcery would be Time Spiral or something else.
- Whether to make this sorcery worthwile requires you to lean very strongly on it, for example to the point that you are now mandated to resolve it, and thus require an available Quicken every time you want to resolve it.
- Whether that ends up being worse than the non-Quicken decklists.

I don't have Solidarity sleeved and don't have any opportunities to test and develop such an idea (I simply don't even play enough Magic per week to allow for that). I am just saying : maybe nothing will come out of it in the end, but I feel there's definitely something to look at there.