[Deck] Black Stax

[Infinitium]

This is not a primer. It might be one day if I manage to pull my thumbs out of my ass and do some proper matchup analyzis, but for the time being this is merely an introdoctury thread to what I consider one of the more interesting Metagame options in todays Legacy: Mono-Black Stax (aka Pain Stax aka Blossom Stax aka Spirit Stax - take a pick).

This particular build started out as an attempt to add Contamination to a traditional Stax shell in order to improve consistency by means of a secondary lock using common elements. However, this proved unsatisfactory due to the "win more" sentiment of the Contamination lock (since an active Spirit/Bitterblossom versus an empty board is already winning) and because the format has adapted too many ways of answering or even ignoring it.

It did however become clear that Spirit and Biterblossom not only are excellent sources of card advantage in themselves, but are also very good at slowing down the pace of the game and have amazing synergy with Smokestack, and in conjunction with Crucible they allow it to be set to 2 (or higher) with alarming frequency. Around this core synergy are a number of supportive cards that attacks or negates what is imo the core of todays meta: stretched manabases, the graveyard, low casting cost spells and big creatures. Add the high basic count to weasel out of Wasteland and Moon locks and you have a deck that hits where it hurts.

Current List

9 Swamp
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Smokestack

4 Bitterblossom
2 Nether Spirit

4 Leyline of the Void
3 The Abyss
4 Seal of Doom
3 Unmask

Sideboard
4 Powder Keg
4 Trinisphere
4 Engineered Plague
3 Cranial Extraction

Card choices & explanations

Swamp: Basic lands for that Basic goodness. Along with the Moxen they mean that you won't get cut off from color anytime soon.

Ancient Tomb: Cheats the manacurve.

City of Traitors: See the above.

Mishra's Factory: Blocks Mongeese and the occasional Goblin. Also wins the game once it's locked down and slips under Landstill. Not essential, just a very good tool to have on hand in most situations.

Wasteland: Pain in the ass. Even moreso when you factor in Smokestack and Crucible.

Mox Diamond: With 25 lands and Crucible pitching to it generally isn't a problem. With the basic swamps this makes 13 hard to disrupt sources of Black mana which is plenty for this deck. Also like its friends Tomb and City it cheats stuff into play sooner than they have any business being.

Chalice of the Void: Self explanatory. The only decks it doesn't fuck up big time are those that run it themselves.

Crucible of Worlds: Amazing synergy with Smokestack, Wasteland, City of Traitors and so forth and so on. The glue that keeps the deck together. Only 3 of them though since space is tight, multiples are undesirable and extra Smokestack enablers are run (that are also better topdecks).

Smokestack: Stax. The main difference here is that since the list runs more enablers than Moxen/non-permanents you can pretty much always slowroll this @1 and count on topdecking an out before things go south. Can also often be set @2 or higher once you have a few enablers in play; making this the definite mvp of the deck. You always want to see this early; preferrably in multiples.

Bitterblossom: It chumps Goyf and friends, it feeds Smokestack and brings the pressure to the opponent should he allow it to get out of hand. The prevalence of EE and Deed as well as the fact that a single big creature on the other side of the playing field ties it down makes it a so-so threat though. Just be aware that it's better as a speedbump and fodder than a win condition and you'll learn to love this thing, especially as it's GY-independent. Caution: be aware that it's tribal and thus pumps 'goyf.

Nether Spirit: Like Bitterblossom, it's a one-card chump-blocking Stax-feeding machine. The main difference here is that it can be hard to cast sometimes, is suspectible to GY-hate, doesn't fly over stalled groundwars, can be hit hard by StP and is abysmal in multiples. On the flipside it doesn't kill you in the process, isn't hit by the same hate as the rest of your deck and is virtually uncounterable, making it a sweet deal overall.

Leyline of the Void: This is an awesome metagame card, especially in a deck that can hardcast it reliably. Splash damaging the entire format, is a free permanent for Smokestack and a black card for Unmask means that this will very rarely be a dead card. Also frees up 4 spots in the sideboard for more specialized hate, and makes for some easy siding versus a lo of decks.

The Abyss: Smokestack 5-7 that only hits creatures, basically. A lot of decks simply can't win as long as this is on the table, and it generally punishes decks that relies on a few beefy beaters to finish the deal. Doesn't hit Enforcerer or Mongoose sadly, but Stax has a good Threshold matchup anyway so it's a minor concern. There's a trick if you have both this, and active Smokestack and BB/Spirit in play where you put this on the stack targeting Spirit/Token and put Smokestack on top of it. Sacrifice the targeted creature and The Abyss will fizzle, meaning you won't have to sac another creature.

Seal of Doom: This used to be Damnations, but this has the added benefit of being a permanent for Smokestack and can be cast proactively if you find yourself with the mana. 2B is also much nicer to the manabase overall and this along with The Abyss, Factory and Stax is generally enough to keep creature rushes at bay, Stifle and Krosan Grip be damned. Unlike The Abyss it also kills Phyrexian Dreadnaught dead.

Unmask: Forces early lockpieces through countermagic, picks of threats and isn't entirely useless past turn 2 unlike Trinisphere. Also allows you to pitch redundant Leylines/Nether Spirits. Good synergy with the deck overall.

Powder Keg: Comes in from the board to deal with Artifacts in general and Bridge from Below, Empty the Warrens, Dreadnaught and Affinity in particular.

Trinisphere: Not main because this deck doesn't really have the synergy with it that White Stax has, and it's only really good versus storm combo anyway. Being stellar in that matchup secures it as a 4-of from the board though.

Engineered Plague: Kills a certain somewhat prevalent deck dead (or at least slows it down enough to contain it). Also good versus other tribal decks and has a surprising amount of uses overall versus most decks running X/1 creatures.

Cranial Extraction: This is quite possibly the most underrated sideboard card there is. Picks off silver bullets, recursion engines, mvp's and kill conditions like it's nobodys fucking business. Also gives the deck a "clock" of sorts versus combo and is just awesome overall.

Notable omitted cards:

Braids, Cabal Minion: Basically Nether Spirit and The Abyss are better cards. Also in a deck not running creatures this is a lighning rod for removal.

Damnation: Not bad, it's just that it is generally a turn too slow versus the decks it's at its best against, and it isn't a permanent for Smokestack. Possible replacement for Seal of Doom should you feel like it.

Helm of Obedience: Even with MD Leylines good luck finding both of them in time. Also, this deck doesn't Mulligan graciously, and the Helm is rather lackluster on it's lonesome.

Contamination: I really want to think that this lock is awesome, but it isn't. Having an active Bitterblossom/Spirit whilst the opponent has no pressure on the table at all is rare, and even then it does nothing against artifact mana or Black decks. It's a good sideboard cards versus decks such as Burn and Solidarity and little more.

How to Play:
Will add this later. Most plays are rather self-explanatory though.

Matchup Analyzis:
To come. Maybe. Probably not. You figure it out. I daresay say that it has got an Ok-Good Threshold/Loam/Combo/Ichorid mu though.

EDIT: Also can someone please remove that wordfilter? The novelty of ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh has worn off big time =(

[yawg07]

EDIT: Also can someone please remove that wordfilter? The novelty of ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh has worn off big time =(

You COULD just spell it correctly. :D

[Aggro_zombies]

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth should really be in there. And if you're tired of the word filter, the easiest ways to circumvent it are to learn how to spell and to not be a lazy fuck.

[Infinitium]

No, I reserve the right to occasionally spell threshold without h and not get penalized for it.

Also can you please provide some reason as to why you think Urborg should be in there over a Basic Swamp? The deck isn't color-heavy, it opens up for nonbasic hate and occasionally tapping Tomb without the pain isn't worth fixing the opponents mana for them and it has awful synergy with Wasteland.

[jakolhops]

seems like Jitte would be really nice in here. Allowing i to save your ass from lethal damage, remove some critters, and speed up this SLOOWWWW game that this deck would have

[Moczoc]

Leyline of the Void in maindeck? What about 2 or 3 Helm's of Obedience for a fast win?

[Infinitium]

seems like Jitte would be really nice in here. Allowing i to save your ass from lethal damage, remove some critters, and speed up this SLOOWWWW game that this deck would have

Not in a deck playing 6 creature effects it isn't. Also no Stax lists kills fast. They don't have to once the game's locked down.

Leyline of the Void in maindeck? What about 2 or 3 Helm's of Obedience for a fast win?

Too inconsistent, and Helm doesn't do enough on its own to warrant inclusion. Also the last thing you want to do is to mulligan for Leyline unless you're up against Ichorid/Breakfeast.

[Solaran_X]

The only recent Stax lists I've seen without a "fast" win condition are the few random Tezzeret Stax (which rely on Tezzeret's "ultimate" ability and to then swing with an army).

Angel Stax // Armageddon Stax runs Exalted Angels for the main win.

Red Stax // Wildfire Stax runs Covetous Dragon for the main win.

Your Black Stax could easily run a Tombstalker for the win. You're going to have lands and spells end up in your graveyard pretty quick, and once you've established board control...even casting Stalker without Delve is a great possibility.

And in case you forgot...even Stax needs to kill quick. For casual play, it's no big deal. But in a tournament, you're limited to 50m+5t to get your two wins in. Going to time is bad, and that is why even control decks need a quick win condition. My last tournament, I went to time against UWb Landstill and at the end of 4 rounds, the Landstill player when to time twice (although granted, both times it was pretty much Control v. Control - playing against Team America [me] the first round and then a counter-heavy UGW Jank in round 2 or 3).

[SuperBean]

I don't see why you aren't using Nether Void, and Demigod of Revenge as your win condition. The 2 cards have amazing synergy together and are both good on there own if played separately

[Dark_Cynic87]

I don't see why you aren't using Nether Void, and Demigod of Revenge as your win condition. The 2 cards have amazing synergy together and are both good on there own if played separately

Demigod clearly isn't used as it requires a crap-ton of colored mana. That is horrible in a stax list where the majority of the lands you play (not to mention would rather see than colored mana) are 2-mana lands or only produce generic mana.

9 swamp is wrong. Fetches would be a great addition you you aren't so often stuck in topdeck mode and just sit there hitting lands. Recurrable fetches via Crucible makes for uber-thinning, and therefore more business spells being drawn and played. I don't need to explain how vital it is to stax lists that they hit business spells consistantly.

Unmask is horrible. It's got bad synergy with Trinisphere and is even more useless late game than Trinisphere is. Trinisphere is consistantly good against a lot of many decks to beat. It's not bad after turn two, it throws off their tempo in ways unseen from any other card. There's a reason it's restricted in vintage. Also, it's not bad late game, it's just not a double-time walk.

Bitterblossom sux. Don't play it. Find a better win con. 1 life a turn is a clock for stax, especially when you are playing 4x Ancient Tombs, and (if) you listen to me, fetches. And for what? Something to let you sac off to stack? No, Bitterblossom is bad all around for these kind of lists. It's much better used in tempo-aggro lists.

Pce,

--DC

[morgan_coke]

I'd cut the blossoms and unmasks for some Liliana Vess, Urborg, and Demigod action. Helm of Obedience should also really be in here, especially if you run some vess as a tutor. yeah, you won't get the t2 win that often, but it's not like winning on t2 sometimes is a BAD thing.

EDIT: Leechridden Swamp is also something you should really be looking at a win con. Urborg gives you the mana to activate it and you have more than enough black permanents to activate it. I'd definitely use it in place of Factory.

[4eak]

@ Infinitium

First, let me say thank you for your post =). I've enjoyed your deck.

When looking at your deck, I really had to ask myself: Why play Black Stax instead of Geddon Stax? White offers much stronger board control against any type of creature (both untargetable and artifacts like Dreadnought) and it plays Geddon. Considering a random or diverse metagame (one which is not too specialized), Black Stax has a lot of ground to make up in order to catch up to White, which has a serious advantage in both board control and mana denial.

After shuffling your list up, I agree with this sentiment:

It did however become clear that Spirit and Biterblossom not only are excellent sources of card advantage in themselves, but are also very good at slowing down the pace of the game and have amazing synergy with Smokestack, and in conjunction with Crucible they allow it to be set to 2 (or higher) with alarming frequency.

I think the best reason to play Black Stax is Bitterblossom. That card is crazy awesome (pillow vs. pillow). It is a defensive card, an offensive card, and it combos to break the symmetry of the "Smokestack" effect. Bitterblossom is to creature-based offense/defense and Smokestack as Crucible is to land-based offense/defense and Smokestack.

If White could play Elspeth, Knight-Errant for 1W and as a much less vulnerable Enchantment it would play 4 of them in a heart beat. The strength of Bitterblossom is that it generates raw board advantage at no mana or card cost. It is here, in the abuse of Bitterblossom, that Black Stax could prove competitive.


I have a few questions and comments to make about your deck and card choices:

Crucible of Worlds

I realize this is one of the cards with an effect that doesn't stack. The card is unbelievably important in generating card advantage. How can you justify playing this below 4x? The card makes this deck viable. It makes Wasteland/City of Traitors/Mishra's/Mox Diamond/Smokestack definitively stronger. It also makes you less vulnerable to mana denial strategies of your opponent.

Nether Spirit

I've played with the card extensively (mainly in Pox). Bitterblossom/CoW are the alternate cards for this role, and they are simply better at it, especially as they have much few conditions for viability.

This slot probably belongs to other cards, perhaps even Tombstalker. Basically, you don't need as many board advantage cards as you need Smokestacks and mana denial.

Leyline of the Void

I'm not convinced this should be in the main unless you are specifically metagaming. In the average/random/diverse metagame, I think there are much stronger options in the main. What do think about playing this in the side?

The Abyss

This is one of the major pieces to the permanent-puzzle that puts Black Stax in contention with Geddon Stacks. You already have BB+CoW for generating permanent advantage, but you only have Smokestack to punish your opponent. You've chosen The Abyss as you additional Smokestacks to abuse BB. The problem is that this only punish creature-heavy strategies, and it doesn't punish the Mana-Base (like Geddon).

I wouldn't go so far as to call this Smokestack 5-8. There are some serious creatures which don't get hit by this card. Goose, MoE and Dreadnought come to mind.

More importantly, this card isn't necessarily symmetrical or always operational. If your opponent doesn't play a creature, then you don't get the benefit. Your Smokestack effects need to hit more than creatures in my experience. It also sucks that Abyss hits your own Bitterblossom. I don't think it is worth weakening Bitterblossom unless you can nearly guarantee that the effect will also hit your opponent.

Even if it is vulnerable to removal, Braids, Cabal Minion has been the stronger card in my testing. Braids, Cabal Minion is the real Smokestack 5-7 or 8.

Seal of Doom

This is a really poor version of Oblivion Ring. There have to better options than this. I can see this in the side, but I don't like it in the main (not one bit).

Unmask

Trinisphere + Unmask hurts. Even worse, Unmask is a.) not a permanent, b.) card disadvantage. This card simply doesn't belong in a permanent-based decks like Stacks.


After playing with your deck for while, and after a bit of thought and some more testing, here is where I ended up:


Card+Board Advantage: 8
4 Bitterblossom
4 Crucible of Worlds

Stacks: 8
4 Smokestack
4 Braids, Cabal Minion

Mana and CC-based Spell Denial: 15
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Trinisphere
3 Nether Void
4 Chalice of the Void

Mana-Base: 29
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
8 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai


As you can see, the list is very centered around two ideas:

a.) Consistently breaking the symmetry of Stack effects
b.) Heavy abuse of "resistor" effects as the addition form of mana and spell denial

This list can compete with both the board control and mana-denial of white. The resistor effects are underused in Legacy. They are amazing against low-cc curves, and they are almost a guaranteed turn 1 drop. Instead of playing Geddon, you ramp stacks and drop resistors to deny mana-curves.

Card choices:

Braids, Cabal Minion

A Smokestack@1 is so necessary for Black Stax. I hate that this is a creature. I dislike the BB cost. It is the next best thing to Smokestack, and it does offer a clock. Braids hits practically everything, and The Abyss doesn't.

Sphere of Resistance

The card is very, very easy to play on turn 1. It owns storm. It rocks mana-bases everywhere. If you don't play Geddon, then you need to play resistors.

Nether Void

Trinisphere (on Crack) 5-7. This is a very powerful card. It stacks with all other resistors, even Trinisphere itself (ouch when spells costing +6 on turn 2).

This is one of the other spells that makes Black Stax possible. Without proper LD, we are forced to use resistors, and this is a bomb.

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

A sick smoother. 2 is the minimum in Black Stax.

Mishra's Factory

This is only at 2x because I have Bitterblossom, and this gets less use.

Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai

Could just as easily be City of Traitors. It is Stack/Braid fodder. This card, with CoW/Stack lock, generates massive board advantage.




peace,
4eak

[Infinitium]

If you want to know what Black can do that white cannot the broad answer is graveyard hate and a better game versus non-swarm aggro and combo. It also have access to preemptive answers in the form of Unmask and Cranial Extraction and has got more cards to directly support Smokestack.

I realize this is one of the cards with an effect that doesn't stack. The card is unbelievably important in generating card advantage. How can you justify playing [Crucible of Worlds] below 4x? The card makes this deck viable. It makes Wasteland/City of Traitors/Mishra's/Mox Diamond/Smokestack definitively stronger. It also makes you less vulnerable to mana denial strategies of your opponent.

With 25 lands overall and 9 basics, 4 moxen and Tomb/City I'd argue that the deck is rather solid versus mana denial (especially if I've already reached 3). Similary the deck pretty much curves out at 2BB, at which point I've likely played out my hand and extra lands are superflous (barring the occasional Factory/Wasteland) since I generally don't play more than 1 spell per turn anyway. Also without Armaggeddon to support it and 6 other Smokestack enablers makes the card less of a necessity and more of a convenience, and as such I generally don't really want to see more than one per game.

I've played with [Nether Spirit] extensively (mainly in Pox). Bitterblossom/CoW are the alternate cards for this role, and they are simply better at it, especially as they have much few conditions for viability.

This slot probably belongs to other cards, perhaps even Tombstalker. Basically, you don't need as many board advantage cards as you need Smokestacks and mana denial.

Having it in conjunction with Crucible allows setting Stax@2 comfortably as opposed to having 2 Crucibles i play. More importantly though it chumpblocks all day long and sticks around after board sweepers. The mana requirements are a pain sometimes, but the card is definetly better than the 4th Crucible.

I'm not convinced [Leyline of the Void] should be in the main unless you are specifically metagaming. In the average/random/diverse metagame, I think there are much stronger options in the main. What do think about playing this in the side?

No, it definetly belongs in the main. A majority of the decks in Legacy uses the graveyard as a source of card advantage to some degree, and this bluntly puts a stop to that making it a generalist. And the decks that doesn't usually plays some combination of Goyf/Mongoose/Tombstalker.

In the matchups where it doesn't matter it can still be fed to Smokestack, pitched to Unmask and easily comes out for more specialized SB cards. And thats besides wrecking Ichorid and preventing turn 1 IGG loops on the play.

[The Abyss] is one of the major pieces to the permanent-puzzle that puts Black Stax in contention with Geddon Stacks. You already have BB+CoW for generating permanent advantage, but you only have Smokestack to punish your opponent. You've chosen The Abyss as you additional Smokestacks to abuse BB. The problem is that this only punish creature-heavy strategies, and it doesn't punish the Mana-Base (like Geddon).

I wouldn't go so far as to call this Smokestack 5-8. There are some serious creatures which don't get hit by this card. Goose, MoE and Dreadnought come to mind.

More importantly, this card isn't necessarily symmetrical or always operational. If your opponent doesn't play a creature, then you don't get the benefit. Your Smokestack effects need to hit more than creatures in my experience. It also sucks that Abyss hits your own Bitterblossom. I don't think it is worth weakening Bitterblossom unless you can nearly guarantee that the effect will also hit your opponent.

Cannot the same be said for any creature removal? A lot of decks simply can't conceivably win until they've dealt with The Abyss, and coincidentally a lot of them can't deal with it preboard either. Being forced to cast it with an active Bitterblossom sucks, granted, but Nether Spirit alleviates that somewhat and it's still possible to win with Factory if need be. And whilst it doesn't hit Artifact Creatures (which can be dealt with with Seal and Keg from the board) it does deal with Tombstalker, which cannot be said for most other options available.

Even if it is vulnerable to removal, Braids, Cabal Minion has been the stronger card in my testing. Braids, Cabal Minion is the real Smokestack 5-7 or 8.

But with a 2BB casting cost and being the only creature in the deck good luck getting it to stick early and long enough to matter. Not to mention that it has to replace Spirit/Abyss, which put bluntly are better cards. A lot of people have tried to break Braids in a Stax shell (focus being on have tried).

This is a really poor version of Oblivion Ring. There have to better options than this. I can see this in the side, but I don't like it in the main (not one bit).

I used to run Damnation in this spot, but it hurt my ability to blindly raise Smokestack and it was stuck in my hand too often. It does it's job killing Dreadnaughts and assorted junk, which is about all I need it to. The fact that it doesn't suck after siding is just gravy.

Trinisphere + Unmask hurts. Even worse, Unmask is a.) not a permanent, b.) card disadvantage. This card simply doesn't belong in a permanent-based decks like Stacks.

I prefer it over Trinisphere (as previously noted). Feel free to run that in its place if you wanna do that, but if I'm going to preemptively deal with threats I want them to remain dealt with. Trinisphere needs taxing/LD in order to be effective, Unmask doesn't.

Braids, Cabal Minion

A Smokestack@1 is so necessary for Black Stax. I hate that this is a creature. I dislike the BB cost. It is the next best thing to Smokestack, and it does offer a clock. Braids hits practically everything, and The Abyss doesn't.

I've already said my share about this. Just remember that hitting everything sans enchantments/Pwalkers need not be positive.

Sphere of Resistance

The card is very, very easy to play on turn 1. It owns storm. It rocks mana-bases everywhere. If you don't play Geddon, then you need to play resistors.

I think you're approaching the problem backwards - Black Stax doesn't do mana denial for a reason. Don't try to fit a sqare peg into a round hole.

Nether Void

Trinisphere (on Crack) 5-7. This is a very powerful card. It stacks with all other resistors, even Trinisphere itself (ouch when spells costing +6 on turn 2).

At 3B it's generally too slow to matter versus Storm and decks running cheap threats. Also you can't break the synergy outside of Manlands, and that is very prone to backfiring. The fact that you generally run more expensive spells than your opponent doesn't help either. Again people have tried and failed in breaking this in a Stax shell.

This is one of the other spells that makes Black Stax possible. Without proper LD, we are forced to use resistors, and this is a bomb.

Wait, what? This isn't Vintage, not every deck aims to win on the first turn. Additionally in Legacy Stax is very much a board control deck - Armaggeddon Stax runs its namesake because it enables its taxing effects to effectively lock the board down. the LD itself is only a means to an end.

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

A sick smoother. 2 is the minimum in Black Stax.

Again, why? The deck doesn't need more than 1 source of black unless you aim to cast Spirit early, and even then you don't want your B sources to be subjected to nonbasic hate. Having a legendary permanent as a 3-of in a deck without library or hand manipulation isn't exactly stellar either.

Mishra's Factory

This is only at 2x because I have Bitterblossom, and this gets less use.

Factory is what allows Stax to stabilize in the early game versus weenies. Running less than 4 is a big mistake; especially as it is the most reliable out to Nimble Mongoose the deck has.

Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai

Could just as easily be City of Traitors. It is Stack/Braid fodder. This card, with CoW/Stack lock, generates massive board advantage.

Without a way to find it is just way to situational for my taste, and even then a 1/1 isn't anything to go out of your way for. I'd just run another Swamp/City.

Nice to see someone else care for the archetype, but I feel that what you're currently running is essentially a worse Armaggeddon Stax and a step back towards the old Black Stax lists (which have been proven not to work).

[frolll]

ATM, I test a lil' w/ this build :

// NAME : [1.5] Blax
// CREATOR : frolll (magic-ville.com)
// FORMAT :
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
7 Swamp
4 Braids, Cabal Minion
3 Bottled Cloister
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
4 Smokestack
4 Trinisphere
4 Bitterblossom
4 Nether Void
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 4 Powder Keg
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

It works pretty much good, 8 Stax-effects + active bitterblossom is savage synergy imho, as his cloister + bridge.

I don't have that much to say - just wanted to share my list. :)

have anice day folks :)

[SuperBean]

Mox Diamond makes absolutely no sense at all. Your not playing Geddon.

[4eak]

@ Infinitium

If you want to know what Black can do that white cannot the broad answer is graveyard hate and a better game versus non-swarm aggro and combo

...

A majority of the decks in Legacy uses the graveyard as a source of card advantage to some degree, and this bluntly puts a stop to that making it a generalist. And the decks that doesn't usually plays some combination of Goyf/Mongoose/Tombstalker.

The majority of decks do not use the graveyard as a source of card advantage. Less than half the decks in Legacy even use the graveyard. Only some decks merit graveyard hate. Additionally, Leyline doesn't fully answer the ubiquitous Goyf (in this case, Relic is the better answer).

Leyline in the main is a pure metagame call. If you think this is the reason to play Black Stax, then you are pigeon-holing the deck exclusively as a metagame-hate deck that is so specialized that it deserves to be played only in the most optimal conditions.

I think if we want to make Black Stax a solid deck all around, then we'll need to put Leyline in the side, and use it as the specialized hate piece where it actually matters.

Additionally, your non-Ichorid combo match still wasn't much better than white.

With 25 lands overall and 9 basics, 4 moxen and Tomb/City I'd argue that the deck is rather solid versus mana denial (especially if I've already reached 3). Similary the deck pretty much curves out at 2BB, at which point I've likely played out my hand and extra lands are superflous (barring the occasional Factory/Wasteland) since I generally don't play more than 1 spell per turn anyway.

I'll agree it has fewer weaknesses than most decks, but every little bit of resilience helps.

Additionally, a card like B2B is actually pretty scary for this deck. Have you tested against a good MUC player?

I think Trinisphere merits dropping to 3 before CoW would (and I would still play 4x Trinisphere).

I think you're approaching the problem backwards - Black Stax doesn't do mana denial for a reason. Don't try to fit a sqare peg into a round hole.

Stax will always be a mana-advantage deck. I'm not trying to foist a requirement upon the deck; the fact is that Stax exists in virtue of its mana-denial and mana acceleration.

Black stax must play mana-denial to be viable. Wasteland, Smokestack, and Trinisphere are not enough with such a slow clock. You're deck does not lock opponent's out well enough.

Cannot the same be said for any creature removal? A lot of decks simply can't conceivably win until they've dealt with The Abyss, and coincidentally a lot of them can't deal with it preboard either

Hear me out, I think The Abyss is a fantastic card, but because it doesn't hit lands, we may have to replace it. My argument is that every Stax deck in Legacy is required to run Stacks 5-8.

The Abyss in Black Stax is playing the same card/board advantage slot as Geddon does in White Stax. Geddon is Smokestack (5-X), and it actually hits every deck. The Abyss is a good card, but it really doesn't hit every deck.

You can slow play and answer The Abyss; you can't slow play and answer Stacks or Geddon. You need your smokestack to always be punishing your opponent, and The Abyss doesn't.

At 3B it's generally too slow to matter versus Storm and decks running cheap threats. Also you can't break the synergy outside of Manlands, and that is very prone to backfiring. The fact that you generally run more expensive spells than your opponent doesn't help either. Again people have tried and failed in breaking this in a Stax shell.

You break the symmetry of the card because you out-mana your opponent. As turns go by, you should always have more and more of an advantage in this regard.

Additionally, just because people have "tried and failed" doesn't mean the card isn't viable. If I used that argument then I'd look at Black Stax in general and say: "its been tried, and it failed, so why try again?"

Factory is what allows Stax to stabilize in the early game versus weenies. Running less than 4 is a big mistake; especially as it is the most reliable out to Nimble Mongoose the deck has.

I don't think it is a big mistake, but if it suits you, then push it to 4 in this deck. Do remember that your opening posts expresses a different opinion, calling it "not essential."

Nice to see someone else care for the archetype, but I feel that what you're currently running is essentially a worse Armaggeddon Stax and a step back towards the old Black Stax lists (which have been proven not to work).

=) I realize people have tried similar approaches before. This could mean that Black Stax is just obsoleted by White Stax.

I guess I just disagree about the direction you've taken your Black Stax deck. Your lack of mana-denial prevents a raw lock. This was the essential problem we found while testing your deck.

We found that pure aggro got rocked by The Abyss, Factory and Spirit recursion, while our deck's Braids and resistors did not perform as well.

The aggro-control and pure control matchups were more favorable for our version. The resistor effects had a profound effect upon their entire curve, and if one Stack effect didn't stick, another would. They played around Abyss and leyline, but they were forced to deal and interact with Braids and resistors.

The combo match was very dependant upon exactly which combo we faced. Against Ichorid we obviously loved your deck. Against Storm, we preferred the resistors (AdN is the engine of choice, not IGG).




peace,
4eak

[Jaynel]

Mox Diamond makes absolutely no sense at all. Your not playing Geddon.

Mox Diamond makes for busted turn one plays that include, but are not limited to: Trinisphere, Crucible of Worlds, Smokestack, and Chalice of the Void at 1 or 2. Seems pretty good.