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Thread: [Deck] Doran Suicide

  1. #1

    [Deck] Doran Hammer

    Yep another deck. You're going to hate it. I've seen it before way too many times to not be prepared.

    People hate most decks posted here as a rule. So just go ahead and flame away. Don't even bother to try the deck. I'm down with that, and am prepped for the flames coming my way.

    Ready for the list? Do you have all your lines of attack figured out and ready to strike, a list of all decks that you're going to compare this deck to and accuse it of being worse than? Well then here you go...

    4 Tombstalker
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Doran, the Siege Tower

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Snuff Out
    4 Vindicate
    3 Reanimate

    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Bayou
    3 Scrubland
    3 Swamp
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    I've been getting sick of Eva Green having to play weak creatures like Shade and Hyppie for a while now. Both Hippie and Shade are usually well within burn range (you won't have spare mana to pump shade till turn four at the earliest), and that is just plain unacceptable this day and age. And to top it off, Hippie is only really worthwhile when played first turn off of a Ritual, and even then it's usually killed asap creating card disadvantage.

    When playing Eva Green, I felt like I was driving a Lambroguini stuck with a part or two from an old Chevy under the hood (parts like Hippe, Shade and Seal).

    I wanted all of my threats to be scary big, well out of burn and blocker range and my land destruction component to be simulatously more extensive and more versatile at the same time.

    Splashing white and making room for Doran and Vindicate allowed me to do just that.

    I've messing around with variations on this for what feels like an eternity now but settled on the absolute final list together late this afternoon, and have been really impressed with the overall decks performance so far. I mean crazy impressed.

    As early as this morning, I wasn't 100% convinced that Dark Ritual would work well without Hippe or Shade to cast off of it, but this entire final round of testing, Ritual has seriously never let me know once all day, letting me lay down Tombstalkers, play first turn Sinkholes on the play, chain together Thoughtseizes with Reanimates, Hymns with Thoughseiges, Sinkholes with Dorans on turn three and all sorts of other broken nonsense.

    Doran is a bomb, just as big or bigger than goyf most of the time, making your own goyf bigger as well, being safe from most black removal spells and essentially being a 3cc Tombstalker that isn't reliant on the graveyard in the least.

    Vindicate is a bomb, blowing up the lands that made it past Wasteland and Sinkhole during round one, eating up creatures that Thoughtseize and Snuff Out missed round one, and taking crap like Chalice at 2 out back and shooting it in the forehead.

    Reanimate is a super undercosted bomb, comboing with Thoughtseize or Hymn or Snuff Out or Vindicate to recover my opponent's best creature and recruiting it to fight by my side. Or just bringing back into play the Doran or Goyf that my opponent just smothered.

    So go ahead and say what you want about the deck, compare to whatever other decks it shares a vague similarity to, accuse it of being worse than whatever you want it to, attack whatever cards you want to. I've played these cards before thousands of times, and variations on this list hundreds of times, and know that every single card in this deck absolutely belongs and works exactly as it should.

    So go ahead and flame away. I'm ready for any and all flames coming this way. And I'm not going to respond until and unless some posts something constructive. The list is tweaked tested and 100% finalized and nothing outside of the sideboard is changing.

    Capice.

  2. #2
    I am the Killer Rabbit!
    DalkonCledwin's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Doran Suicide

    so um... what major (30+ person) tournament did this top-8 in????
    "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."

  3. #3

    Re: [Deck] Doran Suicide

    I know that I said this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    I'm not going to respond until and unless some posts something constructive.
    and I'll stick with in the future...

    But I'm going to reply just this one time.

    That big tournament up in ur-anus.

    You know, the same one that The Mighty Quinn and Epic Elf Survivor and 5c Eternal Garden and about half the decks in this forum top 8ed in.

  4. #4
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    Re: [Deck] Doran Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    That big tournament up in ur-anus.
    Now who is flaming?

    Either way, I am pretty sure this deck doesn't belong in this forum unless it has placed top-8 in alot of smaller events or one larger event. Or had far more detail in the opening post (i.e. detailed match ups, and detailed card explanation) than you have.
    "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."

  5. #5
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    Re: [Deck] Doran Suicide

    Team America gets away with running 8 threats because it runs 8 cantrips plus countermagic. You run 12, but 4 of them are legendary. Has this been a problem? Do you need to have a creature in your opening hand?

    Disruption can only go so far before they recover and you still don't have a creature on the table. All they need to do is stabilize on some fetches and punish you with a topdecked bomb.

  6. #6

    Re: [Deck] Doran Suicide

    Legendary is not a problem. You're never going to overextend by playing out both of your Dorans even if it wasn't Legendary. And 12 threats is quite plenty, especially when you're playing Reanimate to bring them back. 9 land stompy got away with 9 land total, and could reliably hope to see one every game and often two in the first few turns. I usually throw back any hand without a threat in it unless it has a solid disruption suite. And technically the deck plays 15 threats. Against most decks, a Thoughtseize, or a Hymn, or a Snuff Out or Vindicate equals a nice juicy Goyf in your opponents graveyard for you to reanimate into play.

    Dalkon, no, you have a fair point.

    The established decks forum is for decks that either have tournament showings, or have been worked on and tested for a long period of time, and thus have a completely 100% finalized list.

    I've been playing developing testing and tweakign this deck for a long time now, and this is a 100% complete well tested list. And I had won local tournaments with slight variations on this same list, but that's not really a big achievement.

    It's due to that latter category that a lot of the decks here are allowed to stay. The same reason that decks like the Mightly Quinn, Epic Elves and the other decks here were allowed to stay.

  7. #7
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    Re: [Deck] Doran Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaynel View Post
    Team America gets away with running 8 threats because it runs 8 cantrips plus countermagic. You run 12, but 4 of them are legendary. Has this been a problem? Do you need to have a creature in your opening hand?

    Disruption can only go so far before they recover and you still don't have a creature on the table. All they need to do is stabilize on some fetches and punish you with a topdecked bomb.
    well he does run Reanimate, so technically I suppose you could count those as threats as well...

    @ Hammer: If you have done a lot of testing, then you could at least have included a good deal of the match up results that you had performed to allow us insight into how this deck does in those match ups. But you didn't do that. Additionally you could have provided older versions of the deck, and explained why you rejected those as well.
    "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."

  8. #8
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    Re: [Deck] Doran Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin View Post
    well he does run Reanimate, so technically I suppose you could count those as threats as well...

    @ Hammer: If you have done a lot of testing, then you could at least have included a good deal of the match up results that you had performed to allow us insight into how this deck does in those match ups. But you didn't do that. Additionally you could have provided older versions of the deck, and explained why you rejected those as well.
    Reanimate isn't a threat. You need to have either a) gotten one of your creatures destroyed or b) ripped one out of an opponents hand or nuked it with Vindicate et al. Saying Reanimate is a threat is like saying Dreadnought without Stifle is a threat. It's completely conditional, which is what decks like this want to avoid. You run no library manipulation, so every card in your opening (and whatever you draw) needs to be useful by itself.

  9. #9
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    Re: [Deck] Doran Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaynel View Post
    Reanimate isn't a threat. You need to have either a) gotten one of your creatures destroyed or b) ripped one out of an opponents hand or nuked it with Vindicate et al. Saying Reanimate is a threat is like saying Dreadnought without Stifle is a threat. It's completely conditional, which is what decks like this want to avoid. You run no library manipulation, so every card in your opening (and whatever you draw) needs to be useful by itself.
    I agree, on its own Reanimate is completely and utterely useless (but comparing it to dreadnought is kind of silly, because I actually have seen a couple of decks which try to get Dreadnought out the difficult way). However ideally by the time this deck needs to play a Reanimate it will have either a creature in its own Graveyard, or one in the opponents graveyard (personally the latter is better in this decks case considering only 1 of the creatures in this deck is reasonably priced or not legendary to use with reanimate).
    "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."

  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] Doran Suicide

    And now it begins. And here I thought we were all friends.

    The last I heard, 12 is bigger than 4 and 8, which is respectively how many threats Dreadstill and Team America run. But that's not relevent.

    What is relevent is that in all this time, I've found 12* (15 if you want to be technical), to be more than enough.

    And yes to be able to reanimate a threat, you need to either...

    a.) thoughtseized your opponent
    b.) snuff out an opponent's critter
    c.) hymn out a creature at random
    d.) vindicated an opponent's critter

    that's only 16 cards that reanimate combos with. Not enough? Well then just wait till one of your creatures either kills a blocker in combat, or gets killed by something. If you opponent indeed leaves one of your creatures alone for a couple of turns and the game's not already over, well then you have bigger problems my friend.

    Dalkon, Discussions about several of my earlier incarnations of this decks are spread out throughout the rock, the sui black, the eva green, the eva white, the deadguy and a bunch of other similar threads, too many for me track down. Among the cards that were tried and rejected in different variations for different reasons.. Birds, Swords, Deed, Edict, Duress, Eternal Witness, Shriekmaw, Gadook Teeg (surprisingly good, but ultimately not worth having to cut Snuff Out), Smother and a few others I forgot about... but ultimately all of these incarnation were significantly weaker than the final list that I arrived at.

  11. #11
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    Re: [Deck] Doran Suicide

    Full warning @ Captain Hammer. You need to take a break, dude. Your attitude is awful.

    Thread locked, since it will only result in further flaming and warnings.

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