[Deck] Dutch Stax

[Steveman]

Steveman, are you still working on your primer?

Yeah, last week I wasn't able to work on it at all but I've been working on it the past few days, it's A LOT of information so editing it is going to take a while.

[unicoerner]

@Steveman: Why do you still run 4 copies of Crucible with no Armageddons, Smokey or Mishra's?
With just Mishras and City 2 should do, or not?

[feline]

I currently have geddon stax, but I really want to make this version, moat + humility would be fun to pull off at my local meta's, and noone would see it coming the first time I did it!

[Mr Miagi]

I tested some cards:
- Terminus just sucks. It sticks on your opening hand and never do anything: Don't play them!
- Mind Stone is a nice card. It avoids running into Daze or Spell Pierce (and you can't play around that all the time!)
- Mind Stone with white mana would be nuts, but doesn't exist. So it doesn't help powering out Turn 2 Humility/Moat/Elspeth but Turn 3 when you don't have another acceleration or want to play save with Plains.
- Karakas is the nuts! Bouncing Thalia, Teeg and all Sneak and Show creatures is just awesome!
- This deck just rocks against Sneak and Show. Humility wrecks them and if they play Show and Tell, they can't even counter it. MisD is a dead card in their deck.
- Armageddon has never been useful to me. Maybe Post-Board against UW Miracle or NicFit (Deed!)
- Smokestack should be a 4-of postboard against NicFit and UW Miracle.
- Beast Within < Oblivion Ring because you want be able to tutor your removal...if you play Beast Within, then only if you have space for 2 more Oblivion Rings.

This, 100 times this!

Beast within is shit, sry guys but it is, having any other color in addition to white makes this deck quite cluncky - manabase vise. Although we play25+ lands there are numerous occasions when a wasteland or god forbid two can take us out fo the game. Adding green does not add anything superior then what white already has, or at least not anything worth it for the price of having 2 colored deck. Also Oblivion ring is >>>>>>>>>> Beast within. Ring will snatch everything, almost without a drawback.

Smokestack I believe 2-3 should find a home in any kind of stax. but I can see why sometimes Moat+Humility is indeed enough.

Crystal ball - although I can clearly see the card is nice (niot necessary god) in this type of decks, without library manipulation, I often do not find the space in deck and more importantly the time to cast it, and activate it.. once I ahve humility+moat I already have all the time in the world..

Karakas - I think 2 maindeck iss a must +3-4 in the sb aswell. Lets face it, thalia can be a pain in the ass and gaddock locks us out completly.. which is very annoying.

Mishra's factory.. I must agree I do not liek to see her in my opening, defenetly not running more than 3. Perhaps I would even exclude them in a list without smokestack as it is a nice finisher in smoky list.

Also, I know it's not great but I'm kinda inlove with this card: Sundroplet, having this card in our deck would make 8 first turn drops (+4 in mox diamond fform, but w/e) which is very nice in a deck running 12 ways to generate 2 mana on turn 1. Sundroplet in multiples is also nice, so is adding counters with ancient tomb :) .. but indeed this card is dead draw late game.

Other card I was also really considering playing is Timely reainforcments. I don't know about you guys but I always strugle to survive the first 5 turns, and sometimes you just don't land humility/moat on turn 3-4 and sometimes that also is not enough, or it gets countered discarde etc.. Timely reinforcments would potentially give us the time necessary to set up.

Anyone tried either Sundroplet or Timely reinforcments?

[feline]

I have toyed with timely reinforcements, currently i have been sideboarding them, against most decks i found however that oblivion get's the job done just enough, and can be an answer to more stuff, then in place of oblivion ring i tried out tangle wire, so now my oblivion ring's and timely's are both in the sideboard when I play the deck lately while I'm currently maindecking tangle wire. No deck I own is 100 % in stone ever, I'm always toying with stuff, and alot of my sideboard stuff doesnt go with each deck (example: wish targets from belcher/high tide) Alot of my sideboard cards can go into multiple decks, so those go in their own deckbox and before each tournament, whatever I decide to push, I then put the sideboard cards I feel will be optimal for that run in the actual sideboard of the deck I decide on.

[xfxf]

What is the use of Flagstones of Trokair in lists without Smokestack? Do you use it with Wasteland under a Crucible to generate a slow card advantage?

[berksowl]

[*]2nd place in a 41-people tournament. List. (Black splash!)

This is from the primer on the first page.... The link is dead. Does anyone have a link to this deck, or recall from memory what sorts of cards were used in the black splash?

Edit: Okay, I think I pretty much worked it out from giving this thread a full read. The BW Dutch Stax list of old would include:

Cranial Extraction
...and probably also one or more of the following:
Liliana Vess
Nether Void
Engineered Explosives

[GreenHornet]

What is the use of Flagstones of Trokair in lists without Smokestack? Do you use it with Wasteland under a Crucible to generate a slow card advantage?

Flagstones are legendary, so with two of them in play they go to the graveyard. Then thin out your deck. With crucible you just repeat. No need for wasteland.

[paeng4983]

Played last night in a local legacy scene. We only had it 4rds swiss. My MUs were: enchantress (0-2); gw mavs (2-0); merfolk (2-0) and esper blade (2-0).

Here's the list that i used:
4 city of traitor
4 ancient tomb
3 wasteland
3 mishra's factory
3 flagstone of trokair
6 plains
1 horizon canopy
1 tabernacle pendrel vale

4 crucble of worlds
4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
3 smokestack
4 mox diamond

4 ghostly prison
4 armageddon
2 wrath of god
3 humility
2 moat
1 elspeth the knight errant

SB
4 tormod's crypt
3 leyline of sanctity
3 suppression field
3 timely reinforcement
2 oblivion ring

rave: cannot wait for 26th of August (this sunday), 3rd moat come to papa!

[phoenix4]

Right, so here goes:

I'm not sure if this should be in the 'geddon stax thread or here, and if i should, i'm truly sorry ;)

I'm going to a fairly big Legacy invitational in Denmark, this sunday and i was inspired by Jedi_gof (After buying 1 Moat from him) to see if i can crack the current meta with this - for opponents - really unfair deck :P

This list i'm providing for review (good and minor good criticism, bring it!) is a build, that has been matched against Burn, Goblins and Junk, so how this works against heavy blue, i'm not sure yet....

Because i don't have access to all the cards from the traditional D-Stax build, we've come up with this idea for maindeck, to see if we can mindfuck the opponent and eventually smash him (Sorry for the bad language! :)

The list:

4x Flooded Strand
3x Tundra
6x Plains
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Wasteland

2x Wrath of God
2x Armageddon
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Crucible of Worlds
3x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Moat
4x Trinisphere
4x Mox Diamond
4x Humility
3x Intuition

Just for the fact that i can play 3x Moat (These absurdely expensive cards) in the same deck, as well as CotV and Trinisphere.... I love this deck :D
Now, i'm not sure of what to have in the SB, but the meta is currently BUG Cascade, RUG Delver, Death'n'Taxes and a large number of cookie decks....

So any ideas for the SB is more than welcome, and by the end of Sunday, when the tournament is over, i'll provide a review of the tournament :)

Take care folks ;)

[jjflipped]

Still looking forward to your primer Steveman.

Also interested in the implications of Rest in Peace.

[kinda]

Anyone have a current list?

[caprino]

While Moat is no longer the gg card it used to be in the Goblins / Merfolk metagame, it's still a huge bomb; people tend to forget that Moat is key in protecting Elspeth. As much as I love Ghostly Prison against RUG, Ensnaring Bridge is a better "substitute" because it protects Elspeth (Ghostly Prison does not) and is an auto-win game 1 against Reanimator / Show and Tell.

Honestly, I hate Crystal Ball because it does nothing but time / slots. While I can MAYBE see it in Armageddon Stax (probably not though because of card slots), Dutch Stax is much better off playing Idyllic Tutor to increase the chance of the Moat / Humility lock.

Here's the list I'm currently playing, I have a 50+ page primer in the works that should be done by next week.

3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Karakas
10 Plains
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Humility
4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Moat
2 Idyllic Tutor
3 Trinisphere
// Sideboard:
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 4 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Null Rod
SB: 1 Stony Silence

I test this list. Very good in this meta.

Yesterday 4 1 in league w vs grixis, elf, ant, sneak and show... Lose vs dark depht