[Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

[Smmenen]

Link:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...p_4_Split.html

This is my RIW Tournament Report.

Enjoy!

Stephen

[J.V.]

Wow, I found:

The information you are attempting to view is only available to StarCityGames.com Premium Members.

to be so very insightful.

This wasn't even funny the first time. The next yokel who thinks this is clever and original is getting a warning---frogboy

[Smmenen]

(As I indicated in the top header) You will need a premium account in order to read this article on SCG in the next couple of months.

[BKclassic]

Yep, another really solid article. I hope you will find a reason to occasionally write about Legacy after the GP.

[Smmenen]

Yep, another really solid article. I hope you will find a reason to occasionally write about Legacy after the GP.

So long as there are fun and competitive tournaments nearby, which is something I plan to help keep going, I will continue to write about Legacy. It's too much fun of a format to not keep playing!

Thanks for the kind words. :)

[KrzyMoose]

Both this and the previous articles were pretty good. I don't really read your Vintage articles, as I don't really care too much about Vintage. (I actually wanted to get back into Vintage, and play with Gush again, but then they had to go and restrict all that stuff, and there is absolutely no way I'm playing a deck with less than four Brainstorm and four Ponder).

I think explaining *why* you made various plays is much better than simply walking through an entire match. Like, it's much more useful to briefly do the play-by-play leading up to an important/interesting decision and then spend more time on explaining that decision. I understand that it's not always an easy thing to do, as often you may or may not be able to remember your exact thought process.

You did do a decent job of it in this article in places, such as Game 1 against Chris. In contrast, the Quarterfinal matchup can be summarized as follows: "This guy played some Goblins, I played some Tarmogoyfs and sent some Goblins farming. Then I won." There's roughly zero useful information there. For sure, maybe that's all that happened. In that case, you could supplement the report with your Sideboard decisions, or your overall strategy/approach to that matchup.

You are correct in that Brainstorm and Ponder should be saved pretty much until the last possible second. Brainstorm, especially. It is very important (and, as obvious as it might sound, often forgotten) that you have a good idea about what you want to see and what you're looking for before you start cycling through your deck. On a similar note, extra Fetchlands you draw should also be saved until you absolutely have to fetch something, as they obviously make Brainstorm fifty times better.

A few notes on the deck itself.

I've been playing UBGW Threshold for over two years, and I have literally not ever been disappointed with it.

I've actually been running one Counterspell in place of one Daze for a while, and I've been liking it. I also like running one Engineered Explosives or one Echoing Truth (or some other card that I think'll be decent against my weekly metagame) maindeck.

Something I've been trying only recently is Trygon Predator in the maindeck. I run one in place of one Nimble Mongoose. While, yes, Mongoose is good, Goblins is fairly irrelevant in my metagame, and other decks can just ignore him. Predator is just such a blowout right now, and I definitely think that at least one in the Maindeck is a good choice.

So, good stuff. I look forward to reading future articles.

As an aside, it's really interesting that you have issues remembering details in Legacy matches while being able to remember Vintage matches with precision. I have a similar issue. I can remember every (tournament) match of Legacy I've ever played, spanning six years, almost perfectly. But I can barely remember what happened at GP: Philadelphia (the Extended one), or even most of my Standard matches at my local shop. I've been trying to figure out why that is. I don't think it has to do with how well you perform; not to sound too modest, but I always perform very well, but still have the problem. I can barely remember the matches I played en route to two PTQ Top 8's from last Extended season. (Though, interestingly, I remember the matches I played against Chapin, Jacob, and Yurchik). I don't think it's how much you enjoy a particular format, as you obviously enjoy Legacy quite a bit, while I still enjoy Ext. and Std. I don't think it's a function of how often you play/test the format, as I play Ext. and Std. more often now than I do Legacy (well, not so much now, as I'm waiting to see how Conflux affect Ext. and Std.). I should get funding to study this phenomenon.

[Smmenen]

Were you at the RIW tournament?

[KrzyMoose]

No. I was gonna go, but there was a PTQ in Columbus that same day, so I was planning on going to that. (I ended up not getting to sleep until about 7.30 that night (er, I guess Saturday morning), so I didn't go the the PTQ either. Oh well).

We have actually met several times before, but I doubt you remember; I have been to a few tournaments at the Soldiery, albeit a couple years ago. I used to go with Spencer Hayes, who you may or may not remember, as he doesn't really play Magic anymore, and I'm not sure if he's kept in contact with you or Doug.

[Smmenen]

No. I was gonna go, but there was a PTQ in Columbus that same day, so I was planning on going to that. (I ended up not getting to sleep until about 7.30 that night (er, I guess Saturday morning), so I didn't go the the PTQ either. Oh well).

I have been to a few tournaments at the Soldiery, albeit a couple years ago; I used to go with Spencer Hayes, who you may or may not remember, as he doesn't really play Magic anymore, and I'm not sure if he's kept in contact with you or Doug.

I hope you can make it to the next Meandeck Open (info here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=12415 ), I'd like to meet you.

I saw this post from some time ago in your use profile, and it reminded me of some really useful info:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=9834

I've actually thought about writing an article on how to play with Top, Brainstorm, and Ponder in the same deck. It's actually a really interesting topic.

It's really hard to answer this question without specifics about your hand and your deck. However, I disagree, somewhat. It does depend completely on the rest of your hand, but I usually like to hold on to Ponder for its shuffle effect.

Say I'm playing UGBW Threshold, and I start with one Blue land, Top, Ponder, Daze, and some other cards (though, to be honest, it really does depend on what these other cards are, but I'll ignore them for simplicity's sake). On the draw, if I don't draw a land, I'll often lead with Ponder. If I'm on the play, I'll lead with Top. Obviously, this means I have the intention to Daze the opponent's play, which would set me back a land drop, anyway, so finding the second land a turn later doesn't hurt at all. This leaves me with two choices on my second turn: Ponder during my turn, or Top at the end of my opponent's turn. (Again, for simplicity's sake, let's just assume we're goldfishing). Often, it is actually best to use Top, for a couple of reasons. There are going to be two cases when using Ponder/Top:
1. A land is one of the three cards on top of your library. In this case, using Top is much better.
2. A land is not one of the three cards on top of your library. In this case, it is best to use Ponder to shuffle, giving you two draws to find a second land (again, depending on your hand, you might want to Top during your Upkeep. If you're hand is full of one drops, then you want to Top during your Upkeep. Though if you need to cast something like Tarmogoyf or Counterbalance, then you're actually better off just hoping to rip the land (assuming you didn't draw it off of Ponder)).

However, you usually don't know if there is or is not a land on top. What you do know, however, is what cards are good and bad against the deck you're facing. (Again, this completely depends on the rest of your hand). Using Top let's you see what cards are coming up before Ponder forces you to either shuffle them away, or keep them on top. If there is no land on top, but you've played a Tundra and have, say, two Swords to Plowshares on top of your library against some Aggro deck, you might just stick with the one-land for the moment. Using Ponder in that situation is a waste. Obviously, that is an extreme example, but it does illustrate the point - often times, using Top gives you more flexibility.

That was assuming, of course, you were on the play and did Daze the opponent's play.

Being on the draw is completely different. In that case, leading with Ponder is often better for ensuring you hit the second land.

Furthermore, Stephen Menendian has some useful guidelines when to use Ponder or Brainstorm that he wrote about here: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/15931.html

If you don't have Premium, what he basically said was this:

-If you are digging for a specific card (say, Painter's Servant, for example), Ponder is better
-If your hand is really good, play Ponder
-If your hand is really bad, play Brainstorm
-If you don't have another shuffle effect, playing Brainstorm first is better

There is so much more to say on the whole "Playing with Top/Ponder/Brainstorm" stuff. It's fascinating. Though, I don't feel like writing anymore right now. I hope that's a good start.

*edit*I reread what freakish wrote, and I am in agreement with him when it comes to Counterbalance. If you need to get Counterbalance down, then you want to Ponder. That is assuming you don't have/don't play (on your opponent's turn) Daze.

*edit* I'll answer Versus's specific questions later.

I had forgotten I had even written that bit on Ponder v. Brainstorm! Very interesting stuff!

[jrp]

Steve, how did Nimble Mongoose perform for you throughout the day? I've found them to be relatively unimpressive cards in many matchups, and have thought about removing them from the deck. They are great in some matchups (Team America, Combo, Goblins), but often seem like dead weight.

[Smmenen]

Steve, how did Nimble Mongoose perform for you throughout the day? I've found them to be relatively unimpressive cards in many matchups, and have thought about removing them from the deck. They are great in some matchups (Team America, Combo, Goblins), but often seem like dead weight.

Goose served the role I expected of it. I will be running 3 in the future, however. It's an important source of damage, but it's definitely the weakest creature. The alternatives aren't better, in my view. It's also really really good against any deck that has Mishra's Factories, a bane of this deck. It's really good against Dreadstill.

[Giles]

I guess I will read this one in 90 days, as well.

I am all for shameless plugging. There is no good reason for me to get a SCG's membership when the Legacy content in Premium is at a "Once in a Blue Moon" rate.

[Anusien]

Every time I find myself wanting to cut Mongoose, it proves itself by being immune to removal. Plus almost everyone believes Goblins will be one of the top 3 decks at the GP, and Mongoose is awesome in that matchup.

[Zach Tartell]

I think the thing that pisses me off the most is that I enjoy reading well-written, deeply informative reports, yet by the time that this will be readable it'll be worthless.

Can somebody copy and past the deck list at least? Is that illegal?

[Smmenen]

I think the thing that pisses me off the most is that I enjoy reading well-written, deeply informative reports, yet by the time that this will be readable it'll be worthless.

Can somebody copy and past the deck list at least? Is that illegal?

Premium is only a couple of bucks, and SCG has signed up many of the best players in the world for weekly columns. For example, Luis Scott Vargas is a regular on SCG, and he's pretty much hands down the best player in the world right now. I think it's worth it, but I'm biased obv. If it weren't for premium, there wouldn't be this content anyway.

[Zach Tartell]

Premium is only a couple of bucks, and SCG has signed up many of the best players in the world for weekly columns. For example, Luis Scott Vargas is a regular on SCG, and he's pretty much hands down the best player in the world right now. I think it's worth it, but I'm biased obv. If it weren't for premium, there wouldn't be this content anyway.

I'm made of money and I still think that $30 a year is absorbidant to read three articles. If I were a multi-format player, I'd fork it up. As it stands I can just bad-mouth the practice of charging for something we're used to getting for free (Unlocking Legacy) and have enough money to get trashed once.

BTW, I love reading your old Vintage reports. The depth you strive to put into each is just so rewarding to read.

[deviant]

I'll just briefly double that. Stephen's articles are the best there is, and I don't even care about vintage.

PS. We are all appreciating your efforts (now that you've moved to legacy) Stephen, keep up the good work.

*slurps*

[KrzyMoose]

Every time I find myself wanting to cut Mongoose, it proves itself by being immune to removal. Plus almost everyone believes Goblins will be one of the top 3 decks at the GP, and Mongoose is awesome in that matchup.

Yeh, for the GP, I think that four Mongoose is correct, as that dork just does a fantastic job at eating Lackeys.

I think you can go down to three for local tournaments and what-not, if Goblins aren't a concern. If you have four Engineered Plague in the Sideboard, then you probably want all four Mongoose. If you're not running Plague, you can probably go to three.

*edit* Oh, I just wanted to mention that I usually side out Mongoose in the Combo matchup, if I have useful stuff to bring in. I almost always bring in Krosan Grips, which usually replace Swords to Plowshares. If the opponent plays Red rituals or Burning Wish, then I'll bring in BEBs, as well, which replace Mongoose.

I hope you can make it to the next Meandeck Open (info here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=12415 ), I'd like to meet you.

We actually have met a couple times, at a couple of Soldiery tournaments in the months before GP: Columbus and at the GP, itself, but there's a 98% chance you don't remember.

I may try to head down there next weekend. Haven't really thought about it, at all. It'd be cool though, since there's a GPT for Chicago up here the day before - two straight days of Legacy battles!

[Bardo]

Can somebody copy and past the deck list at least? Is that illegal?

Decklists aren't "premium" (whatever that means, legally), so they can be cut/paste with impunity; it's the rest of the content, that's, um, "premium." ;) Either Doug or I checked with Pete Hoefling back when SCG went to a paid site and were told that the lists were fair game.

Also, your use of the word "absorbidant" made me laugh -- unless you were referring to the cost of Brawny paper towels.

[KrzyMoose]

Maindeck:

Artifacts
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trygon Predator

Enchantments
3 Counterbalance

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force Of Will
4 Swords To Plowshares

Sorceries
4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize

Basic Lands
1 Island

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
2 Yixlid Jailer
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline Of The Void
3 Threads Of Disloyalty
2 Krosan Grip