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Thread: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

  1. #21

    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    Also, your use of the word "absorbidant" made me laugh -- unless you were referring to the cost of Brawny paper towels.
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  2. #22

    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    Want to take part like an adult in a fairly heated discussion on archetype roles? Now is your chance! Herberholz has brought a knife to a gun fight in a debate over legacy in the thread to my article this week:

    http://forums.starcitygames.com/view...15742&start=25
    Last edited by Nihil Credo; 02-10-2009 at 12:34 PM. Reason: Fixed. I hope.

  3. #23
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    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Smmenen View Post
    What to make fun of silly pros? Now is your chance! Herberholz has brought a knife to a gun fight in a debate over legacy in the thread to my article this week:

    http://forums.starcitygames.com/view...15742&start=25
    Apparently those people don't know what aggro control means in terms of a deck design and play. O well. If they don't want to listen or care to, then there's no point in carrying the conversation any further. They eventually start talking about not understanding the original post.
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  4. #24

    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    Firstly, let me say LOL. That back and forth was one of the funniest things I have ever read that somewhat maintained the argument at stake.
    Secondly, Without getting too far into that point of Aggro-Control, I just want to reaffirm the fact that Landstill will definitely show up at GP Chicago. I know I'm showing up with Standstills and Swords to Plowshares to battle, and I'm replicating my deck a few times for some friends.

  5. #25

    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    I like the use of "replicate". Im doing the same but for ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh :)

    How were the two thoughtseize in the deck?

    Your Graveyard have 6 slots taken for graveyard hate. Were they useful? LOTV = useful or not?

    No blue elemental blast in the SB?

    ps : I havent read your article because i do not have access to premium

    congrat again

    Robert
    Last edited by T is for TOOL; 02-18-2009 at 10:34 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    After reading that thread, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who didn't like CB Thresh/Threshold/ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh being called "Counterbalance-Goyf".
    Keep moon-walking.

  7. #27
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    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Smmenen
    Yes. By Counter-balance Goyf, I am specifically referring to the threshold deck, although that term makes even less sense since there are only, at most, 4 Threshold cards in the deck. Thus, I call it 4c Counterbalance-Goyf, but I am referring to the aggro-control deck.
    Stop failing at basic terminology.

    (In other news, I'll be calling Rbg Goblins "3c Mountain-Wasteland")
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  8. #28

    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    Who got banned on the forums?

  9. #29
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    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Brehn View Post
    Stop failing at basic terminology.

    (In other news, I'll be calling Rbg Goblins "3c Mountain-Wasteland")
    Oh God, this one just made me laugh hard. Cheers, sir, cheers. We can go on and on with these (Standstill-Mishra's Factory-Force of Will, Ichorid-Golgari Grave Troll-Breakthrough) or for the sake of simplicity and to avoid confusion, we could actually continue using established deck naming conventions. Who cares if it runs Mongoose as the only threshold card, it doesn't mean you need to bastardize an entire archtype and then deviate away from it by calling it something different.

    Oh well. I guess there's bigger things to worry about here...

  10. #30
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    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Di View Post
    Oh God, this one just made me laugh hard. Cheers, sir, cheers. We can go on and on with these (Standstill-Mishra's Factory-Force of Will, Ichorid-Golgari Grave Troll-Breakthrough) or for the sake of simplicity and to avoid confusion, we could actually continue using established deck naming conventions. Who cares if it runs Mongoose as the only threshold card, it doesn't mean you need to bastardize an entire archtype and then deviate away from it by calling it something different.

    Oh well. I guess there's bigger things to worry about here...
    Bastardize! LOL!

    HighTide should be renamed Island.dec

    I still can't believe there are so many people that don't know the difference between aggro-control and control. People should just go back to the theory "there is always an aggro deck and a control deck in every matchup". I find myself just going back to that thought and it makes my matches much easier. Sometimes, even Landstill ends up being the aggro deck (often during a mirror-match).

    Dread-Still is almost always the aggro deck against TruffleShuffle, Landstill, or HighTide. This is why I don't believe Dread-Still is a control deck; there are just way more decks out there that control the matchup better than Dread-Still.
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  11. #31
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    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    There are no drawn lines between aggro-control, control and aggro. For me, those terms simply give a rough estimation how often a particular deck will have to play aggro or control. After all, for every deck there are situations where you are control and situation where you are aggro.

    The problem is that the terms have two different meanings. On the one hand there is what most people would typically assume as the meaning * and on the other hand there is the role that a particular deck has to take in a particular matchup or game state **.

    And many people tend to mix those two (entirely different) sets of meanings which causes lots of misunderstandings.


    Quote Originally Posted by Team-Hero View Post
    People should just go back to the theory "there is always an aggro deck and a control deck in every matchup". I find myself just going back to that thought and it makes my matches much easier.
    That is still too much said. In every situation there is an aggro deck and a control deck (and there are still exceptions even to that, especially in limited-games it is sometimes correct for both players to play "aggro").

    Consider a game of Landstill (what people would typically call "true" control) and Goyf-Sligh (which is likely the purest aggro that Legacy currently has). At the beginning of the game Goyf-Sligh will be the aggrodeck as it smashes face with its guys until Landstill stabilizes (let's assume with a Wrath). Suddenly the game changes. Now Landstill has to shift its role to aggro and try to kill Goyf Sligh before they can collect lethal burn. And it's like that in many matchups.

    Another typical example would be the role of Goblins against Threshold: at the beginning, Thresh will try to stop Lackey and Vial and play some guys. Then when they get more than one guy, Threshold will have to be the agressor as they know they generally can't win the lategame against the big spells of Goblins.




    *
    Many efficient beaters + Burn: Aggro
    Few efficient beaters + counters + removal: Aggro-control
    Few winconditions or winconditions that double as something else + lots of removal: Control

    **
    TES against decks with CB: Aggro (i.e. win before they get CB online)
    Landstill against Burn preboard: Aggro (Burn has inevitability)
    U-W-x Landstill against Goblins: Control (i.e. survive long enough to land Humility/ clear the board with counterbackup

  12. #32
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    Re: [Premium Article] RIW: Top 4 Split Tournament Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Tartell View Post
    I'm made of money and I still think that $30 a year is absorbidant to read three articles. If I were a multi-format player, I'd fork it up. As it stands I can just bad-mouth the practice of charging for something we're used to getting for free (Unlocking Legacy) and have enough money to get trashed once.

    BTW, I love reading your old Vintage reports. The depth you strive to put into each is just so rewarding to read.
    Exactly. Although, if there continue to be Premium articles about Legacy, I may be tempted (especially Steve's articles); however, after the pre-GP articles and the post-GP reports, I'm afraid that will be the end of Legacy articles.

    If I had more opportunity to play Vintage, I'd hook it up for sure. $30 is a LOT less than I'll be paying for the cards I'm missing for Vintage decks, and $30 for Premium is going to go a long ways towards improving my skill than one extra beat up dual land.

    Same for Extended...but for Legacy, I'll wait (im)patiently.
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