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Thread: Public Zones and handling of cards

  1. #21

    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    I was under the impression that you could not look at your cards (faces) as you shuffle your library. When I side shuffle, I make sure not to hold my library so that the card faces are facing me, but rather, to the side (so my opponent cannot view the faces either) cradled in my hand.
    You shouldn't be looking at the faces while shuffling, but you're allowed to look at the cards in your deck when something lets you shuffle your deck. Any shuffles you make while the faces of your cards are visible do not count as shuffling, of course.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

  2. #22
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    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeggi View Post
    To my knowledge, rifle shuffling doesn't damage the cards, so it shouldn't be a problem, right?
    Riffle shuffling damages the card. Every card with centered vertical creases on the top has been damaged because of excessive bending, caused mostly by riffle shuffling. Just like these:

    Keep moon-walking.

  3. #23

    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaiminho View Post
    Riffle shuffling damages the card. Every card with centered vertical creases on the top has been damaged because of excessive bending, caused mostly by riffle shuffling. Just like these:

    is that what those lines are from ? I bought a flooded strand off ebay seller CHAOSGENE and it had bad creases like that on it. as well as other nicks/scrapes on the bottom and up the sides. it was supposed to be EX/NM, but obviously it wasnt. I wrote the guy and he said there was nothing wrong with the card. so I sent him photos, at which time he denied that was the card he sent and said the photos must be from another copy of the card I owned. needless to say I had to file a paypal dispute, which I won.

  4. #24
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    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    @OP: If I were you, I'd go with one of these two methods:

    1. Simply ASK him to be careful with your cards. Make it seem like it's your fault. "Hey, I don't have a problem with you looking at my yard, but I'm wicked anal about my cards. Can you handle them carefully, please?"

    2. Give him a taste of his own medicine. Whenever he asks to look at your yard, ask to look at his. Then handle his cards in the same manner that he handles your cards. I'm sure he'll get at least slightly annoyed if everytime he looks at your yard, he has to hand over his. Like my pops used to say, "What's good for the goose, is good for youse toose."
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  5. #25
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    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    I find that I commit to memory better when I handle the cards myself. That being said, I always politely ask to see the graveyard, and handle the cards like they are unsleeved Japanese foils. I am very (read: insanely) careful with my opponent's cards, because I would expect the same, and because they don't belong to me.

    Perhaps just say "Hey, please be careful with my cards. You can look through the graveyard and still be gentle with my property at the same time."
    Quote Originally Posted by Forbiddian
    Force of Will is the same. It's like the pants of Magic the Gathering. You have to wear pants for legal reasons, and it's good to have a few changes of pants for when they inevitably get dirty. But you don't want to run all Forces and have no shirts, because nobody wants to see a M:tG player without a shirt on. So you have a combination of shirts and pants (or Force of Wills and not Force of Wills).

  6. #26
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    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    As pretty much mentioned I would try 1 of 2 things.

    Grab his GY everytime he is interested in yours or during his turn following the turn he looked at yours. Take similar time and measures.

    Or, get a piece of paper and simply write down each card that goes into your gy of which he can freely grab and read. So long as you are not playing ichorid or loam your gy shouldn't be more than 5-15ish cards.

  7. #27
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    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    Why has nobody mentioned the classic method?
    Works best if you have your cards in a sleeve.

    Dilemma: You do not want to give said item to person.
    Solution: LICK IT!!! and then ask if they still want it.

  8. #28
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    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    @about shuffling:

    I received an answer that I should ask politely my opponent to be careful with what he/she is doing but I cant do anything if he/she tell me that its just the way of shuffling to be sure deck is randomized... So just play WB and leave pimp cards at home ?

    @about graveyard issue:

    When psychatog decks were everywhere in t2/extended it was very common to look into the graveyard, count cards and so on. It is ok with me IF they ask before they touch my cards. Maybe its just me but I think its rude to pick someones graveyard. I saw only few rulings about slow play in Tog matchups. People were complaining about this but what to do if your opponent wants to be sure... ?

  9. #29
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    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    You have to let them see it. You can ask them to be gentle with your cards, or perhaps speak with a judge about the handling of your property. I think (may be wrong) that the judge can handle randomization in place of your opponent.

    As for the graveyard, I always politely point at the yard and ask to look at it. Explain to him that he is being too rough with your cards and you will have to find a judge if he can't be respectful of your possessions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forbiddian
    Force of Will is the same. It's like the pants of Magic the Gathering. You have to wear pants for legal reasons, and it's good to have a few changes of pants for when they inevitably get dirty. But you don't want to run all Forces and have no shirts, because nobody wants to see a M:tG player without a shirt on. So you have a combination of shirts and pants (or Force of Wills and not Force of Wills).

  10. #30

    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by scrow213 View Post
    I think (may be wrong) that the judge can handle randomization in place of your opponent.
    You can definately do this, Gadiel Szleifer made the judge shuffle for Willy Edel because Edel is scummy, and it was at Columbus 04 I think.
    Last edited by cdr; 04-14-2009 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Be nice.

  11. #31

    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    A judge can shuffle if there is a good reason, but you better have a very good reason.

    Similarly, a judge can tell your opponent not to handle your cards, but you better have a very good reason to ask.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

  12. #32

    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    A judge can shuffle if there is a good reason, but you better have a very good reason.

    Similarly, a judge can tell your opponent not to handle your cards, but you better have a very good reason to ask.
    How good of a reason? Previous infractions for shady shuffling, or what?

  13. #33

    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    If you convince the judge that you are genuinely concerned (and have reason to be), rather than that you're just being a jerk.

    In the Gadiel situation, Gadiel was being a jerk as much or more as being genuinely concerned. I suspect the judge agreed to shuffle just to smooth the situation.

    It's very rare for someone to request a judge shuffle instead of their opponent (as I would hope it would be), and even rarer that a judge will agree.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

  14. #34

    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    If you convince the judge that you are genuinely concerned (and have reason to be), rather than that you're just being a jerk.

    In the Gadiel situation, Gadiel was being a jerk as much or more as being genuinely concerned. I suspect the judge agreed to shuffle just to smooth the situation.
    Oh, he's a complete jerk, but Edel made some pretty scummy plays against him at charleston, so he's almost justified.

  15. #35

    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Afro View Post
    I would NEVER riffle shuffle an opponent's deck. EVER. It doesn't matter if I know them or not. I riffle my own cards but they are my cards and I don't normally care about damaging them. At big tournaments I wouldn't dare because many people have Beta/Jap Foil stuff that is worth too much money and just not worth getting their feathers ruffled. Have some manners next time and ask first.
    I agree, at my local shop I never see riffle use on another persons deck no matter how cheap it is. Not even those players who do riffle perform that shuffle on other persons decks.

  16. #36
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    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    At the prerelease after I beat a guy with Elspeth he decided the best way to shuffle my deck was riffle 10 times both the short way and the long way.

    I had just cut his deck, but when I saw him going nuts on mine I decided to give him a taste of "lets bend the fuck out of each others cards pretending to randomize them." Needless to say, game 3 we both just cut like civilized people.

  17. #37

    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    I never ever riffle shuffle decks, whether it's mine or my opponents. I think it's just more respectful to not risk damaging their cards whether they care about them or not. Most of my opponents usually do the same as me, and just cut the deck, and jam them together like 5 or 6 times. Even when my opponents go to perform a riffle shuffle which bends the hell out of my foils, I usually stop them and politely ask them not to shuffle that way because it bends the cards really badly. I've never been as unlucky as you and had an opponent not respect my respect. I think I might get actually angry though and definitely call a judge to have him deal with the situation before. It seems like a personal insult to handle somebody else's cards roughly especially if they've expressly asked you not to. This situation would make me want to be a dick to this person outside of the game. It would certainly cause me to immediately have contempt for my opponent wherever that would lead.

  18. #38
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    Re: Public Zones and handling of cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten View Post
    @OP: If I were you, I'd go with one of these two methods:

    1. Simply ASK him to be careful with your cards. Make it seem like it's your fault. "Hey, I don't have a problem with you looking at my yard, but I'm wicked anal about my cards. Can you handle them carefully, please?"

    2. Give him a taste of his own medicine. Whenever he asks to look at your yard, ask to look at his. Then handle his cards in the same manner that he handles your cards. I'm sure he'll get at least slightly annoyed if everytime he looks at your yard, he has to hand over his. Like my pops used to say, "What's good for the goose, is good for youse toose."
    Both of these are extremely passive-aggressive. I would discourage such behavior. In general, someone should always ask before touching any of your cards. If they still are rough with them, then flat out tell them that it bothers you. If they still do it then talk with the store owner or stop going there. There's no reason to let annoying/sloppy players continue to damage expensive cards.

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