[DTW] Bant Survival

[Jak.]

Bant Survival

Table of Contents

1. Introduction and Background Information
2. The Lists
3. Card Choices
4. Cards Considered
5. The Sideboard Options
6. How to Play the Deck
7. Match-up Analysis
8. Accomplishments
9. Credits

1. Introduction and Background Information

Bant Survival is a GUw Survival deck that utilizes some new cards in the Bant colors to control the game and then win. I (Jak) got started on the deck when I wanted to incorporate a better late game into normal UGW Threshold. After trying Intuition, I realized how many good creatures there were in the colors of Bant: Sower, Rhox War Monk, Meddling Mage, Gaddock Teeg, Vendillion Clique, Tarmogoyf, Trygon Predator, Qasali Pridemage, etc. Trying to incorporate all these creatures was next to impossible in a regular Thresh shell and even worse in an Intuition deck. This led me to Survival. I drew up a rough list and posted it. I got good responses and realized a few other people have been working on this as well such as Waikiki. From meeting these people the deck has advanced enormously.

RGBSA builds have their advantages over this while this has some definite advantages over RGBSA. Why play this deck over regular Survival that has been around since the format's beginnings? Well, for one, this deck runs blue, the most powerful color in Legacy. Combo and Aggro decks are fast, and sometimes Thoughtseize just isn't fast enough to stop the first turn Nactal, Lackey, or even the the win against a Storm deck. Force of will gives the deck free disruption that matters before we get our first turn of the game and when we are tapping out to lay down out Noble Hierarchs, Survivals, and Tarmogoyfs. I hated the times of deciding whether to go first turn BoP or first turn Thoughtseize because the decision could end up affecting the game. With Force, you can both disrupt without altering your game plan. Blue also offers Faeries, which allow for some tutorable disruption and psuedo haste with their flash abilities. Another thing that blue gives Survival is cantrips. Survival builds have been trying to move away from relying too much on Survival over time because if you didn't draw it or if it didn't land, you lost. Enlightened Tutor was even ran for a time to go grab it. Cantrips allow the deck to play better without Survival, but to also find a Survival. The consistency to the deck is what will win games. Legacy is also seeign a surge in aggro decks. Rhox War Monk is one of the best answers to this with lifelink and a butt of four to withstand Bolt. The last thing that makes GUw worth running is Noble Hierarch. The card does so much in this deck that I would call it the glue that holds the power together. It accelerates you into your bigger plays, beats for 1 when it can't do anything else, and goes well with the subtle Exalted theme to win Goyf wars, pump War Monks for more life, and just make the weaker creatures beefier.


2. The Lists

Most of the lists appearing in this thread have all been converging towards the same list which is good. This is the core of the deck.

18-20 Lands

4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Rhox War Monk
1 Trygon Predator
1 Squee
1 Wonder

So that is 47-49 cards. Here are some lists from people who have been playing the deck extensively.

Jak
Lands
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains

Spells
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares

Creatures-
Accel
4 Noble Hierarch

Survival Package
1 Squee
1 Wonder

Utility
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Trygon Predator
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

Beaters
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Rhox War Monk
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Rafiq of the Many

Combo
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

SB
3 Path to Exile
3 Krosan Grip
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Genesis
1 Faeire Macabre
1 Rhox War Monk

Waikiki
// Lands
1 [P3] Plains (3)
1 [P3] Forest (2)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [A] Tropical Island
1 [A] Tundra
3 [A] Savannah

// Creatures
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [JU] Wonder
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [ALA] Rafiq of the Many
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
2 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
1 [DIS] Trygon Predator
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite

// Spells
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [LRW] Ponder
3 [DIS] Spell Snare

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique


3. Card Choices

Manabase: Green is still the most important color because of Survival so it is wise to limit the number of non green sources like Tundra or off color basics. 8 Fetches is to ensure you can grab any color you need since each fetch can get any color in the deck. The 4 basics in my list are helpful to prevent Wasteland and Blood Moon from hurting you. The deck has a very strong mana base with 18 lands, 4 basics, 4 Noble Hierarchs, and cantrips to help out.

Survival: The engine of the deck. I am not going overboard when I say that if this lands, you should win the game. If your deck is built to handle almost any situation, you win.

Swords to Plowshares: Best removal in the game. There isn't much else to say because there isn't anything better.

Cantrips (Brainstorm and Ponder): Amazing. Old Survival lists used to rely on Survival so much that they needed to run Enlightened Tutor. Now, most try to not focus as much on Survival so they can survive (pun intended) without it. In this deck, cantrips act as a way to dig and find Survival (which will hopefully win you the game), or they help you play without a Survival by sifting through dead cards (Squee and Wonder or excess lands) and finding Goyfs, RWMs, Cliques, Swords, Force, etc. The deck is just so smooth because of these.

Force of Will: Best counter in Legacy. If a Legacy deck runs at least 16 blue cards, it probably should run Force of Will just because of how fast the format is. Force helps land Survival, or helps you not lose before you can land Survival. I belive Force is better than discard in Survival because there is no more losing to top decks, you have a faster answer to combo, and it is free. You can run out your creatures with counter back up. There is no more deciding if you should Thoughtseize or play out your mana creature on the first turn.

[I]Spell Snare[I]: I feel it is mandatory to have more disruption than just Force. It gives you a more reliable way of landing Survival, disrupt combo, or play well when your best card isn't there. Spell Snare is the choice for me. This is very debatable and should be, but Spell Snare stops hate cards like Devastating Dreams, Sinkhole, Hymn to Tourach, Qasali Pridemage, etc while hitting powerhouses like Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Counterbalance, and that opposing Survival. Daze is also a contender for this slot because it is a broader card. The setback is tough with a mana hungry deck, however.

Squee, Goblin Nabob: Card advantage with Survival is the only reason this is here. It is usually the first thing I get with Survival if I am not in any trouble since setting up the Survival engine means Goyfs every turn.

Wonder: Wonder is the bane of all aggro decks. Continually flying over with a RWM or Goyf while holding back other creatures as blockers breaks stalemates to win games.

Noble Hierarch: This guy simply kicks ass. Fixing mana and helping the beats. In my opinion, one of the major reasons to play this over normal RGBSA. Birds of Paradise is just nothing in comparison. Noble Hierarch gives you access to all your colors, can swing into the red zone if it doesn't have anything to do, and pumps Goyfs to win Goyf Wars or pumps War Monks to gain more life. The Exalted mechanic is amazing at allowing you to keep swinging for large while holding back on defense.

Vendilion Clique: One of the most useful creatures in my opinion. The card should be run. It serves as protection/disruption, an instant speed blocker, and it beats for three in the air. Most underused card in the deck.

Trygon Predator/Qasali Pridemage: The best artifact/enchantment removal in the colors. Pridemage even adds to the exalted theme. Running both may seem unnecessary but having in out to Counterbalance is necessary so Trygon is a must. Predator is very good against Stax, Affinity, and Quinn so it is something worth running. Qasali is a card that I would love to add more of. I never hate drawing it. It can come online sooner than most things and can jump in and out of play taking Vedalken Shackles, EE, Deed, etc with it. It adds to the Exalted theme as well and can still beat well when alone on the table.

Tarmogoyf: Yeah...

Rafiq: It is the most explosive finisher since it can just come into play and you swing for 8 with a Vendilion Clique. Since most lists don't run red for Anger, being able to swing for the surprise win is what will win you games. The card is a powerhouse if it stays in play.

Eternal Witness: A good thing to tutor up to get back a fallen Clique or Rafiq. It is also some insurance if you expect Survival to get blown up. I have never hated drawing this.

Rhox War Monk: This guy can end up pulling you out of tough situations. The ability to just keep gaining life is something that Loxodon Hierarch, Kitchen Finks, or Ravenous Baloth can't do. With an ass greater than 4, Zoo and Burn have a difficult time of handling him.

[I]Loyal Retainers/Iona, Shield of Emeria[I]: A recent powerhouse that really surged in popularity. Shuts down removal in Landstill, CounterTop, Zoo, The Rock, etc while giving you a 7/7 flier for 5 mana. It is reliant upon Survival, but the value of having a tutor-able "I Win" combo is worth it.


4. Cards Considered

Natural Order/Progenitus: A great card that can easily slide into the deck. It essentially is an auto-win that is outside of Survival which makes the deck stronger from different angles. The downside is that it takes away from the core of the deck that is Survival.

Daze: This is debatable. Upping the free counterspell count helps versus control and combo. It makes the combo MU very favorable while also being able to hold back a control player from casting their Elspeth, Wrath, etc on turn 4. It does set you back tempo wise and in a mana hungry deck, this is frowned upon.

Anger: Haste is amazing in conjunction with Survival. This was run in earlier versions of the deck, but most people have cut it to keep the mana base stable. I think Rafiq and Cliques fill the "haste" role very well.

Jenara: This was considered as a finisher because it has evasion, it is blue (pitchable to Force), and it can grow big. However, it was a mana sink and I usually want to do stuff with that mana. It ends up taking a lot of time to grow which isn't what I want when I am tutoring up a finisher.

Exalted Angel: Again, considered as a finisher. It just ends up being overcosted for the Legacy meta and 4/5 is just not enough. The life gain was nice, but Rhox handles that slot well since it can come down much sooner when it matters.

Oriss, Samite Guardian: With Genesis, this can make a "Scepter Lock", but it needs Survival to set up. I find myself usually winning when I land Survival so I feel this is win more. If you need something to stop a horde of creatures, run Spore Frog which is much cheaper and easier to set up.

Tradewind Rider: I tested it and hated it. When you land your finisher, you should be able to close the game soon. This guy, horrible without Anger, takes a lot of time to put the opponent behind. You end up having to run Quirion Ranger and Anger to make him worthwhile which weakens the deck because you are just relying too much on Survival.

Counterspell, Mana Leak, and other 2 mana counters: The deck wants to tap out and play aggresive so holding back your threats or engine is just counter productive. 2 mana is just too much.

Sensei's Divining Top: Trying to run this does two things that I don't like: it lowers your blue count if you cut other cantrips or it lowers your creature count. It just ends up being a mana sink when the deck doesn't need one. I am not against running it in the SB alongside Counterbalance because that could be an effective board plan, but in the main deck, it is poor.

Counterbalance: Similar decks have run Counterbalance but it just makes Survival weaker. This deck is a Survival deck first and foremost and trying to do too much weakens that strategy to where you are running two weaker engines. As I said before, it could be decent in the SB to stop Loam, Burn, Combo, or Control etc.

Lorescale Coatl: The deck just doesn't run enough things to support it. It ends up being a weak topdeck which isn't what I want from a card in the "game-ender" slot.

Knight of the Reliquary: Like Lorescale Coatl, slightly better, but still is weak for the deck. It can't end the game fast like Rafiq, and unless you run a toolbox of cool lands (don't), it ends up just being a beater which the deck doesn't really need more of.

Riptide Lab: Yes, this deck does run Wizards that would be cool to be able to keep playing, but this is the Danger of Cool Things. You should be able to win on the tempo of countering a spell or Thoughtseizing someone and getting a beater.


5. Sideboard Options

The sideboard is tricky. In these colors (UGW) you have answers to pretty much anything you can expect to see. I have a list of about 28 cards that go in and out of my sideboard depending on what I expect to see. Being able to adapt to the metagame is something the deck can do well since Survival can grab your silver bullets, and there is hate for everything out there.

3 Path to Exile
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Genesis
1 Faerie Macabre

These answer a good range of decks that are tough.


6. How to Play the Deck

Usually, landing Survival is GG. It should be. If you are under pressure, you tutor up a Goyf or something to help you hold back Goblins. If you have time, set up. Tutor for your Squee and get your card advantage engine rolling. After that, it is pretty dependent on what you are playing against and the board situation. Survival wins you the game. The deck has answers to anything that might pop up so once Survival is down, keep chaining Goyfs or grab the answer to something stopping you from chaining Goyfs.

However, you won't always get it in play. Even though the deck is less powerful without it, it is still easily capable of winning the game. Brainstorm, Goyf, Force, Swords, Clique, etc keep you in the game. You have enough of the control and tempo elements to get you ahead in the game and beat in with Goyfs, Cliques, and War Monks. Most of the time I just forgo Survival because I am attacking for 4 a turn with just a Qasali Pridemage and Hierarch out.

The key to playing the deck is just knowing what to do in the right situations. I can't tell you that but playing the deck will. Getting the right creatures, leaving mana open to protect your Goyf from StP via Sprite, not overextending every creature, knowing when to pitch a Goyf to get your engine started and when to play it, etc. All these just need specific game situations and it won't help you if I try to list them. In the Matchup Analysis, I will try to go a little more in depth on what to look for and go for.


7. Match-up Analysis

Zoo/Sligh
This matchup is pretty even pre-board. The plan is to just survive the first 4 turns. Stop their first turn play and hopefully play Tarmo-wall. RWMs are incredible at stopping them cold in their tracks they either have the Path or you get a 2 for 1. Survival is great if they have a slower draw and is an auto-win if you can tutor twice with it. If you are lucky enough to get to five mana out and Survival in play, Iona can come down. You should name white unless you are in a situation where they can burn you out.

Goblins
This matchup is pretty much the same as Sligh except better. If you can keep Lackey off the table then it gets easier. Basically stall them until you can get the upper hand. Save counters for Ringleader and Swords Warchief. Postboard, having things like Paths and more life-gainers helps tremendously. We don't run mass removal like Masticore or Burning Wish-->Pyroclasm so being able to stall their attacks while you fly over is the main plan.

ANT
Not great. It is better than regular Survival, but it isn't too amazing. Mull to Force and hopefully you can get a fast clock plus a little more disruption. Postboard it gets a lot better since there are the bears (Teeg, Mage, Cononist) and more counters if you run them (Spell Pierce, Snare, Disrupt). Daze is also a strong card in the main that gives you more free counters. If you see a lot of combo and control in your meta, I definitely recommend adding Daze.

Aggro Loam
This matchup pretty much depends on the speed you have. Try to prevent Devastating Dreams from resolving. It really is devastating. There creatures get huge and something like Sower is amazing here. Fetch basics. Postboard, Paths, Genesis, and GY hate come in to get rid of their engine and threats. The MU is tricky. If you can stop DD, you should be able to win since you have all the mana you need. Luckily, more recent versions have dropped the card.

Landstill UWx
The MU is long. If you don't overextend into anything, you should do okay. You can turn off their Standstills by just flashing in a Faerie in response. Now, if they land Elspeth it is trouble since they can beat for 4 while they remove all your creatures. Nimble Mongoose is an amazing threat against them. Postboard, Genesis gives you the recursion you need, while Teeg can shut down their Forces, EE, Wrath, Disks, Elspeths etc. With Teeg, it definitely gets favorable.

Dreadstill
They run very little removal and you can respond to their Standstills well. If they run Green it gets a little tougher since they don't rely on win conditions that get hosed by Grip, in Tarmogoyf. However, you have ways to get around Counterbalance and you have enough hate to stop Nought from running over you. As long as you can setup your manabase, you should be fine. Bant Survival has a much better late game.

Eva Green
Hymn and Sinkhole suck. Hopefully you can drop Hiearchs and stabilize your mana. If you can do that, you should win since getting into the late game against Eva Green means you win. Spell Snare is incredible at stopping their hate cards. Path can come in to provide some help if their creature base is large.

Thresh CB
Our threat density is really high and they really can't stop it. Counterbalance is weak against Bant Survival and that is really the only card that can match the card advantage Survival gives. Even if Survival is not seen, we can keep the threats coming.

Thresh Tempo
They can disrupt your mana and burn Hierarchs so it is hard to actually get going. If you can get later in the game by fetching wisely then you can beat them with you better engine. With four basics and Heirarchs, they shouldn't be able to keep you off your mana for long. They don't have the fastest clock either so survive the initial rush and play out your dudes. Postboard Submerges are rough, as well as more hate for Survival.

Burn
I would say you are favorable preboard. You have some countermagic to delay them while you beat or dig for War Monk/Survival. Landing Survival means chaining RWMs which means you win. Match-up is easy.

Merfolk
Like Tempo Thresh, you need to survive early. They are also much more explosive than Tempo Thresh which means you don't necessarily have the same ammount of time to recover from a Wasteland. Picking off Lords and just playing bigger dudes is what usually does it. Postboard Paths to pick off Lords and maybe some Krosan Grips to hit Vials and Jitte.

The Rock
The builds of The Rock can vary. Some run a heavy Land Destruction theme while others go for more board control with Deed. Both options aren't very good for you. Dropping Survival later in the game is a much better option because leaving mana open so you can grab Witness or Goyfs in response to it getting Vindicated, Pridemaged, EE'd, Deeded, etc. Iona shuts down all of their relevant removal. Postboard, Paths are great at controlling the board while you beat down.

43 Lands
Rough. Kira is great main deck because it protects your guys from Maze of Ith and Barbarian Ring. You really have to rely on them not getting their engine setup and you having a fast clock. Postboard graveyard hate and Pithing Needles are the best bet. Shut down Ports or Wasteland, get a Kira down, and try to stop their engine. Iona on green is an instant win provided you can back it up if they have the Maze of Ith for your angel.

8. Accomplishments

http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?ty...&format=Legacy


9. Credits

A huge thanks to Waikiki for working with me to develop the deck. Thanks again, man.

I would also like to thank everyone who posted in the thread. The deck has improved immensely because of you.

[eq.firemind]

Hey, nice idea! The main reason I try to build this is that I want to play Noble Hierarch in Legacy.

About deck: I think you can cut Gigapede. You already have Genesis for lategame.

Another thing to do is to move Gaddock Teeg in sideboard. You already have 8 counterspells and Survival => Meddling Mage for combo and problematic cards Game 1. If you meta is full of aggro/burn, put 2-d Rhox War Monk of Kitchen Finks (Monk I think 'cause he pitches to FoW). In my meta 2-d Trygon Predator is the right guy. The new Qasali Pridemage would be great too.

I also think you need more creatures for your survival plan. I'd cut Ponders, but the problem is that you also want blue cards for FoW. The idea was to run 2 Ninja of the Deep Hours, but sadly it means you want Birds of Paradise instead of Noble Hierarch (well, I'll try this way, but I'm not sure it'll be good)

My crazy tech here is Oriss, Samite Guardian or Linessa, Zephyr Mage (better 'cause she's blue and has better first ability) to kick opponent off balance with Genesis-recovering Grandeur.

Honestly I don't like Daze here 'cause survival is very mana-intensive. The option is to run Stifles (as good as Daze against ANT), 1-2 Dreadnoughts and Trinket Mage+small toolbox. Or just run more creatures (Spellstuller Sprite + more faeries?).

I never run less than 21 land in decks with Survival that can't cheat a lot of mana (like lists with Vial or Survival Elves). 1 Dryad Arbor must be somewhere here, but with FoW restrictions it's hard to find what to cut.

That's all for now. I hope my ideas will help!

[Waikiki]

Hi Jak,

I've been playing alot with UGW survival allready and can tell you it's really strong! Mt first tournament with the deck brought me to a 9th place (52 players)

My matchups:

dredge 0-2 (didn't anticipate dredge decks only 2 in the field so had no sb for it)
ugb dreadstill 2-0
43 land 1-1 maze of ith etc takes alot of time :(
nassif list 2-0
Nassif list 2-0
elves survival 2-0


Overal the update list looks like:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [B] Savannah
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [US] Forest (4)
1 [A] Tundra
1 [OD] Island (2)

// Creatures
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [JU] Genesis
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [DIS] Trygon Predator
1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
1 [OD] Mystic Enforcer
3 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
1 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant

// Spells
3 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
3 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [BOK] Kami of False Hope
SB: 3 [VI] Natural Order
SB: 1 [CFX] Progenitus

The sb switch to natural order progenitus is reallly something people don't expect.

The faerie package is really really really awesome! sprites are tutoracle stp protection and later in the game even counterspells.

My favorite play is T1 hierarch T2,5 flash clique for removal and hit for 4 in your own turn.

Mystic enforcer was one of my testslots but he has won me so many games that im not going to cut it.

The open slots are:

rhox war monk
venser
eternal witness. yes she hasn't been of any use so far. Im just scared of cutting and untill the next set I do not have anything to replace it with.

SB:

The transformational sb progenitus NO.
Kami of the false hope. Good against elves survival and ichorid(even agains progenitus).
Hyrdroblast. Goblins and dragon stompy still need some extra fighting. Could be path to exile, but this can get cast from a basic land.

MM vs combo and aggro loam. Love em.
Krosan grip doesn't need explanation.

Cards im looking forward to:
The new WG exalted disenchant creature !

I hope we could tune this deck a little more cause it's very competetive.

Ohw and I called the deck b0b0'survival due to a inside joke.
But Bant survival will do I guess

[THEchubbymuffin]

Waikiki, wouldn't spore frog be better than kami?

[Waikiki]

I couldn't find one in my craploads of cards :(

[Black Mass]

I built a similar list a while ago with some succes

Manabase 20
5 forest
4 windswepth heath
4 wooded foothills
4 tropical island
3 savannah

creatures 22
4 noble hierarch
4 tarmogoyf
4 spellstutter sprite
2 kitchen finks
1 gilded drake
1 tradewind rider
1 Rafiq of the many
1 genesis
1 squee, goblin nabob
1 ethersworn canonist
1 eternal witness
1 harmonic sliver

instants 12
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plowshares
2 Bant Charm

enchantments 4
4 survival of the fittest


Side

4x Krosan grip
3x Blue elemental blast
2x Gaddock Teeg
1x Ethersworn Cannonist
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Sower of Temptation


I buit this deck when Rafiq was first released. I thought he could be breakable. With the printing of Hoble Hierarch, the deck just got better, Hierarch became my n°1 survival target. With a goyf in play an 2 hierarchs, one could wreak havoc.
Bant charm was an experiment and in my limited testing it came out quite good.
Rafiq is here pure for kill reasons, having a spellstutter sprite an a rafiq in play: that's 4 damage by a flying 1/1, rafiq himself beats for 8, not to speak about goyfs.

I based my build on other ATS builds, but the tradewind rider and the gilded drake will probably be cut for witness or ponder (in need of blue cards).

[Nihil Credo]

This is what I've been playing for a while. I, too, am of the opinion that Daze is pretty bad in the deck and that Sprite is really solid. Moreover, I think it is possible to fit Counterbalance in the deck with good effects - for example, you have much less need of lifegainers or combo hate.

4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Dust Bowl

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Knight of the Reliquary -> here working as just a Doran stand-in, might turn into Wisescale Sage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant -> may turn into Qasali Pridemage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
3 Survival of the Fittest
2 Swords to Plowshares

Sideboard
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Condemn
2 Krosan Grip
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Aura Fracture
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Genesis
1 Eternal Witness

[Waikiki]

imo CB doesn't really fit into the deck. Survival needs alot of mana and so does CB. Im not sold on it.

At least not with the playstyle I use.

[Jak.]

imo CB doesn't really fit into the deck. Survival needs alot of mana and so does CB. Im not sold on it.

At least not with the playstyle I use.

I sort of agree. Counterbalance is good in any deck with a curve for it, but here it seems to take away from what the goal is. IMO the goal is to play aggro with creatures using a ridiculous CA engine. It also controls the board using free counters and good answer creatures.

However, that is what I am trying to mold the deck into and using CB is another good route to go.

Currently, I am trying to find some creature removal that is tutor-able. The only things worth considering are Masticore and Intrepid Hero... There isn't anything like Shriekmaw. However, we still have Sower or Gilded Drake.

[quicksilver]

Well since everyone is psoting their pet UGW survival deck here is mine. It tok top 8 at a 39 person tournament. Basically it cuts out as many of the crappy toolbox creatures as it can and mostly uses survival for a card advantage engine to just spit out goyfs every turn.

4 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Windswept heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Counterbalance
4 Daze
3 Survival of the Fittest
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trigon Predator
2 Eternal Witness
1 Squee Goblin Nabob
2 Mystic Enforcer
4 Force of will

SB:
4 blue elemental blast
4 Tormod's crypt
4 Krosan grip
1 Survival of the fittest
1 Genesis
1 Fairie macabre

[Black Mass]

15 creatures, are you sure that's enough to make the engine running? I have some trouble playing 18 creatures + you don't have genesis in the main. So my feeling is that the first creature you pitch to your survival to get squee is a lost critter.

I'd also strongly suggest to play spellstutter sprite over daze. In 90% of the cases the sprite will be a hardcounter + it's survivalable (is that a word?), witch comes in handy too when you don't have another blue card in your hand to pitch for force of will.

[THEchubbymuffin]

I have been testing this deck and I can definately see potential in it. Even if it is not the best build I would play it because it is fun. This list is not optimized at all I will be testing it though to see what works.

// Lands
4 Tropical Island
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
1 Tundra
1 Island

// Creatures
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Eternal Witness
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Trygon Predator
1 Mystic Enforcer
4 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Meddling Mage
1 Wonder
1 Troll Ascetic

// Spells
4 Survival of the Fittest
3 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Meddling Mage
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Spore Frog
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Genesis

Some notes that I am testing.

Maindeck
Land count - I felt that I often was stuck with too few of mana and was too dependent on NH's so I am trying 21. Will probably cut to 20.

Umezawa's Jitte - I don't think this will be necessary as we use repeated Goyfs to stop aggro, and Sprites to stop burn. But I just want to test it.

Wonder - Even though most of our creatures are flying already. I think that this one card should win a couple games where my opponent thinks they can chump my goyfs.

Troll Ascetic - Nice trick with Jitte, just testing, and will cut if Jitte fails.

Sideboard

Mostly highlander to see what I side in. Explaining some strange picks.

Genesis - Most match ups squee is all we need.
Spore Frog - Saw the white one in Waikiki's SB. 1 mana combo stopper. Nice with Genesis.

Harmonic Sliver - Alara Reborn is not legal yet I think. Will be Qasali.

Aven Mindcensor - This one is what I want to test most. Fetches, Tutors, CIP abilities are all affected by this. Also I lost a game to a janky Prog deck earlier. I hold grudges sometimes.

Testing will be done on MWS so results should be inaccurate, but who expects anything more?

If anybody thinks some of these ideas are good let me know, because I am not good at deckbuilding, and want to see where I suck.

[crz87]

This is my list:
Dark Bant Survival

Lands: 19
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
2 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta

Cantrips: 10
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

Removal/Counter: 11
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

"Vanilla Creatures": 13
4 Noble Hierach
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
2 Vendillion Clique

Engine+Package: 7
3 Survival of the Fittest
1 Shriekmaw
1 Trygon Predator
1 Genesis
1 Squee Goblin Nabob


SB: (needs tweaking)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Meddling Mage
2 Trygon Predator
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Quasali Pridemage
3 Engineered Plague
3 Duress
3 Krosan Grip


Black gives access to Bob + Genesis/Shriekmaw recursion, and access to Plague in the board against tribal decks (Merfolks, Elves, Goblins). Duress gives a good MU against combo and opposing CB.

(EDIT: I'm shaky on the Manabase against moon effects, so I upped it to 19 lands, running 3 bobs instead of 4, akin to old-school Not-Quite-Survival builds. I'm not too sold on Sprite although I got owned by her when playing against Bant Survival. She seems good if you can chain up to 2 (with or without help from Survival). I would rather play Daze/Spell Snare since you want to avoid losing to CB lock early, and Daze gives you an edge against many decks.)


If I ran UGW Bant instead of 4c Dark Bant, I might go with:


17 Lands
2 Academy Ruins

4 Noble Hierach
4 Goyfs
2 Trinket Mage
2 Vendillion Clique

3 Survival of the Fittest
1 Genesis
1 Eternal Witness
1 Squee

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divning Top

Some sort of Brassman NLU Survival mix. EE with Witness + Genesis + Ruins is pretty good lock even if we destroyed our own Survival. I personally dislike CB-Top in Survival Bant, but I don't know what's the best shell.

Natural Order Bant Survival is interesting due to acceleration with Hierach and synergy with Survival + Progenitus, although we have trouble hitting 4 mana and avoiding daze effects. I might play with 2 Natural Order + 1 Dryad Arbor + 1 Progenitus, but I'm sure that list will involve 20 lands and some form of control with Daze/Spell Snare/CB etc.

Clique + Hierach is really a house: T1 Hierach, T2 clique disrupt, T3 swing for 4 + backed by countermagic.

[THEchubbymuffin]

@ crz
Have you tried spellstutter sprite? From what I have experienced, an active survival and sprites can be gg for an opponent. They are pretty good on their own aswell. Countering a 1cc card is good, but the fact that it flies not that bad with heirarchs.

Point of my post. Sprites are the shizz.

[Jak.]

4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
2 Tundra
2 Forest
2 Island

4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Trygon Predator
1 Eternal Witness
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Big Beater Slot (Quagnoth, Gigapede, Morphling)
1 Genesis
1 Squee
1 Wonder

SB
4 Krosan Grip
2 Meddling Mage
3 Back to Basics
4 Hydroblast
2 Rhox War Monk

This is what I have been working with. I'm trying to cut it down but I have been really liking everything. SB is geared towards control, aggro-control, and aggro. I probably should add stuff for Ichorid and TES. Maybe Chants and Crypts, but I never see those on MWS. I also may want to add more Sowers since they are so ridiculously good with most UG decks looking like they are adding 4 Coatls.

[Waikiki]

Nice to see you're liking the faery pack I suggested.
I think wonder isn't needed since most creatures you play allready got flying.

Myself am even trying to go up to 3 cliques. they are really good.

[Jak.]

Nice to see you're liking the faery pack I suggested.
I think wonder isn't needed since most creatures you play allready got flying.

Myself am even trying to go up to 3 cliques. they are really good.

Yeah, I love the StP protection. It also just seemed better than Daze in many aspects.

Wonder is really there to make Goyfs fly. Gets over Goblins, other Goyfs, Coatls, etc. I guess it is the weakest slot. I'll try cutting it.

I really want to incorporate a few things MD.

-Additional land
-Wickerbough Elder
-Meddling Mage
-Gaddock Teeg

Finding room is the hard part. I am pretty sure I want to add the additional land so I can get the mana I need to activate Survival and play a Sower if I have to.

I'm going to try...

-1 Wonder
-2 Ponder (Unsure...)

+1 Breeding Pool
+1 Wickerbough Elder
+1 Vendilion Clique

It ends up still being at 62 which I want to at least get down to 61.

Does anyone have any ideas for the big beater slot? Something that can come down and being larger than Goyf, Coatl, and Tombstalker, while hopefully having evasion or be hard to remove. Gigapede was my first choice since it is sooo hard to remove but I hate that it doesn't have evasion or a better toughness. Any ideas?

[Waikiki]

I use mystic enforcer as the big beater slot. I would rather run the pridemage because his exalted works great with the faeries. Yes its weaker vs CB but it's way faster. I do not like to have that many 4cc slots in the deck I run 19 lands +4 hierarch.

[Jak.]

I use mystic enforcer as the big beater slot. I would rather run the pridemage because his exalted works great with the faeries. Yes its weaker vs CB but it's way faster. I do not like to have that many 4cc slots in the deck I run 19 lands +4 hierarch.

This is true. I do like the Pridemage dude so running a few will go well with the quasi Exalted theme. Mystic Enforcer is also a favorite so that will at least be tried but I want to see how this (list at bottom) works.

Here is what I have going on to keep it most up to date.

4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
2 Tundra
2 Forest
2 Island

4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Quasali Pridemage
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Trygon Predator
1 Eternal Witness
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Genesis
1 Squee

SB
3 Krosan Grip
3 Meddling Mage
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Back to Basics
3 Hydroblast
2 Rhox War Monk

It Quasali ends up being better as a one of, then I would replace the two with an Enforcer. I also want to keep trying Wonder so that will be thrown into testing too. There is nothing like Flying Goyfs that get pumped from Exalted or Flying, Lifelinked, and Pumped War Monks.

[Jak.]

I finally had time to test this some more. Not a ton, just a bit more since I downloaded ARB. I do like the Pridemages since Exalted kicks ass but I realized that 3 was too many. Unless I need to destroy something, I won't tutor for them and they usually get pitched to Survival if I one in hand. They are still effective and I enjoyed it as a two of. Updated list...

// Lands
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [A] Tropical Island
2 [R] Savannah
2 [5E] Island (3)
2 [9E] Forest (3)
2 [R] Tundra
1 [DIS] Breeding Pool

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [JU] Genesis
1 [DIS] Trygon Predator
2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [OD] Mystic Enforcer
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [IA] Hydroblast

21 lands felt great. The deck has a low curve, but it is still very mana hungry and I never disliked drawing lands. I cut it down to 2 Cliques since I needed the room for an Enforcer. I'm unsure of the move since I have barely had time to test. I may cut a Pridemage to get the other back in since it is better if you draw it. Enforcer was good. I needed something that I could tutor up and be big and he was it.

I really only played against aggro. Sprites helped a bit by countering a a couple burn spells. Hierarch kicked ass. I love the card. I won soooo many Goyf wars and it gave me the mana I needed several times. Just awesome. The SB rocked and the games were a breeze. Tutoring up War Monks was broken. Sowers were okay but in a MU like Zoo they just get burned out so I boarded those out a lot versus aggro.

Basically, I am really happy with the list. It ran smooth. When I got Survival I won and when I didn't the deck still did well since I still run awesome cards.

I'm going to keep playing with this but the only change I would make is -1 Pridemage, +1 Clique. So far I have liked how it is.