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Thread: [DTW] Bant Survival

  1. #21

    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    I like your list very much. It is very similiar to how I would play Full English Breakst nowadays. A few questions:

    Did you test ~2 Wall of Roots and/or 1-2 Quirion Ranger instead of two lands and maybe 1-2 other slots? Wall is great with Survival and Ranger protects from Wasteland and makes mana with Hierarch.

    Didn't you miss BoP? I found that there are situations, where Exalted is so useless. And blocking a Tombstalker all day long with Genesis is more important (though I played a slightly other deck...)

    Why do you play so many Artifact/Enchantment hate? You have 8 counters, 1 Predatory, 2 Pridemage, 2 Clique, to deal with them. Isn't 1 Pridemage enough?

  2. #22
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    I'd keep with 1 pride aswell. Same for sower. Do you really need two? I myself went up to 3 cliques aswell. The card is just awesome. Did you miss daze at all? I was thinking about cutting it aswell.

    Also

    The new mythic angel? Does it have a spot in here? 3 mana 3/3 flier that pumps and pitches. Sounds nice but not broken.

    <edit> how cool is cold-eyed selkie with exalted?

    Also jak, your list only contains 18 blue cards. I find that a bit low myself. Im currently thinking about changing the enforcer to the angel just because it pitches.

  3. #23

    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    I have been fiddling with lists like these as well, and I right now I am testing a list very similar to Jak's list above. The big difference is that I consider pridemage to be a staple for the deck, together with noble hierarch they actually make spelltutter sprite a threat and a clique to beat as hard as a tombstalker. The fact that it is an awesome pre-answer to a lot of annoying permanents makes me think that I don't want to be dependent on survival to play them, and it is always a good 2-drop that is pretty aggro in itself.

    All this have led to the conclusion to play 4 of them. They are just that good. Now, finding room for them is the hard part. To start of with, I don't play any sowers, since I find them weak without counterbalance. How have you found sower to be? I haven't even tested them unfortunately, so I might be wrong. Otherwise, my list is the same as Jak's (above), so that means I only play 3 pridemage for now. If you would fit in one more, is there one card in the deck you have felt being to weak to justify?


    Edit: With the list I am playing (I still won't bother to post it, it is quite similar to already posted lists) I have serious problems playing Force of will with consistency, and I know it has been up for discussion already. How can we fit more blue creatures into the deck? Cards that come to mind include Pestermite, Gilded drake and Man-o'-war/Venser, that I also know has been suggested previously. Still, I find it hard to exceed 16-20 blue cards.

  4. #24
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    @Jenara. I thought a lot about it. The only thing I don't like is how it makes the white splash more prominent. I also like how Enforcer costs four since it easily gets around CB.

    @Wall of Roots/Quirion Ranger. I like Wall but it is such a weak draw. I really don't need the mana all that much. I think the disadvantage of drawing it late outweighs the advantage of accelling you into a faster Survival and blocking. It also cuts something from the deck. Quirion Ranger is good. I would like it more with Anger and Rofellos in the deck since it then does so much more. It provides a little combat tricks as well as Waste-proofing your lands. I just don't think it's enough.

    @Birds of Paradise. Exalted was amazing. It just made all the creatures Threats. Destroy Goyf and I still am attacking for 3 with an Eternal Witness. The flying thing is really covered since I have Sprites, Predator, Clique, and Sower (although I won't block too much with this).

    @Artifact/enchantment hate. I just like having it. If Pridemage wasn't around, I wouldn't run so much but the fact that it provides a reasonable beater as well doesn't make it dead when you draw it and your opponent has nothing on the board. I have cut it down but it may not stay down.

    @Daze. I miss it a little. Free counters are good in a deck that likes to tap out. The problem with it was how much it set me back. After cutting it, I realized that I really didn't need it. Unless combo is a large part of your meta, it isn't necessary, imo, since it sets you back too much in other MUs.

    @Cold-Eyed Selkie. Wow I forgot about the card and it looks pretty amazing with Exalted. Have you tried it? I don't know how many I would run but it seems really strong and gives you the needed CA when blue decks keep Survival off the table. Definitely interesting. Will try.

    If you want more blue cards like I do, I would just try to run 20. I plan to do this:

    -1 Pridemage
    +1 Vendilion Clique

    If that is too few, then...

    -1 Enforcer
    +1 Jenara

    I also am cutting a Sower for something. Either a War Monk, Wonder, or Gilded Drake. Unsure.

  5. #25
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    I have tried in a BANT aggro deck without survival but the selkie only shined in decks with islands. So I would suggest just running one. But then again if you got survival your allready winning.

    Im not sold on it. And yes im not really missing daze at all! I do miss the pridemage since I don't got it on mws yet.

  6. #26

    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    What about StifleNought in this deck? I play it in my FEB as alternative win condition. Essentially I play it in the place of Spellstutter and Cliques.
    What might be also nice then: Rafiq of the Many + Volrath's Shapeshifter + Dreadnought: Attack with an 13+/13+ doublestriking Trampler :-)

  7. #27
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    Take it to another thread :)

  8. #28
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    So in testing I have been finding myself to dislike Trygon predator a lot. It is just too slow. Qasali is much more of a surprise and is way faster. I might try out more Qasalis to see how they do.

    So I will tentatively do this:

    -1 Trygon

    +1 Pridemage

    This leaves me at 18 blue cards. I haven't had any troubles with the blue count so far, but that may change.

    I played a bit more, beating UWb Landstill in one game due to amazing CA via Standstill. Go go FLASH...ing in Faeries. I then went 1-2 to Mono Red Painter. I felt like my board was good for the MU but I just got mana screwed and then 2 Magus ended up leaving me color screwed. I'll try to test more tomorrow or something. Hopefully others are picking up the deck since it is a blast.

  9. #29
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    I know this isn't a traditional Survival List, but I can't imagine playing Survival of the Fittest without fitting Rofellos into the deck somewhere.

    You many also want to give some consideration to Loxodon Hirearch//Ravenous Baloth. I know these suggestions screw with the splash but one of them is a mana flare that walks (and is tutorable) and the other will help with what promises to be a problem.

    I like the Pridemage a lot more in this build than the Predator as he doesn't need to connect to be effective.

  10. #30
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    The thing is we do not need that much GGGGGGG We do not run any outlet anyways.

    I still think about going down to 3 survivals and add some extra cantrips.

  11. #31

    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
    I know this isn't a traditional Survival List, but I can't imagine playing Survival of the Fittest without fitting Rofellos into the deck somewhere.
    In traditional survival you usualy play anger + taiga to give him haste, this makes him a lot better. Also, you need a mana sink for him I feel, like Masticore or something, I like him a lot too, but not in this deck.

    Why play enforcer over Rafiq? Rafiq beats harder, makes other critters beat extremely hard, can pitch to force and is at 4. This guy makes every creature in your deck a threat to reckon with. I love him.
    Currently playing and testing:
    Faerie Stompy
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  12. #32
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    cause he likes to eat alot of removal. also he doesn't do much by himself he needs an evasive creature to be really good. Enforcer just kicks harder.

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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    Swords to Plowshares are still people's champion, so pro black is not so great.
    4 Noble Hierarch + 1-3 Qasali Pridemage are enough to turn Rafiq into the real beast.
    4 Spellstutter Sprite + 2-3 Clique + 0-1 Sower + Wonder are enough evasion IMHO.
    And my main argument: After landing Enforcer I need to wait a turn to attack. After landing Rafiq I can bash 4 with Spellstutter/Hierarch or 8 with my Clique/Warmonk/Pridemage. Enforcer beats for 6 every NEXT turn. Plain Rafiq beats for 8 AND can give you +3-5 boost NOW. Exalted Rafiq beats like hell and we have Survival to find Hierarch/Pridemage.
    So Rafiq is my choice here. Oh, and GY hate does nothing to him and he pitches to FoW!\

    Maybe try new Flying Flash Deathtouch 1/1 snake as pseudoremoval? is expensive, but IMHO needs a try (bonus:pitches to FoW).
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  14. #34
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    and rafiq does nothing as a blocker. Enforcer stops tombstalk whole day long.

    stp is the least scary removal for this deck thnx to sprite. snuff out is a problem. (alot of rock and eva green players in my meta)

  15. #35

    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    Who cares about tombstalker when you can race like hell. You can play enough chumper if you need to, eventually everything can be stopped. We have absolutely no removal that has the clause of "nonblack" on it like most black removal tends to.
    Next to 4 stp's we run 4 counters that manage it an most of you run 3 Cliques that can proactivly remove a tombstalker.

    If that is not enough according to you, we can also play bant charm, wich I'm starting to like a lot.
    Currently playing and testing:
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  16. #36
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
    I know this isn't a traditional Survival List, but I can't imagine playing Survival of the Fittest without fitting Rofellos into the deck somewhere.

    You many also want to give some consideration to Loxodon Hirearch//Ravenous Baloth. I know these suggestions screw with the splash but one of them is a mana flare that walks (and is tutorable) and the other will help with what promises to be a problem.

    I like the Pridemage a lot more in this build than the Predator as he doesn't need to connect to be effective.
    Well Rofellos really needs Anger like it was already said. It does give you a good boost but when it doesn't have haste, it ends up slowing you down just as much as it speeds you up. I felt like leaning toward the less explosive side and making the deck stronger without Survival was the better option. I have thought a lot about a splash of red but I really don't think it needs to be done.

    I think Baloth would be a nice addtion since it is StP proof and doesn't have white but my aggro MU is already pretty good and War Monks are usually just better at gaining life.

    @ Rafiq. His lack of evasion makes him a little less appealing. I think I might throw one in since it lets me win out of no where. I still like Enforcer because it does fly, however, adding Wonder might make Rafiq a ton better. Ditch Wonder for Rafiq, and deal 8 with a Clique.

  17. #37
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    OMG Rafiq is fun. I loaded up MWS to test him and the first game he allowed me to win out of no where. I was at 2 and he was at 12. I had Squee into Sprite to counter some key spells that would have won him the game. I finally was able to ge the mana to Squee in to Wonder and then Wonder into Rafiq to win with a Goyf. FUN! However, I had a solid board with Survival, Goyf, War Monk, and 2 Faeries. I would have won anyway. The thing I did like was that it was like pseudo haste. It felt like playing with RGBSA and winning out of no where.

    Edit-

    The MU felt really good. I did fall behind on play mistakes. Focusing on tutoring for Sprites to counter everything when I should have just waited. He almost killed me in response but I had the Swords for a Witness. I ended up being able to surprise block a few times with flash creatures (so amazing) to keep myself in the game. I felt in control the whole time because I was able to get a counter or a Pridemage to destroy Vortex or just combo out with Rafiq FTW. I really like Wonder and plan on keeping it in because it gives my best beaters evasion (War Monk and Goyf). I'm really undecided between Enforcer or Rafiq and plan to keep testing but for the discussion, the pros and cons.

    Enforcer
    +Pro Black
    +Flies
    +Big Body
    +4cc
    -Has white in the cost
    -GY dependent

    Rafiq
    +Makes other creatures stronger
    +Wins games out of nowhere
    +Blue for Force
    -Small body (can't block Goyf or Tombstalker)
    -White in cost
    -No evasion

    Please add to the list. Maybe fitting both in would work :).

    Edit- Rafiq is really good. I had to play against a deck that only gained life to fuel Well of Lost Dreams. Not that difficult, but from the games I noticed how much better Rafiq was post Wrath (I was Wrathed 3 times in like 15 turns). Two turns after the Wrath hits I was able to still swing in for at least 12 (eot tutor up Goyf, play Goyf, and then get Rafiq back via Genesis and play). I also noticed that he is still a sizeable threat. a 4/4 with double strike is pretty good. I think his offensive abilities outweigh wis crappy defense.
    Last edited by Jak; 04-30-2009 at 01:52 AM.

  18. #38
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    I will give him a spin since I want more blue slots. But I still think he wins the game harder when allready have a good board position.

    Enforcer is awesome when you got an empty board and looking to an opposing threat. Rafiq doesn't look good when your allready losing.

    <edit>
    We should call the deck Exalted Survival since the subtheme of exalted.

  19. #39
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    Sorry for double post. I've used rafiq and he does give a super punch in the face when landed. I like he's pitchable

    My newest list includes 4 ponder and only 19 lands.

    // Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

    // Lands
    4 [A] Tropical Island
    3 [B] Savannah
    4 [ON] Windswept Heath
    4 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [US] Forest (4)
    1 [A] Tundra
    1 [US] Plains (1)
    1 [US] Island (1)

    // Creatures
    1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
    1 [JU] Genesis
    4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
    1 [DIS] Trygon Predator
    3 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
    1 [FD] Eternal Witness
    1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
    2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
    1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
    1 [ARB] Jenara, Asura of War
    1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
    1 [ALA] Rafiq of the Many
    4 [CNF] Noble Hierarch

    // Spells
    3 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
    4 [MM] Brainstorm
    4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [LRW] Ponder

    // Sideboard
    SB: 2 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
    SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
    SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
    SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
    SB: 1 [BOK] Kami of False Hope
    SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 2 [B] Blue Elemental Blast

    Also the blue count is way better now :)

  20. #40
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    Re: [Deck] Surviving Bant

    Hey, guys, how do you feel about Jenara, Asura of War?
    I tested her a little and for now I throw her out replacing with Mistblade Shinobi (test slot, if Ninja fails, would be 4 Spellstutter, 20 land or 2 War Monk).
    She wants too much mana. I better search for Ragiq if I want to do some damage, for Qasali if I need utility or save mana for cantrips/Spellstutters if I feel the situation is ok.

    How many games you've won with her?
    How happy are you topdecking/cantripping her?
    How often do you search her with Survival?
    Anything else about her?
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