Let me know, if this is better than maybe 0 Ponder and 21 lands. (or whatever you played before).Originally Posted by Waikiki
Your list looks great, though I don't know if Predator AND Pridemage are necessary.
Do you like Survival at three? Drawing multiples sucks but then that also means you have one in play so you should be in a good position. I feel like the deck just gets stronger with it in play that maximizing the chances to see it by turn 2 is better.
I also want to hear how Ponders have been working out. The deck is mana hungry and having to pay one mana on turn three to find the third land seems pretty meh.
I thought you liked the faeries! Vendilion has been better than I expected and Sprite has been nice to tutor up to counter Tops, Swords, Bolts, Stifles, Dreadnoughts, etc and even sometimes getting Bob, CB, Goyf, etc. Why did you cut those numbers down?
I still need to try Jenara. How has it been with 19 lands?
I also am glad you liked Rafiq as well. I am glad I ended up listening to Black Mass.
Oh and one last thing, I feel Qasali is much stronger than Predator. I guess it does help the blue count, but being able to hit artifacts and enchantments as soon as the hit play is just better. It also boosts attacks. I want to fit in more.
The ponder's are good at finding survival/stp and land yes. They also boost the goyf strenght cause we lack sorcery.
I never had more then 3 sprites. I really don't like the 4th. But maybe i'll add it later on.
I found survivals clogging up my hand too often and I do not really need one that soon. and ponders help me dig when really needed. Im sure still needing to test more and will do upcomming sunday.
I just try not to be too dependant on survival. Just beating and combat tricks should do fine aswell.
@Jenerara. She kicked someone's ass but it could also have been a different creature. Maybe a 3rd clique just is better. But I was thinking about the legandary and well Jenara beats aswell.
yes, but both the manacost as the ability of jenara require white and we're in a sort of white-light build right now, i'd prefer Cliques, but I'll have to test them.
Currently playing and testing:
Faerie Stompy
Bant Survival
UW Tempo
Zoo
but he doesn't die to mogg fanatic. But well I also think that clique is better since it flashes and makes removal go away.
<edit> After some more plays with my teammate the choice was easily made - janara +1 survival
Has anyone tried Intrepid Hero? I wanted to a while ago but never got the chance. It seems amazing if you ever got to use his ability. Tombstalker, Goyf, Dreadnought, Terravore, Crusher, Coatl, etc. It handles the big creatures. I'll try one out to see how it is. Has anyone tried it?
Seems ok, but without haste I guess he'll be too slow. Had is been a "come into play" ability, I'd say go. But now he seems like a slow BGH.
Currently playing and testing:
Faerie Stompy
Bant Survival
UW Tempo
Zoo
So far I've only been impressed with the ponders.
For the creature destruction I would suggest the flying flash deathtouch coatl from the new set. But I've not been needing it beside 4 stp 8 cantrips and sower.
Is it getting too greedy to add a mountain and anger to this deck? I have been wondering this for a while. With fetches it should not be too problematic, and it adds the SUPRISE! Magus of the moon to the sideboard. The only problem is that both Heath and Strand can't get the same land...
It sounds too greedy to me, but would be awesome.
I have been wanting to just for the fact that it gives Survival a little more power and adding an FtK would be sweet. I tried it but I hated how it made the manabase. I needed to fetch a Taiga instead of getting blue or white. I have found that Rafiq makes the deck just as explosive. Magus is good too, but there is also B2B in my SB.
I am in love with Rafiq. It just ends games. I think it would be fine as another War Monk but that wouldn't be as fun. I ended up killing someone from nine by tutoring him up eot, playing a Pridemage and him the next turn to win with a 10/4 Spellstutter Sprite.
I also want to try the Snake (forgot about it!). I just need one slot!
If you look at my last build you could do - predator + coatl flash flying thingy.
I already cut Predator for another Pridemage and I really don't want to drop below 2. I could cut Wonder but it just wins games. Goyf is still the best thing to tutor up and giving it evasion to swing for the win makes the deck ridiculous. I'll try to squeeze it in.
If you add Anger, you can support Ovinomancer, which becomes an insanely good removal spell, over and over again. Returning Ovinomancer is part of the activation and not the resolution, so unless the opponent has a counter for it, they'll never get it off the board. I've run it in Survival before to good results.
Would the games have also been won by just adding more goyfs to the board or a clique kicking with rafiq? Seems to me when survival drops and sticks the win is almost there anyway.
Has anyone tried Bant charm? It does its job really well and it's very versatile. I played it as a 2-of and seemed ok in my limited testing.
It can help you vs combo, removes creatures and destroy artifacts.
That snake is tutorable though...
Currently playing and testing:
Faerie Stompy
Bant Survival
UW Tempo
Zoo
Returning 3 lands in a deck as mana intensive as this one is ridiculous. Having to return another 3 for the second use is terrible.
Genesis and Thornweald Archer or Genesis and Winged Coatl seems superior in pretty much every way.
This is where I'm at currently:
// Lands
4 [A] Tropical Island
2 [U] Tundra
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [US] Forest (3)
1 [ON] Island (2)
3 [U] Savannah
// Creatures
1 [JU] Wonder
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [ALA] Rafiq of the Many
1 [ON] Gigapede
1 [10E] Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
4 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [ARB] Winged Coatl
1 [JU] Genesis
// Spells
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
4 [5E] Brainstorm
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DIS] Trygon Predator
SB: 1 [FD] Eternal Witness
SB: 2 [US] Gilded Drake
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [5E] Hydroblast
SB: 2 [4E] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [PY] Spore Frog
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
The Coatl is awesome, it's Thornweald without the warning. I've had opponents terrified to attack after they've seen it the first time.
Wonder probably isn't necessary. It's nice for Standoffs, and can usually be fetched when getting Squee and Genesis, but when Survival is out, I suppose I should be winning anyway...
Is Jenara really all that good? It's pretty mana intensive, and I usually would rather spend that mana on something else. I didn't test it very much though, should I give it another look?
Read the card again.
Returning 3 lands in a deck as mana intensive as this one is ridiculous. Having to return another 3 for the second use is terrible.
...
...
You respond to the CiP trigger, with it's activated ability. Then, at the time, when the CiP trigger resolves, he is already back in your hand, so you don't have to sacrifice three lands.
Alright then, in that case it's merely conditional and tricksy, rather than outright terrible.
Coatl/Archer aren't dead when you can't stick a Survival, and Wonder gets your guys past their guys just as well when you can.
This isn't really true because it can easily be worked around, and actually may strengthen the manabase due to Noble Hierarch being used the turn it comes into play. Generally if you're fetching out a Taiga you're in a position where you either have Survival in play or am about to play it. If that's the case and you'd be cut off from blue or white, grabbing a hasted Hierarch is just as good, and will provide an extra boost the following turn. It allows you to actually chain 2-3 Hierarchs in a single turn and attack with something, and the following turn you could easily get Rafiq and just win the game. I think not running Anger in this deck might be a mistake because of the color requirements of the creatures. Needing to hit UW to play your best creatures can be rough, but being able to use hasted Hierarchs helps out tremendously, because a lot of the pieces of the deck are expensive and this list is mana-hungry. Otherwise it plays like a slower version than every other Survival deck. But also, given those color requirements, I wouldn't pursue other pieces of Anger-based lists, such as Rofellos. Just having haste alone is insane.I have been wanting to just for the fact that it gives Survival a little more power and adding an FtK would be sweet. I tried it but I hated how it made the manabase. I needed to fetch a Taiga instead of getting blue or white. I have found that Rafiq makes the deck just as explosive. Magus is good too, but there is also B2B in my SB.
Otherwise, these lists are very intruiging; I like them a lot. They're a bit slower than other Survival builds, but have a great game without Survival thanks to consistency with cantrips, and has a decent combo matchup. Between cantrips and a lot of cheap dudes the aggro matchup shouldn't be too bad, and Winged Coatl is a great option for taking down Goyfs and Tombstalkers and such. The only other issue I have is people removing Trygon Predator/Harmonic Sliver from the maindeck completely. I would run it alongside Qasili Pridemage, not cut it. The deck still has issues with Counterbalance, and not having that 3cc option can be a problem.
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