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Thread: Keep Mana Burn in Magic: the Gathering (One Million Strong)

  1. #41
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    Re: Keep Mana Burn in Magic: the Gathering (One Million Strong)

    Quote Originally Posted by Forbiddian View Post
    "Flavor" is more than a memory aid.


    Also, COD4 was pretty cool, I'm sure some people would play Slime Volleyball: Modern Warfare. But probably it wouldn't have attained 1/10th the popularity and it wouldn't be hosted as a tournament format at LAN parties across the country (Did COD4 make MLG?).
    Oh yeah it made MLG, it became a decently big deal. It's part of their big three now, Halo 3, CoD4, Gears 2. Along with some WoW 3's.

    It still pays out like 1/10th of the Halo prize though haha.

  2. #42

    Re: Keep Mana Burn in Magic: the Gathering (One Million Strong)

    They never should have had it in the game to begin with. I think people forget the weird, arbitrary rules we used to have. I'm thinking specifically of "tapped creatures don't deal damage" and "artifacts turn off when tapped". Those were both rules that were entirely justified by flavor, and yet the game is better off without them.

    [Incidentally, those rules also provide precedent for cards like Braid of Fire and probably Mana Drain. If they ever DID remove mana burn, Braid would probably get errata, as Winter Orb and Master of Arms (eventually) did.]

    However, that doesn't necessarily mean it should be removed now. I could go either way on that issue; making the game more in line with what it should have been all along is tempting, but the hassle of the established player base re-learning is significant. One thing I AM sure of, though, is that specific situations between specific cards like the Ritual vs. Chant scenario won't and shouldn't be a deciding factor. The important factors are things like, "Is this a barrier to new players?" Saving the combo player a few life points falls on the scale of importance about where killing The Mana Crypt Deck fell when they did away with the tapped-artifact rule*.


    *At the time, if you could tap Crypt in your upkeep, you didn't have to flip and risk 3 damage, making it a kind of improved Thran Turbine.
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  3. #43

    Re: Keep Mana Burn in Magic: the Gathering (One Million Strong)

    I was playing with Pulse of the Forge pretty much throughout its time in Standard, and burning myself for card advantage was one of the only parts of that deck I had to put serious thought into. It was awesome and if only for that reason I'd be happier to keep mana burn in the game. Oh, and I happen to like using Eladamri's Vineyard in multiplayer. Killing mana burn would nerf the hell out of that already pretty mediocre card.

  4. #44
    Brad Herbig
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    Re: Keep Mana Burn in Magic: the Gathering (One Million Strong)

    I totally agree mana burn should stay in magic, but refuse to join a facebook group due to the fact it will show up on my profile.

  5. #45
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    Re: Keep Mana Burn in Magic: the Gathering (One Million Strong)

    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    They never should have had it in the game to begin with. I think people forget the weird, arbitrary rules we used to have. I'm thinking specifically of "tapped creatures don't deal damage" and "artifacts turn off when tapped". Those were both rules that were entirely justified by flavor, and yet the game is better off without them.

    [Incidentally, those rules also provide precedent for cards like Braid of Fire and probably Mana Drain. If they ever DID remove mana burn, Braid would probably get errata, as Winter Orb and Master of Arms (eventually) did.]

    However, that doesn't necessarily mean it should be removed now. I could go either way on that issue; making the game more in line with what it should have been all along is tempting, but the hassle of the established player base re-learning is significant. One thing I AM sure of, though, is that specific situations between specific cards like the Ritual vs. Chant scenario won't and shouldn't be a deciding factor. The important factors are things like, "Is this a barrier to new players?" Saving the combo player a few life points falls on the scale of importance about where killing The Mana Crypt Deck fell when they did away with the tapped-artifact rule*.


    *At the time, if you could tap Crypt in your upkeep, you didn't have to flip and risk 3 damage, making it a kind of improved Thran Turbine.
    I totally agree with the sentiment here. It's kind of a stupid rule that probably shouldn't have existed but after 16 years it's seems pretty stupid to change it now. This isn't like the legend rule change; having mana burn in the game isn't restricting design, they can always add "doesn't cause mana burn" to cards they don't want people burning from, however removing mana burn from the rules will change other cards that "work" because of mana burn.

    Spectral Searchlight is a great example of this; the card accelerates and fixes the mana of any player but if you don't need the mana you can alternatively use the "any player" part to add mana to your opponent's mana pool at the end of their turn gambling on the fact they probably wont be able to take advantage of it and burn for 1. Spectral Searchlight is probably one of my favorite cards ever simply because it's design was just plain "cool" it was a "ping stick" that didn't cause life loss or damage and definitely one of the most memorable cards I have ever played in a pre-release. If it wasn't for mana burn it's likely Spectral Seachlight wouldn't be nearly as memorable as it is and is cause enough to keep mana burn in the game.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Keep Mana Burn in Magic: the Gathering (One Million Strong)

    I hate it when companies do crap like this. If it's not broke, don't fix it. I love mana burn. I like chanting in response to someone playing their third dark rit. It's hilarious, and I will be extremely upset if it goes away. In fact, I won't play any other way than with mana burn even if they do change it. This is just like when they re-errata'ed Inturrupts into Instants. That pissed a lot of people off, just like this will. Mana burn is a staple rule that keeps people from being gluttonous with their mana. It makes the math more relevant and also the game more fun. Not to mention it will make the actual text on Mindslaver look silly...

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  7. #47
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    Re: Keep Mana Burn in Magic: the Gathering (One Million Strong)

    Not to mention, a big part of suicide decks like Eva Green is to get a kick-ass start off of a dark ritual. It often leaves me burning for 1 after putting a bob into play or hymning the opponent, but this adds to the "I'm playing a deck that I hurt myself a lot in order to hurt you more."

    It's the flavor of black to have mana burn. I'm surprised they're thinking of removing it when they still print "hurt me, hurt you" cards like Putrid Leech. That card is perfect in terms of flavor and balancing. Getting rid of the hurt yourself for a better start openings really detracts from the flavor of a lot of decks, not just combo.

    And like I mentioned in a different thread before, I love dazing things against stax players when they only have Ancient Tomb untapped. It's like hitting them with a lightning bolt! Sure, they'll still take 2 instead of 3, but that just comes from them using their land, not the whole "I charged too much for this, now the energy has gotta go somewhere" logic of mana burn.

    Bleh, it's not like I'll quit or anything when they get rid of it, I just really don't buy into any of the "from a designer's point of view" arguments. If you're a designer, sure it might give you some cards like Glissa, Sunseeker type of cards, but it ruins all of the drawbacks behind using power accelerants like Dark Rit.

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