Page 114 of 262 FirstFirst ... 1464104110111112113114115116117118124164214 ... LastLast
Results 2,261 to 2,280 of 5231

Thread: [Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2261
    We are lost. We can never go home.
    Einherjer's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2011
    Location

    Noricum
    Posts

    1,475

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Counterbalance is very good against:

    Burn:
    Without CB - Even
    With CB - Very good

    HighTide:
    Yet to test - but it sounds well doesnt it?

    SlowStormcombo a'la DDFT
    Without CB - Even
    With CB - slightely positive, even without Top in play as Stormcombo-Decks need CC0+1+2 so it doesnt really care whats on top

    Reanimator:
    Yet to test - sounds medicore but not bad.

    Mirror:
    Without CB - Who has CB in SB wins?^^
    With CB - A gamebreaking card and is even strong without a Top in play

    So doesnt sound too bad?
    Once again, as were short of SB-slots I propose
    5 Slots for the CB
    4 Slots for Maverick
    4 Slots for GY-mechanics (maybe Leyline)
    2 for Stoneblade - we could take Ancient Grudge here but maybe Sulfuric Vortex is better?

    Greetings / critism appreciated :)
    My articles here, here, here and here | My current list | Follow me on Twitter | Questions I answered.

  2. #2262
    Member
    Blitzbold's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2004
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    127

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipp802 View Post
    Counterbalance is very good against:

    Burn:
    Without CB - Even
    With CB - Very good
    Depends on how fast CB lands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipp802 View Post
    HighTide:
    Yet to test - but it sounds well doesnt it?
    High Tide has some diversity in it's curve. You have to land CB as well as apply pressure here, otherwise they'll slow roll wish => bounce (Wipe Away?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipp802 View Post
    SlowStormcombo a'la DDFT
    Without CB - Even
    With CB - slightely positive, even without Top in play as Stormcombo-Decks need CC0+1+2 so it doesnt really care whats on top
    Even against *slow* combo you need to assamble CB + top asap. Depending on their list their basics + Chants tops the tempo plan. Resolving a chant-protected DD means game over, as we can't burn them out after DD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipp802 View Post
    Reanimator:
    Yet to test - sounds medicore but not bad.
    CB probably is too slow here. Depends on what to take out - maybe all our soft counter will buy enough time to land it. If it lands it's probably very good. On the other hand, Reanimator is able to slow roll and also contains a lot of free countermagic. Additionally, as the CB-Top plan isn't very new, they might pack Show & Tell postboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipp802 View Post
    Mirror:
    Without CB - Who has CB in SB wins?^^
    With CB - A gamebreaking card and is even strong without a Top in play
    Obviously. :-)


    Quote Originally Posted by Philipp802 View Post
    So doesnt sound too bad?
    Once again, as were short of SB-slots I propose
    5 Slots for the CB
    4 Slots for Maverick
    4 Slots for GY-mechanics (maybe Leyline)
    2 for Stoneblade - we could take Ancient Grudge here but maybe Sulfuric Vortex is better?

    Greetings / critism appreciated :)
    I like the idea of CB-Top in Canadian's board, but I also think that it doesn't help a lot against the bad matchups but rather just improves the even or favoured ones. Running only 3 CB also means that finding one in time won't be easy in quite a number of games.

    Don't get me wrong, I love CB, but I'd rather play a more 'classic' sideboard strategy in Canadian. CB might be better at the moment, especially in the US metagame, but I am not sure about the German or the European one.
    Conan, what is best in life? - To crush your enemies, see them driven before you... and to hear the lamentation of their women!

  3. #2263
    ad nauseam blind
    Tombstalker's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2011
    Location

    circles within circles
    Posts

    201

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    I like the idea of CB-Top in Canadian's board, but I also think that it doesn't help a lot against the bad matchups but rather just improves the even or favoured ones. Running only 3 CB also means that finding one in time won't be easy in quite a number of games.
    I agree with this. Also maybe its just me but 4 SB slots for maverick/bant/GWx aggro just isnt enough. Heres what im running atm and I still struggle sometimes.

    3 submerge
    2 mind harness
    1 spell pierce
    1 ancient grudge
    1 krosan grip
    2 pyroclasm
    1 sulfur elemental
    2 surgical extraction
    2 grafdiggers cage

  4. #2264

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Greetings.
    Has I decided to make a big come back for a 4 scrub land tournament (that I won undefeated) I decided to pilot the Kevin list with instead of the 2 forked bolt I ran 2 spell pierce.

    Has far as I am concerned I really loved the deck and how it was able to establish itself as the aggressor.

    I am currently going to a tournament of around 200 players for legacy in ottawa(canada) sunday.

    Reading trough all the list, match ups, argumentation, testing and tourney result, People in search of a new way to make this deck more viable in the meta game wanted to change the deck tempo shell, removing stifle and replacing them with spell pierce.

    People also tried to change the deck by changing the creature shell.
    at start wanting the addition of snapcaster mage then cutting the creature base to 3 mongoose to make it fit. People then realized snap caster was way too heavy on the manapool.

    Then I saw people wanting to put the deck on a more controlish base with the addition of the contertop package into the main deck.

    As I may not have found a solution for all those problem here is the list I think I will run
    sun day


    Lands

    3 tropical
    3 volcanic
    2 flooded strand
    2 misty rain forest
    2 scalding tarn
    2 polluted delta
    4 wasteland
    1 island
    ( I run those lands for sergical extraction and I guess wannabe pitting needle -.-)

    creatures

    4 goyfs
    3 mongoose
    4 delvers

    spells

    4 stifle
    4 Brainstorm
    4 ponder
    3 daze
    4 fow
    3 spell snare
    3 spell pierce
    4 lightning bolt

    artifact
    1 sensei's divining top

    Sideboard
    3 conterbalance
    2 sdt
    1 pyroblast
    1 red elemental blast
    4 tormods crypt ( I am currently wondering if sergical extraction is not simply better in general any tips would be welcome)
    2 submerge
    2 mindharness

    The main problem with the list is the lack of board control that for example 2 chain lightning would give me witch mean that in the maverick I really have to counter the stoneforge mistic or Im just a dead guy.



    -the 1 island.
    Seeing that we are siding in the contertop package in a lot of matchups and that we never want to get screwed with those waste land I decided to had a island to make the deck more stable and I liked it so far. Also, Im expecting some bloodmoon painter deck sunday.

    - creatures

    seeing has I am getting flooded by beater most of the time when I would like to draw control. I decided to cut the creatue count to 11. seeing as we board the cbt alot and that we have 8 cantrip maindeck. finding a beater within 2 turn is a lot easier then finding that spell pierce when you really need it!!

    -Spell pierce
    Considering I run 3 spell pierce main deck and that I only have 4 burn to control creature. I think I would have to take a more creature aggro control oriented side board to make the maverick, knight bant deck more viable.

    I am thinking of replacing 1 stifle by either a chain lightning or a dismember considering I am probably going to face alot of maverick and nic fit and that I am scarred of the match up^^.

    I wanted to post my list mostly for feed back and because as far as I think this deck needs to evolve. It will only do so by adapting to the current meta game.
    This list I thinks follows the idea pretty much.

    -On a side note having a hand with a stifle a mongoose/delver and a spell pierce is just devastating and since I like both card I dont think we should choose between one or another.


    ps: Has anyone else find sdt useless and sitting in your hand a lot? perhaps we could cut it up and simply make the contertop combo a 5 -2 sdt 3-cb in the sideboard (we already run 8 cantrip anyway.) also I read somewhere that you could consider the top as .5 of a cantrip making it viable to actually side out 1 ponder when siding in 2 top.

    so regarding that sdt maindeck. we could had up another burn or maybe put a 12 creatures instead. Im thinking here of maybe a phantasmal image since it also pitch to Fow and help us against the knight matchup.

    1 maindeck dismember isn't a bad idea either since it would pretty much do the same job as the phantasmal but it also turn nicely to cb. -sexy little tech right there^^.

    I would appreciate feedback of what you guys think.

    Edit: I just realised I would like to maybe fit 2-3 krosan grip/grudge in the sb. But where to fit them.
    Edit 2: red elemental blast and pyro blast are only good against matchup where counter top is already our sided solution to counter them. do you guys think 2 dismember would be better instead of them. Im really expecting to face the maverick match up minimum 2 time sunday.

  5. #2265
    Trample, Haste
    pippo84's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2009
    Location

    Italy
    Posts

    467

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    I will post my list and some comments about it. I won a tournament on Sunday with it.
    It plays more aggressively than usual Canadian because I wanted to have a better MU against aggro and Maverick.

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Stifle
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Fire/Ice
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    1 Taiga
    4 Wasteland
    7 Fetches

    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    3 Spell Pierce
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Ancient Grudge
    4 Submerge
    1 Repeal

    When I built the deck I wanted more Forked Bolts, but since I couldn't find them I played the full set of Chain Lightning and 1 Fire/Ice instead of 3 Forked Bolt total.
    Having lost of burn you can aim at the creatures in early game and shoot the player in mid game. This worked against aggro, control and combo.
    Having 12 creatures and 8 bolts was very aggressive and I never missed Spell Snare. Just burn the Stoneforge! The deck may have problems with fatties, but having a better clock than the opponent I just didn't care. When I played Dismember it was a dead card often.

    If I'll find time I'll post a tournament report.
    Btw in the tournament I never felt I needed CB + Top even though I played against MU's where some of you say that CB would have been useful. (Mirror, Stoneblade, Ant, High Tide).
    Team Stimato

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    He told you a foil from Time Spiral was Summer?
    This man must be a Jedi.

  6. #2266
    Gang leader of the Squirtle Squad
    I am the brainwasher's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    329

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    You got an quite interesting list here... .
    IMO it looks decent but a split of 3 Chain Lighting/3 Forked Bolt might indeed work out better for what this list is trying to accomplish.
    What should really concern you is the decreased number of pitch-cards to your FoW's.
    The complete lack of Snare and weaker Force's might be back-breaking sometimes, otherwise I like the look of it and changing it towards something like this is a good way to fight through Maverick and Stoneblade.
    In response...Hypothek!

  7. #2267

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Here is the list I've been testing with my group. We just cut the Spell Snares because they were lackluster in playtesting.

    Lands
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Taiga
    1 Island
    4 Wasteland

    Creatures
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 N. Mongoose
    4 Tarmogoyf

    Spells
    4 Fow
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Daze
    3 Stifle
    3 Spell pierce
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Forked Bolt
    1 Thought Scour

    Artifacts
    1 Sensi's diving top

  8. #2268
    Trample, Haste
    pippo84's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2009
    Location

    Italy
    Posts

    467

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher View Post
    You got an quite interesting list here... .
    IMO it looks decent but a split of 3 Chain Lighting/3 Forked Bolt might indeed work out better for what this list is trying to accomplish.
    What should really concern you is the decreased number of pitch-cards to your FoW's.
    The complete lack of Snare and weaker Force's might be back-breaking sometimes, otherwise I like the look of it and changing it towards something like this is a good way to fight through Maverick and Stoneblade.
    My list has "only" 25 blue cards for Force of Will MD, I think it's enough.
    I actually always boarded Force out except against combo decks. Anyways yes, as stated earlier more Forked Bolt would have been appreciated, but I couldn't find them. I also have to say that Fire/Ice was gamebreaking when I used it.

    I don't like Top in here because it's very mana intensive and does not flip Delver. Even with 30 drops I had problems flipping Delver in top 8!!
    When building the list I discussed on Thought Scour, but we decided that Chain Lightning was better because it kills opponents creatures or deals 3 damage and fills the GY by one. On the other hand Thought Scour fills the GY by 3, but it can mill useful cards and thus is better with Snapcaster (that does not belong to this deck).
    Team Stimato

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    He told you a foil from Time Spiral was Summer?
    This man must be a Jedi.

  9. #2269
    ad nauseam blind
    Tombstalker's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2011
    Location

    circles within circles
    Posts

    201

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Vedalken- I'm in the camp against CB, mostly due to sdt. Its just too mana intensive for us imo. That being said CB could function nearly as well without the top I think since 35 of your spells are cc1 anyway..frees up room for burn and more SB slots and that way you can still be aggressive instead of durdling top all game. Basically look at CB as a counter spell, if it catches one spell its card parity and everything else afterward is gravy.
    Regarding nicfit and grave hate in general I do prefer SE and I advocate for grafdiggers cage. This card has a bad rap since it doesn't remove the yard. What I've found is that it usually does the job long enough to win vs reanimator and it shuts down engines, which dredge and nicfit are both basically one giant engine, elves too. Also it stops dredge from flashing back an answer.

    I agree with you about reb blast although if you expect SNT the extra counters would be welcome. Personally though I'm tired of aggro so I dedicate the majority of my board to these Matchups. I can tell you that main deck forked bolt and boarded clasm effects go a long way here.
    Lastly I love dismember. It hits what I need it too although occasionally I have to 2 for 1 myself vs kotr but that's better than auto dead.

    Final ritual- sometimes snare sucks but its the only hard counter that 1 for 1 stops opposing goyfs, jitte, ooze, scm, thalia, sfm, gsz for 1 etc. I don't even side them out against maverick or bant because we need hard counters for some of these even if burn will handle a few.

  10. #2270

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    is there anything else that could replace the ponder.
    Having a sorcery when you want to stay open for a stifle is simply hella bad if they don't play a fetch.

    2 many occasion tonight where this actually made me rage because at my turn I cant tap out to seek what I am searching for.

    I cant actually remember what I was running years ago beside mental note or predict.

    Any not bad / good replacement for ponder a (u) instant???

    And can we agree on the fact that cbtop just doesn't help the match up that needs to be addressed with the sideboard slut. Its just not worth using 5 card for good matchup. Plus it open the spot of the sdt main deck that I want to play like 1 game every 10 game -.-.

    Any thought on phantasmal image. I just cant see it as a bad creature especially since it can copy our own threat like a flipped delver (witch does miracle) but also themaverick knights or mother of runes and since we run 8 fetch and 4 waste land...

    And I know this may sound rubish. But when do you actually want to play a 1 drop over staying open for that maybe stifle first turn. I found out that if I have mongoose in hand I prefer having my mana open since a 1/1 wont really change anything but If I have a delver in hand I prefer casting it first. also depend if I have a daze in hand or a snare/peirce. so what do you guys think on that turn 1 drop?
    I also like the fact that the mongoose becomes bigger faster with the 4 bolt / 3 chain /3 fork bolt set up. Im going to test it up

    I really like the burn split of 4 bolt 3 chain 3 forked bolt. although I would try to find the place to put in 3 spell pierce If I had no spell snare main deck.

    Edit 1: tombstalker. how is the sulfurous elemental doing for you in the side board so far. is it worth taking 2 slot? or u think just one of is fine since its also good against those 1/1 flying.
    Also, are the grafdiggers doing a good job for the gy hate, are there any other match up you would side them in better then for example tormods crypt? How is that singleton spell pierce working for you. I really like ur sideboard^^ it covers every bad match up we have.

    -Vedalken

  11. #2271

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Well I am glad to present to you the first rug aggro list with the chance to win against maverick pre board at 80-20. It might even be more I simply dominated everything he tried to play.


    land
    4 volcanic
    3 tropical
    4 misty rain forest
    3 scalding tarn
    4 waste land

    Creatures

    4 delver
    3 mongoose
    4 goyfs


    spell ( this is where it gets interesting I guess)

    4 lighting bolt
    3 chain lighting
    3 forked bolt
    4 brainstorm
    3 ponder
    3 spell pierce
    3 daze
    4 force of will
    4 stifle

    Well as the list is quite simple. hand with 3 bolt 1 delver where common and they allowed me to completely shutdown maverick post board.

    I went into 8-0 vs maverick in testing.

    I really like the deck now seeing as we keep all the mana denial( and even more vs maverick) we keep the controlish spell base. and we are able to make our delver and mongoose do a lot more pressure early game. ( note that mongoose fuel really faster with all those burn)

    I am so glad to have finally found a list that wreck bant and maverick preboard.

    Also in testing against combo the clock you put on them is way better.

    Finally the list goes charm against dredge first game. being able to bolt our own dude is fantastic.

    my last addition might be to cut 1 goyfs for a phantasmal image but this I think depends on the meta game. I like it because in the end it can pitch to Fow and since we have less blue spell now.

    Try it yourself its ridiculous.

    edit 1 :Well it might not be 80-20 but honestly I was so happy with the result geez it feels good to finally wreck the maverick match up. I will keep testing the deck but right now it just looks really solid.

  12. #2272
    ad nauseam blind
    Tombstalker's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2011
    Location

    circles within circles
    Posts

    201

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    I'm glad its working for you and i like your build although I'm skeptical of 80/20 but I'm sure the added burn is good vs aggro. I think most of us have turned to playing 6 burn, and some like you even more. I think i will try out chain lightning in place of dismember. I currently roll with 4 bolt 2 FB 1-2 dismember (or 4th goose).

    Tbh in your list I would consider boarding the 4th fow and dropping a single CL/FB to get the full set of daze and ponder. You don't want to lose velocity and stall out, and dazes alternate can be our card advantage with brainstorm against non mana denial. I'm gonna try this myself because the only games we keep the full set of fow in is vs combo anyway.

    Not a fan of phantasmal image, in theory, since we run few threats as it is so we don't want any more that are vulnerable to say..opposing forked bolts or anything else in legacy that says target, of which there's a ton.

    I'm really liking my latest side board although it can still change. Basically I decided not to pussy foot around my biggest most common problems anymore pretending it was enough. I wanna bring HATE.
    Cage is good. Some like it some don't. There's really 2 kinds of effective grave hate, one shot bombs like crypt and continuous effects like cage (relic is out for us). Both have merits but I like taking away flashback and forcing them to have an answer in hand rather than force me to react and gamble my answer. Against dredge I think its king. I usually only board it for decks that win with their yard but also against decks that run more than one engine, like gsz + NO (rug/bant) or nicfit because without stifle a sac'd explorer blanks a third of our cards. What other card can drop t1 and blank 7+ vital cards for us against these strategies?
    Sulfur elemental hasn't come out yet against tokens but it did kill mom a couple times and Thalia without being able to get pro red like against clasm. I'm undecided as of yet but so far not overly impressed. The ambush viper effect seems good but doesn't always net much value. Idk maybe I hold it too long looking for opportunity although maybe that's a sign.

  13. #2273
    Cash Money Baller
    BKclassic's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2007
    Location

    Maine
    Posts

    278

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Hey guys, here is the list I am running:

    4 Wasteland
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Tropical Island
    1 Taiga

    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Tarmogoyf
    1 Scavenging Ooze

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    2 Thought Scour

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Forked Bolt

    4 Stifle
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    SB
    4 Submerge
    3 Spell Pierce
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Sulfuric Vortex
    2 Sulfur Elemental
    2 Tormod's Crypt

    Here are some thoughts:
    -I really think that 8 1cc creatures is the way to go. You need a clock for Stifle to be effective, and having more than two lands in play isn't something we can count on. You don't want to have to tap out to play Tarmogoyf when you have Stifle in hand, and you don't want your hand to be clogged with Tarmogoyfs when you need to threaten Stifle or Spell Snare/Spell Pierce (or maybe Brainstorm).
    -The random Scavening Ooze is actually really awesome. It helps manage all sorts of late game problems like Lingering Souls, Knight of the Reliquary and Tombstalker.
    -I think the SB Sulfuric Vortex are pretty sweet as well. They attack the opponent from an angle that is hard to answer (like Mongoose), and make me feel better about not running Ancient Grudge to blow up equipment. Great against control decks.
    -I am not really sold on Sulfur Elemental yet, but I need to test it more.
    -If you are running Sulfuric Vortex and Scavenging Ooze, you are definitely going to want Taiga to make that more feasible. It should also help against Wasteland by preventing us from getting locked out of color.

  14. #2274

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    [QUOTE=Tombstalker;627966] Tbh in your list I would consider boarding the 4th fow and dropping a single CL/FB to get the full set of daze and ponder. You don't want to lose velocity and stall out, and dazes alternate can be our card advantage with brainstorm against non mana denial. I'm gonna try this myself because the only games we keep the full set of fow in is vs combo anyway.

    Well I really hate ponder right now in this deck for the simple reason that it is sorcery and I just hate taping out. But I still need it for draw so that's why its at 3. But I will prob boost daze to 4 and drop Fow to 3.

    Honestly the 10 burn makes the match up a joke. there is nothing you cant answer. the worst they can get is battler skull but 5 game in a row they never got to more then 4 land since I can burn the noble hierarch and a lot of time I can 2for 1 a hierarch and a dryad harbor. stifling the next fetch or waste landing a savanah and then just proceed to win with the delver in play. the worst was when they try to plow your delver at 2 mana and you simply brainstorm into a spell pierce.
    I played 5 other game vs maverick and went 4-1. the 1 game I lost was because He got 3 knight in a row and I couldn't handle them. with the sideboard, things would have been different.

    Before adding a fourth ponder I would put back the 4th mongoose for a burn witch I think I am going to do since I'm probably going to face some random deck and the extra beating will be useful.

    Also, why do you love ponder so much that you have to make a four of, you cant play it turn 2 most of the time because you play a drop. you dont want to play it turn 1 to fix ur hand because it leave you open to either waste land to either not stifle or to not be able to spell pierce any xenith for 0. I just hate the card-.-.( sorcery suck in this deck)

    On another note I tested phantasmal and it lost me a game more then it won me any so I'm removing it.

    I guess my sideboard for sunday will look like this. 2 surgical extraction 2 cage 3 dismember 2 pyroclasm 2 ancient grude 1 krosan grip. 2 submerge 1 mindharness.

    Is that too much aggro hate since I got that many burn now? I am Kinda not scared of combo at all so I don't think I should put any slot and if I do what card would even do the job? any idea?

    anyway thanks for taking your time to answer all my question^^

    -Vedalken

    EDIT 1: Bkclassic. How are the thought scour working for you?

  15. #2275

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Im playing the list that got second at the GP but I only have 2x Stifle available. Is it possible to play 2x Spell Pierce in it's place?

  16. #2276
    Gang leader of the Squirtle Squad
    I am the brainwasher's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    329

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vedalken View Post
    Well I am glad to present to you the first rug aggro list with the chance to win against maverick pre board at 80-20.
    I would be careful with such statements unless you've played against the cream of the crop with actual lists. I do understand that this list is tuned to whoop Mavs ass, (and looks pretty much like playing postboard already in g1) but Maverick is (as much as I hate to admit that) a very skill-intensive deck that is very complex. Don't underestimate the deck given it ti the right person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedalken View Post
    land
    4 volcanic
    3 tropical
    4 misty rain forest
    3 scalding tarn
    4 waste land

    Creatures

    4 delver
    3 mongoose
    4 goyfs


    spell ( this is where it gets interesting I guess)

    4 lighting bolt
    3 chain lighting
    3 forked bolt
    4 brainstorm
    3 ponder
    3 spell pierce
    3 daze
    4 force of will
    4 stifle

    Well as the list is quite simple. hand with 3 bolt 1 delver where common and they allowed me to completely shutdown maverick post board.
    Thought we were talking about pre-board here
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedalken View Post
    my last addition might be to cut 1 goyfs for a phantasmal image but this I think depends on the meta game.
    Please don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedalken View Post
    edit 1 :Well it might not be 80-20 but honestly I was so happy with the result geez it feels good to finally wreck the maverick match up.
    Don't get that all wrong, I think the list is fine, but presenting it as the wholy grail might be a bit overeager.
    I like that you didn't cut the Snare/Pierce completely (which I tested, and it was disgusting) and in this list Pierce looks awesome.

    A possible sideboard for that list might be:

    3 Submerge
    3 PB/REB
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Ancient Grudge
    +3 slots
    In response...Hypothek!

  17. #2277
    Cash Money Baller
    BKclassic's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2007
    Location

    Maine
    Posts

    278

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    @Vedalken- I think Thought Scour is great. It makes running 4 Nimble Mongoose significantly better. I also really like having 9 cantrips, and having 6 of them be instants is also pretty sweet since you don't have to tap out as much.

  18. #2278
    ad nauseam blind
    Tombstalker's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2011
    Location

    circles within circles
    Posts

    201

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Vedalken- Ive had the same thoughts about ponder being a sorcery but its the next best thing to brainstorm we have and brings a needed shuffle effect, allowing us to dig a virtual 7 deep under pressure to look for business. The right number is definitely open for debate though and maybe the increased burn density lessens the need. Unfortunately the only instant speed alternatives either dont cantrip spy network natural selection or else only dig 1 deep opt. Predict or magma jet are probably the best replacements for ponder but cc2 just seems to much lately unless its for a 4/5 beater.

    On a wishlisting note, if only there was something similar to flagstones of trokair for green then scythe tiger might be viable. A 1st turn shrouded nacatl is scary as hell. Sadly it probably wont ever be playable, and such a cool card too. I thought if I could make the whole deck cost 1 then the drawback might not be as noticeable. But then I tested it, briefly, as a 3-of, 2-of then 1-of and the results were pretty bad. Any crazy ideas here? Anyway I really like the direction these recent lists are going since CT needs to evolve.

    BK classic- I want to get on board with ooze for the reasons you listed but the mana investment seems pretty hefty and oozes impact looks limited with the low number of lands we prefer to run. Goyf seems to fit our aggressive nature better but id be pleased to be proven wrong! No GSZ is the other issue.

  19. #2279
    Cash Money Baller
    BKclassic's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2007
    Location

    Maine
    Posts

    278

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Tombstalker View Post

    BK classic- I want to get on board with ooze for the reasons you listed but the mana investment seems pretty hefty and oozes impact looks limited with the low number of lands we prefer to run. Goyf seems to fit our aggressive nature better but id be pleased to be proven wrong! No GSZ is the other issue.
    I would only really recommend it for a decklist with 4 Mongeese and Thought Scour, because builds with just 3 Mongeese and no Thought Scour are much more dependant Tarmogoyf to bring the beats. The way to think about the singleton Ooze is that it is like running a singleton Vendilion Clique, but with much more relevant utility and ability to steal games, as well as being slightly easier to cast. The card is definitely a mid to late game card and is not always the card you want to draw, which is why having one to find with cantrips is really the perfect amount.

  20. #2280

    Re: [DTB] RUG Tempo

    Well I agree about ponder being good that's why I keep the number to 3. plus I usually ponder to get control or creatures anyway so the added burn is simply more relevant to me.

    The guy I practiced maverick got top 8 with it in a 200 person tournament 1month and a half aggo and he is a irl friend. (He doesn't do major mistake and pilot the deck like it should be piloted I guess)

    today We played 5 2-3 and it went like this.
    game 1 win-win
    game 2 win-lose-win
    game 3 lose -win-win
    game 4 win-win
    game 5 lose lose.

    so I won 4 game of 3 vs maverick. some game I completly shuted him down and he couldn't play around my spell pierce and daze main hand while im killing all is mana producing.

    10 burn with 7 cantrip and a delver in play that he cannot deal is simply amazing.

    He won the last one because I never got a wasteland for is maze of it and he trolled my delver the whole game. ( well he only had to stop it for 3 or 4 turn to actually set up and then take advantage.) it was also the first game where he had 2 noble hierarch in game that I couldn't deal due to bad draw. and the second start well My mana denial plan didn't work and he had 2 plow main hand for my delver and a maze of ith for my goyf. he then drew a bigger knight and equiped the green blue sword and proceeded to rape me little by little -.-.( I was manaflood 2.)

    All in all. believe it or not but between 4 stifle 4 waste land 10 burn to deny is mana source you can pretty much face roll maverick and bant. all you need is to counter is creature removal witch is easy when he has no mana to pay for spell pierce or daze.

    Also I removed 1 fow for 1 daze and right now its doing miracle. having a daze in each of my hand is really amazing and if I know I dont need it I can always brainstorm fetch it into the oblivion of my deck.

    Well tomorrow I am going to the tournament with this list

    land
    4 volcanic
    3 tropical
    4 misty rain forest
    3 scalding tarn
    4 waste land

    Creatures

    4 delver
    3 mongoose
    4 goyfs




    4 lighting bolt
    3 chain lighting
    3 forked bolt
    4 brainstorm
    3 ponder
    3 spell pierce
    4 daze
    3 force of will
    4 stifle

    2 surgical extraction
    2 cage
    3 dismember
    2 pyroclasm
    2 ancient grudge
    1 krosan grip
    2 submerge
    1 mind harness

    Wish me good luck :).
    I'm also going to make a tournament report when I come back so...
    going to a friend house to see how the dredge match up is going to be.
    Hopefully the extra burn will make it to race them^^.

    -Vedalken

    PS: SPELLPIERCE MAIN DECK IS FREAKING AMAZING. IM NOT MISSING THE SNARE AT ALL OK THX BYE.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)