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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2381
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    On the whole stifle debate, don't underestimate its ability to screw over peoples brainstorms by denying them the shuffle effect. In a resource denial situation that play can be crucial. It also synergizes very strongly with pierce so running both is not out of the question. I do feel like it could easily be a 3 off though as there are matchups where i never ever want to see 2 of them.

  2. #2382
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    Played in a 48-man tournament yesterday, and finished 4-2, not too impressive, but not bad considering I'm not playing too much Magic these days. Finished 10th on breakers, two people at 4-2 in the T8 :(


    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Wooded Foothills
    4 Wasteland
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Tarmogoyf

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    4 Stifle
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Chain Lightning
    2 Forked Bolt


    SB:
    2 Sulfur Elemental
    2 Spell Pierce
    3 Submerge
    3 Pyroblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Nature's Claim
    1 Ancient Grudge


    My matches:

    U/R Delver (2-0). Won two tight games where he had lethal on the stack both of the times he died.

    Cephalid Breakfast (1-2). I won game one and he transformed his deck into a weird Fish deck, I lost game two and three to Sword of Body and Mind, the third with Ancient Grudge in the graveyard. I was stuck on a single Tropical and had four burnspells and nothing else on hand. That one was my fault, though.

    Sneak-Show (1-2). I won game one and then he topdecked his combo piece the last turn of the game with me having lethal on the board both times. It sucks, but it happens in this game.

    Affinity (2-1). Lost game one to a crazy draw, won games two and three easily with plenty of removal for all of his creatures and counterspells for Etched Champion.

    Belcher (2-1). Piloted by none other than hall of famer Olle Råde, so I was surprised to see him at 2-2. We played and discussed the variance in Magic and whether or not it takes away too much skill. In game one, he played a Charbelcher on turn one, and I didn't have the force, but I kept him off three mana for the activation, and when he did finally draw the Spirit Guide, I had Stifle for the activation. I lost game two to 10 goblins on turn one, and then I won game three on a mull to five; Delver, Daze, FoW, Bolt, Volcanic. Sweet.

    Mirror (2-0). I drew a lot better than him and kept him on 0 lands for game one, he had to mulligan in game two and I had plenty of burn for his dudes.


    Overall, I'm happy with most of the deck, but I really missed the fourth Ponder. I'm thinking about cutting a Tarmogoyf for it, or maybe even a Thought Scour to help Nimble Mongoose. Two mana is just so much when you want to keep mana open to Stifle and Spell Snare/Pierce, and Goyf just gets StP'd a lot :P Threat density was never an issue, in fact I often had more than enough creatures for the games I played, and sometimes wound up with dead draws because of it.

  3. #2383
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    I would always play the fourth Ponder. I've thought about cutting it in the past, but the information you gain from it (while increasing deck velocity) is invaluable.
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  4. #2384

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    I'm very interested to see how Thounderous Wrath play's out. I can very much see it being a one of in a thresh deck. What I'm really curious about is if we can actually respond to the Maracle trigger before playing the spell. For instance, can we crack a fetch to get the Volcanic Island, or do we have to have the mana in play when we draw the card. If it doesn't use the stack, then it's going to be a bit more dificult. It might also make our brainstorms a bit less use full as we're more likely to cast them at the end of our opponents turn. While a main phase brainstorm can still put the Wrath back on top of the deck, it's not quite as proactive in this situation as doing it EoT, and getting the delver flip + 5 damage.

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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    If there are enough Miracle cards worth abusing, Noxious Revival could be a way to push them even further over the top along with Bstorm, Ponder, Mirri's Guile/Sylvan Library and SDT.

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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Sun View Post
    I would always play the fourth Ponder. I've thought about cutting it in the past, but the information you gain from it (while increasing deck velocity) is invaluable.
    Yeah, my reasoning behind it was that with the higher threat-density, I didn't need to cantrip my way into threats as much as before. Lesson learned, I suppose.

    I mulliganed like crazy in the tournament as well, but thankfully most of them were easy decisions, no-landers etc.

  7. #2387

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by wcm8 View Post
    If there are enough Miracle cards worth abusing, Noxious Revival could be a way to push them even further over the top along with Bstorm, Ponder, Mirri's Guile/Sylvan Library and SDT.
    I believe the Time Walk is probably worth abusing.

  8. #2388
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Awaclus View Post
    I believe the Time Walk is probably worth abusing.
    It is difficult to say, at least before testing it. The thing is that two mana is a lot to us, so the Time Walk is an extra card and an extra attack step for 1U, which is great, but it probably has to be synced with other cards, like Brainstorm or Ponder to be useful, and it it's in the opener, it'll probably only be pitched to FoW.

    It's an interesting mechanic, no doubt, I'm just hesitant to say that it is worth including in the deck.

  9. #2389
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    I think aggro control is one of the best archetypes to gain value out of Time Walk.

    Edit : the situational nature of the card makes me think that *if* this deck is going to play it, it would only be as a singleton for the occasional mid-game swing. But in those cases, it's probably just win-more. So I think it's inclusion here is probably dubious. This deck cant afford having a dead draw early on, and as far as setting up the card goes, Predict is often just as good without being dead on its own.
    Last edited by wcm8; 04-10-2012 at 08:02 AM.

  10. #2390

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Purgatory View Post
    It is difficult to say, at least before testing it. The thing is that two mana is a lot to us, so the Time Walk is an extra card and an extra attack step for 1U, which is great, but it probably has to be synced with other cards, like Brainstorm or Ponder to be useful, and it it's in the opener, it'll probably only be pitched to FoW.

    It's an interesting mechanic, no doubt, I'm just hesitant to say that it is worth including in the deck.
    Two mana is a lot of mana, but on the other hand, an extra turn is especially valuable to a tempo deck. The reason why I said "probably" is because I'm not sure if 4 Ponders and 4 Brainstorms are enough for it to work like it's supposed to work and if 4 Brainstorms and 4 FoWs are enough for making it not completely useless even when it's drawn to an opening hand. I think 1-2 copies, probably 1, would be enough though.

  11. #2391
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    Hey folks. In my opinion, the best way to build RUG Tempo right now is something like this:

    Lands: 19
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    1 Island

    Creatures: 10
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Vendilion Clique

    Spells: 31
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Sylvan Library
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Forked Bolt
    4 Stifle
    3 Spell Snare
    3 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    SB: 15
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Blue Elemental Blast
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Submerge
    1 Ancient Grudge
    3 Sulfur Elemental

    -No Nimble Mongoose. Mongoose just isn't very good against Maverick and makes us susceptible to people's graveyard hate. Not having Mongoose definitely hurts against Esper and BUG control decks, but Sulfur Elemental is good against Esper and isn't useless against BUG since it has Split Second as well as Flash. Maverick is simply a greater threat than BUG right now, so I think this is the right call.

    -4 Tarmogoyf is an obvious choice when you aren't running Nimble Mongoose. Goyf is a fast clock, is resistant to graveyard hate and is better than Mongoose against Maverick.

    -I am running 2 Vendilion Cliques right now, mainly to keep the threat density high without Mongoose. 2 may be too many in a deck with 19 lands, but running a basic Island and Sylvan Library alleviate this problem to some extent by helping make sure you can get to three mana. It might correct to cut the Cliques and Sylvan Library for 3 Mongeese, but Sylvan Library is insane and Vendilion Clique is another three power flyer. Trygon Predator also seems like it could be a serviceable option for this slot as well, it would be better than Clique against Goblins since it has a big butt and could destroy Aether Vial game 1. Besides obviously destroying equipment, having an answer to Choke and more game against Enchantress seems good.

    -Spell Snare is a must right now, IMO. Maverick has tons of 2 drops we really want to counter like Thalia, Scavenging Ooze and Jitte. Spell Snare is the best answer we have for Thalia. For a while, it seemed like no one was running 2 drops, but it seems that the times have changed.

    -2 Sylvan Library. Sylvan Library is absolutely amazing and you all should be running at least 1. The card is like Sulfuric Vortex except it costs one less and is amazing against almost everything. It doesn't directly deal damage, but it does draw you into more threats and helps enable Force of Will. Channeling life into cards is great against Maverick and control and you can generally afford to go down to about 5 life. The extra cards drawn will keep your opponents back against the wall. Running 2 Sylvan Library is a big part of what makes cutting Mongoose possible, as it is a threat generator.

    EDIT- I am not sure that cutting the mongoose is necessarily the right call. I do think that 4 Tarmogoyf and at least 1 Sylvan Library are good right now.
    Last edited by BKclassic; 04-09-2012 at 04:45 PM.

  12. #2392
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    BKclassic- unusual choices since I think most of us are considering ways to drop goyf, even running gsz as more geese. I like clique but even in TA with 20 lands it was often hard to cast. That being said if your sold on clique id drop goyf for mongoose.
    I also ran library in TA and I loved it, but since dropping it from CT I've had better success and haven't missed it yet honestly.

    On the subject of TM I don't think this card is good for us although I want it to be. Costing 2 meaning cast on t3 at the earliest, plus being conditional isn't that good and our curve tops out at 2 already. We play mostly reactive on opponents turn so our best plays with it would likely be wasteland, or drop a beater or swing for 3. Thunderous wrath seems better for us. Speaking of which I got some games in with it as proxy, it ranged from ok to amazing. Probably main deck worthy. One game I flipped delver off it taking my maverick opponent to 11 then top decked another and won with a F/I (2 fetches). Another game though I probably lost because I sent it to the face instead of holding it like other removal.

  13. #2393

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    I think spells that do not do something when it is cast (Sylvan) is counterproductive to the strategy of tempo. Just my 2 cents

  14. #2394
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    Cutting creatures in Canadian is totally okay.

    BUT NOT THE MONGEESE! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

    Cut a Goyf and many Pros will say its good.
    Cut 2 Goyfs and it still might be good.

    But never never cut any of the 1 drops. They are so much synergetic with out gameplan. Stifle T1, T2 1drop + 1 Mana-Open is Tempos wet dream.

    I would cut Goyfs because they are very clunkey, totally tapping out for a wannabe-monster isnt what I want to do on T3. Still im playing with the 12 creature-setup and it's been fine.

    Sylvan Lib? What for?

    And honestly...who had the idea of this single basic Island? It's good when we play a Counterbalance-Sideboard but it's totally useless in a traditional Tempo-Build. Yes, great to have an opening Hand with Island, Waste and 5 other good cards ( most likely 3 blue 1 red 1 green ). So well..cut it.

    Greetings

    EDIT: TM is bullshit in Thresh.
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    So I'm testing miracle walk and thunderous wrath as 2 each. Contrary to my earlier statement I know but I think walk may be good for us. If this set gives us another quality one drop to finally replace goyf I think walk could be even better. A little too early to post any results though.

  16. #2396

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    Hello, I'm a newer player to the rug archtype (usually a stoneblade player) and i was wondering if their were any good articles to read so that I may prepare for Scg Providence. I of course plan on going through the source and read the posts. But if their was any additional sources of knowledge i would greatly appreciate it.

    (theory crafting on how to board would be great) not a boarding guide more so what is important in the main matchups, I'd still like to learn the deck, thus learn how to board with it.

  17. #2397

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    1off library is SO good in TT. U should really test that out. Dont think the miracle stuff is worth any slots.

  18. #2398

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    I might sound dumb. hell It might be ridiculous.
    We have no real conterspell beside force of will.

    I played so many game where my opponent where just playing around daze. where they never taped out for my spell pierce to be effective.

    -Can we plz redefine *tempo* In a format where everything cost 3 at max?

    I might sound ridiculous. But I think we have to bring back the old conterspell.

    The one that cannot be played around. the conter spell that actually stops that freaking knight to hit the table.
    The one that conters that damn sword to plow share on our goyf for 1.

    (I would run the extra island with it)

    At the last tourney, stifle sucked f****** balls. wcm8 actually explained all the reason it didn't do it for me and it is such a bad top deck imo.

    I just feel like every conterspell we have in this deck can be thrown to garbage because good player will play around them.
    Now you can say that this is what you actually want in a tempo deck. To buy time while they play around hand. But when they finally do land the killing blow the spell that cost you the game and that you cant do anything about. well you lose.

    Now let the flaming begins.
    Tell me your opinion on why would conterspell be bad right now especially vs maverick or bant or esper or any combo deck. I only see it being weak in the match up -.-.

    -vedalken

    ps- I dont like where this deck is going.
    I dont feel like we are going toward being the aggressor as a tempo deck except of the fact that we have those 1 cc drop.

  19. #2399
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    Obviously I haven't tested either miracle card yet, but here are my thoughts on them. I can definitely see the red miracle making an impact in the deck, how big will be determined. Truth is, we really want to be quick and this card gives us another chance of progressing that plan. On the other hand, I really don't see the blue miracle being an effective card for our game plan. Think of it this way, the blue miracle gives us another turn to effectively progress our aggro plan and imo we already have a superior card for that strategy in Snapcaster Mage and lately that card isn't even making the maindeck. Snappy is a better answer than the timewalk. It is more versatile, can fetch up that bolt to push through those last few points of damage. It can recast that crucial stifle or spell pierce or heck you get the point. If our decks have gotten away from playing Snappy, then I see no point really in playing a timewalk spell. Also, we typically want to lay down a threat on Turn 1 and protect it, how does a timewalk spell taking up mana during the draw step protect that gameplan.

    Just my 2 cents. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words with a side order of fries!
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  20. #2400
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vedalken View Post
    I might sound dumb. hell It might be ridiculous.
    We have no real conterspell beside force of will.

    I played so many game where my opponent where just playing around daze. where they never taped out for my spell pierce to be effective.

    -Can we plz redefine *tempo* In a format where everything cost 3 at max?

    I might sound ridiculous. But I think we have to bring back the old conterspell.

    The one that cannot be played around. the conter spell that actually stops that freaking knight to hit the table.
    The one that conters that damn sword to plow share on our goyf for 1.

    (I would run the extra island with it)

    At the last tourney, stifle sucked f****** balls. wcm8 actually explained all the reason it didn't do it for me and it is such a bad top deck imo.

    I just feel like every conterspell we have in this deck can be thrown to garbage because good player will play around them.
    Now you can say that this is what you actually want in a tempo deck. To buy time while they play around hand. But when they finally do land the killing blow the spell that cost you the game and that you cant do anything about. well you lose.

    Now let the flaming begins.
    Tell me your opinion on why would conterspell be bad right now especially vs maverick or bant or esper or any combo deck. I only see it being weak in the match up -.-.

    -vedalken

    ps- I dont like where this deck is going.
    I dont feel like we are going toward being the aggressor as a tempo deck except of the fact that we have those 1 cc drop.
    Mana Leak would be better than Counterspell, it hits everything and can be cast off a Dual and a Wasteland.
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