Okay I will give it a try, tell me what to play instead of my 4 Stifle. 3 Pierce 1 Burn or 4 Pierce?
Ill report back after a few days..lets see if it can surprise me.
Stifle is just great in this deck. It just fits perfectly the tempo role of this deck.
If you see this card as just a Sinkhole, you're doing it wrong. Stifle is just good against fetchlands in the first three turns (decreasingly efficient, just to add). After that, it's targets are various. I've stifled Maze of Ith's activation, Annhilation triggers, even Stoneforge ETB trigger and Mom's ability.
Spell Pierce does a good job protecting your Delver/Goyf, and might catch some boring spells. But this deck's goal is to disrupt your foe's mana, while beating with something, and saving permission for important spells. This is not CounterTop, where you can afford to counter everything.
If you just Stifle a fetchland because you can, you're doing it wrong. You have to see what's going on in the board, and if people are trying to play arround it. It's perhaps the most skillful card in this deck. Without it, Wastelands and Dazes become much worse.
Moreover, Spell Pierce sucks against Maverick, as it has been stated here several times. You might catch a GSZ and a Swords, and that's pretty much it. It's better off sideboard against matchups it really matters (like Storm, for example).
PS: Why you guys stick with Surgical Extraction? Tormod's Crypt should be this deck's first and best graveyard hate. It deals with KotR like a champ.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
More often than not a removal spell on your Delver/Goyf is the most important spell and the spell you need to counter.Originally Posted by Vandalize
This deck is king again because of 1 card.
Delver.
An opponent who plays around stifle and daze, to stp your insect, will win the game.
Spell pierce keeps this from happening.
When people run more lands, keeping mana open for stifle effectively time walks yourself.
Spell pierce, on the other hand, is practically a hard counter for most removal spells --
and any other wincon you might care about, for that matter.
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So nobody doubts the necessity of Spell Snare and the choice is between Pierce and Stifle?
I did..once. Then I started getting my ass handed to me by a mix of spells and creatures at 2cc. I even experimented with 3 each of fow/pierce/snare. In the end I returned to the tried and true sets with 3 snare. I just prefer having a (narrow but relevant) hard counter vs. daze 5-7 I guess. I think this is local meta dependent though since each has their merits.So nobody doubts the necessity of Spell Snare and the choice is between Pierce and Stifle?
Also I think im done toying with the new cards. They been ok when their good and really really bad when their not. Im now down to a single thunderous wrath as bolt #5 now. Sucks cause I had high hopes too.
For boarding against aggro, what is the correct card - rough/tumble or pyroclasm? I've seen lists go both ways.
Since you will likely only run one or the other I prefer pyroclasm. hitting flyers is more relevant across the spectrum now although the cmc of rough might occasionally matter and it doesnt hit delver either. If you include wrath effects I think clasm is the best option currently.
I've play tested Rough//Tumble, Pyroclasm, and firespout, and I've come to the conclusion that Pyroclasm is the best all around.
The day you take Rough//Tumble to a fight with a bunch flying creatures is the day you realize it's not that good. The things we want to wipe with this deck are: Spirit Tokens, Bridge Tokens, Burn creatures, any other swarmy stuff. The big one that Rough//Tubmble doesn't do is Spirit Tokens. If you to dedicate four slots in your board to whipes, you could include Sulfur Elemental as well.
As for Firespout, it gives you the option of conditionally wiping the board, but at CMC 3, it's pricey, and it requires you to have some very good mana set, which isn't always possible with this deck.
Pyroclasm is a good all around board wipe, it doesn't kill an active Mongoose, or a Goyf, so we still can generally keep our tempo. It does kill delver, but even if you get a 2 for 2 out of it, and still have another creature on the board, it was well worth the tempo swing.
I was playing at our little local tournament yesterday and finished 2-1, winning versus MonoB-Pox(!), UW CounterThopter and getting crashed by Maverick.
After this, even very very little tournament, I draw one simple fact as a conclusion. "Do not cut Stifles"
Guys I wouldnt have been able to win vs Pox or CounterThopter without these Stifles.
I playtested Pierces and I did not like them. Sorry
Greetings
Did you use sideboard like posted 2 pages back?
I am very interested in how did you side against maverick. I never doubht that submerge is good, but is it enough? And how was tarmo in this match?2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Surigcal Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Rough // Tumble
4 Submerge
Thx for answers in advance..
My Sideboard was meta-optimized - the one posted before would be my sideboard for a big tournament.
My side was:
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Submerge
Why so many Vortex? Because I expected a lot of Stoneblade and Control-Decks. It worked well.
Yes I know Pox is a bad MU and Pierce might be better overall, but Stifle won me G1 and G2 due to stifling his 1st turn Fetchland. I know I should practice more, but this deck isnt a deck at all to be honest and I hope I wont come across this on bigger tournaments like GP Gent
Sideboarding-Plans (I used)
vs: Maverick:+ 3 Submerge + 3 Vortex +1 EE, -4 Stifle, -1 Spell Snare -1 Goyf, -1 FoW
vs: Pox: +2 Spell Pierce +3 Surgical Extraction, -2 Forked Bolt - 3 Lightning Bolt
vs: CounterThopter: +3 Surgical Extraction +2 Red Elemental Blast +1 Pyroblast +3 Vortex +1 EE, -4 Delver of Secrets - 4 Goyf -2 Forked Bolt - 2 Stifle
I practised the Maverick-MU so often and I thought I was quite sure how to play but I had bad luck at both games. Mull to 6/ Mull to 5 and no strong hands either... So well
Greetings
so u don't play Sulfur elemental?
As Lingering Souls aren't that popular in my recent local meta I dont. For a wider meta I would play 4 Submerge and 2 Rough vs Maverick which is enough as long as I dont draw shit and mull bad.
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