[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

[Tombstalker]

This debate is endless and depends on what you will encounter. For example I removed snare for pierce yesterday and played against reanimator and maverick only. Pierce sucked against maverick and I actually lost one game due to resolved thalia while holding a pierce. So whats that mean? Nothing. Obviously pierce was great against reanimator (UB and mono B). Conversely stifle was dead against mono B reanimator (ya its a deck and mean one too) except for jin-gitaxias and animate dead triggers. Conclusion: all our counterspells are conditional so its a gamble either way. Choose what works for you. I tend to get caught up in the interweb debates when my local environment is nowhere near as complex. Ive dropped down to 3 of each other spell in the past to squeeze pierce main and may do so again but I think the tried and tested suite is best in an unknown meta.

Edit- So fade away: 4U put target permanent on to owners library. Miracle U. Seems good as pseudo submerge and against counterbalance, artifact/enchantment removal and jives well with mana denial if nothing else. Thoughts?

[wcm8]

Removal that requires setup and has timing restrictions is pretty much unplayable. I wouldn't bother with it

Also, Submerge is partly so good because you can play it in response to a shuffle activation. With this card you generally won't ever have that luxury.

[Tombstalker]

Those are the main issues but its effect is powerful being able to bounce any permanent to their library for U while dodging CB and snare and against reanimator its pretty much hard removal. I've been testing the miracles 2 at a time and this one and wrath both seem to have potential. So far I can't tell if I prefer the slightly higher consistency or the potential power of the miracles.

[Einherjer]

Please stop to suggest useless new things. The new TimeWalk was already borderline. This bounce is just over the top - USELESS!

[Tombstalker]

Haha dude chill. There's nothing wrong with some discussion over new cards. Fact is most players just net deck so a card isn't considered playable until someone wins a large event with it. I don't see whats wrong with some innovation. If these cards turn out to suck fine but I prefer this to endlessly revisiting the same staples and expecting different results.

[rancOr_]

I dont know why u all want to fit in spell pierce MD suddenly.. I mean its a perfect sideboard card for a reason. And swapping them for stifle/snare is so wrong.
For what its worth still rocking the 1off Sylvan and its been awesome every single time.

[Snap_Keep]

Hello all,

I have a question to ask about this archetype. I have a little experience piloting this deck and playing against it. I generally play tempo based decks in legacy, but just recently decided to hop on the bandwagon and build Can Thresh. More recently I've been playing Grixis Tempo and U/R Delver (which is more burn that tempo, I suppose). Anyway my question is about flex slots, I'm probably putting too much emphasis on construction here and should just focus on gaining more practice, but here goes. I have two flex slots which I have been changing between Chains and Fire // Ice. I feel like Chain Lightning gives to deck more reach and it being cheaper is very relevant as well. What I am leaning towards is F//I because of it's versatility, ability to kill a summoning sick Mom and a Thalia and the occassional miser's blowout where you Ice there only land on a crucial turn.

Do you guys think F//I has simply become outdated? Or is it just that there are better options (Sylvan Library, Dismember, 1-2 SCM?) for the flex spots?

Here is my list for reference.

x4 goyf
x4 delver
x4 mongoose
x1 scavenging ooze

x4 ponder
x4 brainstorm
x3 spell snare
x4 daze
x4 stifle
x4 force of will
x4 lightning bolt
x2 fire // ice

x4 waste
x3 scalding tarn
x4 misty rainforest
x1 wooded foothills
x3 volcanic island
x3 tropical island

sb

x1 reb
x1 pyroblast
x3 submerge
x2 ancient grudge
x3 surgical extraction
x2 tormod's crypt
x3 spell pierce

[Awaclus]

Hello all,

I have a question to ask about this archetype. I have a little experience piloting this deck and playing against it. I generally play tempo based decks in legacy, but just recently decided to hop on the bandwagon and build Can Thresh. More recently I've been playing Grixis Tempo and U/R Delver (which is more burn that tempo, I suppose). Anyway my question is about flex slots, I'm probably putting too much emphasis on construction here and should just focus on gaining more practice, but here goes. I have two flex slots which I have been changing between Chains and Fire // Ice. I feel like Chain Lightning gives to deck more reach and it being cheaper is very relevant as well. What I am leaning towards is F//I because of it's versatility, ability to kill a summoning sick Mom and a Thalia and the occassional miser's blowout where you Ice there only land on a crucial turn.

Do you guys think F//I has simply become outdated? Or is it just that there are better options (Sylvan Library, Dismember, 1-2 SCM?) for the flex spots?

Here is my list for reference.

x4 goyf
x4 delver
x4 mongoose
x1 scavenging ooze

x4 ponder
x4 brainstorm
x3 spell snare
x4 daze
x4 stifle
x4 force of will
x4 lightning bolt
x2 fire // ice

x4 waste
x3 scalding tarn
x4 misty rainforest
x1 wooded foothills
x3 volcanic island
x3 tropical island

sb

x1 reb
x1 pyroblast
x3 submerge
x2 ancient grudge
x3 surgical extraction
x2 tormod's crypt
x3 spell pierce

Why are you playing the Ooze? You don't have a tutor for it, it's a situational card and probably you won't draw it very often in the situation in which it's good if it's a singleton.

Many people, including myself, play Forked Bolt in the so-called flexible slots.

[Snap_Keep]

I play the singleton Ooze because I like playing 17 creatures and it's a great card. I'd rather play x5 goyfs but this is fine. What are you implying/trying to communicate in calling them "so-called" flex slots?

I have Forked Bolts but I feel like F//I does the the same thing for one more mana but has another card attached to it with a relevant ability. Plus F//I is an instant.

[Awaclus]

I play the singleton Ooze because I like playing 17 creatures and it's a great card. I'd rather play x5 goyfs but this is fine. What are you implying/trying to communicate in calling them "so-called" flex slots?

You called them flex slots. That's why I called them flex slots as well, to simplify the discussion. Normally I wouldn't, because the other slots are flexible as well if you want them to be.

[Hof]

Do you guys think F//I has simply become outdated?

On the contratry, it is more relevant than ever. Fire for the same reason that Forked Bolt is seeing some play, and Ice for tapping lands and large creatures (Ice on large, equipped creature + draw a card = Time Walk).

[catmint]

I played with Fire/Ice a ton and despite there is sick value out of ice sometimes, 90%+ of the time it is fire. 1 mana less is much more important than the instant speed. 2 mana is already a lot for RUG in times where you have to face thalia. Forked bolt or chain lightning are the better choices for the flex spots.

[spartan117]

I play the singleton Ooze because I like playing 17 creatures and it's a great card. I'd rather play x5 goyfs but this is fine.

First of all, your playing 13 creatures, and they're way too many, trust me.
Also, goyf is the worst creature in the deck, you'll understand it by yourself in short time. If i wanted to play any creature as a 5-off, it would certainly be Mongoose, that's why Caleb is playing a single GSZ. (and only 2 goyfs).

[Tombstalker]

I went back to F/I recently because I missed ice and instant speed plus pitching to fow. I had immediate problems with Thalia and friends so now I'm back on forked bolt. If your group has lots of maverick and bant bolt is better, or even chain. If not then obviously fire/ice is the better card.
On creatures I agree 13 is too many. Creature heavy hands are the death if this deck. Like many people I've changed to 3 goyf and max goose. Goyf is still the shit but I hate drawing multiples while delver and goose just win games like nobodys business.

So back to those 'useless' miracles, I'm calling it now, fade away will be a staple in this deck just not sure of the number.
Edit- spoiler language changed to 'Nonland' so never mind.

[from Cairo]

I went back to F/I recently because I missed ice and instant speed plus pitching to fow. I had immediate problems with Thalia and friends so now I'm back on forked bolt. If your group has lots of maverick and bant bolt is better, or even chain. If not then obviously fire/ice is the better card.
On creatures I agree 13 is too many. Creature heavy hands are the death if this deck. Like many people I've changed to 3 goyf and max goose. Goyf is still the shit but I hate drawing multiples while delver and goose just win games like nobodys business.

I think Forked Bolt is probably the better choice if one's actually trying to pad agro. The fact that it can answer opponents turn 1 plays on the draw is a notable plus over Fire//Ice.

I also agree with 11 creature configurations. 4 Delver, 4 Nimble, 3 Goyf; although the idea of 2 Goyf and a GSZ seems worth exploring.

I dont know why u all want to fit in spell pierce MD suddenly.. I mean its a perfect sideboard card for a reason. And swapping them for stifle/snare is so wrong.
For what its worth still rocking the 1off Sylvan and its been awesome every single time.

I'm trying a MD Spell Pierce - I think it has relevant targets versus the format, it's not phenomenal against creature decks, but it can randomly hit a piece of equipment, planeswalker, removal, etc.

The miser copy of Sylvan Library is a solid pick. I've been boarding it out in some of the faster/explosive match ups, but versus fair decks the filter has been phenomenal everytime it's come up.

I'm currently testing the following list:

Instants 21
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce

Creatures 11
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf

Sorceries 9
4 Ponder
3 Chain Lightning
2 Forked Bolt

Enchantments 1
1 Sylvan Library

Land 18
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Island

Sideboard 15
3 Submerge (Maverick/Bant)
2 Tormod's Crypt (Dredge/Reanimator)
2 Pyroblast (Hightide/Jace.dec)
1 Surgical Extraction (Dredge/Reanimator/Loam/Snapcaster.dec)
1 Engineered Explosives (Dredge/Maverick)
1 Flusterstorm (Storm/Burn)
1 Spell Pierce (Combo/Control/Burn)
1 Red Elemental Blast (Hightide/Jace.dec)
1 Guided Drake (Show&Tell/Reanimator/KotR)
1 Ancient Grudge (CotV)
1 Krosan Grip (Equipment/Random)

[Tombstalker]

A single gsz in place if the 3rd goyf definitely has merit. It counts as goose 5, increases our threat density (slightly each time cast) yet doesn't flood opening 7 like adding more creatures would. I like the idea.
Back on pierce, after testing uw miracle control I'm really starting to feel that pierce may need to replace snare in some number, and stifle is clearly main deck. Basically I think terminus will push out maverick and likely replace stoneblade so pierce may become better than snare. Anyone else care to speculate?

[Vandalize]

A single gsz in place if the 3rd goyf definitely has merit. It counts as goose 5, increases our threat density (slightly each time cast) yet doesn't flood opening 7 like adding more creatures would. I like the idea.
Back on pierce, after testing uw miracle control I'm really starting to feel that pierce may need to replace snare in some number, and stifle is clearly main deck. Basically I think terminus will push out maverick and likely replace stoneblade so pierce may become better than snare. Anyone else care to speculate?

Don't forget GSZ is also a shuffle effect for Brainstorm. And yeah, Stifle is definetely main deck.

[I am the brainwasher]

Top 8'ed a 89 ppl. tourney today.

Spiral Tide with Candles 2:0
Burn 2:0
R(bg) Goblins 2:0
Jund Nic Fit (w. Punishing Fire) 0:2
Dead Guy Ale 1:1
Burn 2:0
Maverick (w. Punishing Fire) 2:1

5-1-1

Might write a report.

[Raggedjoe]

I tried the GSZ but I felt that I couldn't front the 3 mana to get a Goyf. Maybe 3 Goyf + GSZ would be better?

Here's my current list.

4 Delver
4 Mongoose
3 Goyf

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Stand
1 Island

SB:
2 Mind Harness
2 Sulphur Elemental
3 REB
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Perish
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip

I really like the Pierces, I feel they give us a huge boost vs BW StoneBlade and UW StoneBlade. I also feel confidant in not needing sb cards for combo with them md. They are strong in many matchups and only weak vs Mav, though they can still counter GSZ, Library, and Elspeth.

I'm on the fence about the singleton grip sb... 3 is a lot :/

[cheerios]

Top 8'ed a 89 ppl. tourney today.

Spiral Tide with Candles 2:0
Burn 2:0
R(bg) Goblins 2:0
Jund Nic Fit (w. Punishing Fire) 0:2
Dead Guy Ale 1:1
Burn 2:0
Maverick (w. Punishing Fire) 2:1

5-1-1

Might write a report.

I'm interested in seeing your report. Played in 7 round tourney last night too, lost to Punishing Maverick, UR delver and Enchantress. Faced 3 different Maverick variants in my tourney (GW with stoneforge, GW with Fauna and Punishing Maverick) Any tips on burn and Punishing Maverick?