Thx Pherion for a very good answer! :)
So I have decided to start playing Canadian. Are there any current primers/articles available for this deck? I have a hard time figuring out which hands are keepable, when to leaven mana open for stifle and how to sideboard.
There is hardly a "do that, do that, dont do that" guideline for this deck. You will simply get better when you play this deck versus competitive opponents. I am very far from being perfect with this deck but I recognized a large improvement from when I started playing this deck.
So the main-guideline is "Play"
Greetings
So it seems most people have dismissed TM for this deck, but am I the only one who has been considering Thounderous Wrath and Vanishment? (Vanishment is probably only if your meta is really light on combo)
They seem decent in theory, but that doesn't always mean much so I was just wondering if anybody has tested them and found wether or not they could actually be viable?
An ideal hand has a mixture of counterspells, cantrips, 1-2 blue mana sources, and ideally a burn spell and a creature. You can't always expect to have 'god hands' with this deck, but you definitely want to be interacting on every turn in the early game. If your hand can't reasonably do -something- in the first couple turns, you may need to ship it back. Obvious mulligans are obvious (e.g. 5-6 lands with no Brainstorm, no lands at all, only a Wasteland, etc.) Daze is MUCH better on the play than the draw. Spell Snare is generally a nice card to open with as well.
I don't advocate playing Stifle personally, because it forces you to make plays based around something your opponent might or might not have/do. I fully understand that the card can be back-breaking at times (generally against weaker opponents), but Spell Pierce tends to be better all-purpose disruption.
If you know what your opponent is playing, there are some cards that you definitely want to look for in your opener. If he's on combo, you want some counterspells and a creature, or at least a Brainstorm/Ponder to find them in the first couple turns. You *need* to put them on a clock, so ideally it's not Nimble Mongoose since they can often rebuild their hand to a critical mass before you can kill them.
If your opponent is playing some sort of creature deck like Maverick or Goblins, you will want a burn spell and/or a Delver of Secrets/Tarmogoyf. Against these decks, you really want to kill their turn 1 Lackey/Mom/Hierarch or at least start to race early.
As for SBing, I am currently playing the following configuration:
4 Submerge
2 Rough//Tumble
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Ancient Grudge
I sometimes cut a card here or there to add in Life from the Loam and/or Pyro/REB, but lately these cards have not been necessarry.
Hey. I've been tuning a list for a while, and this is my lastest:
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
2 Forked Bolt
1 Chain Lightning
SB: 3 Submerge
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Rough//Tumble
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Gilded Drake
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
I've been trying to fit the 19th land, probably a Taiga or the 4th Volcanic. What should I cut? 1 Ponder? 1 Chain Lightning?
And should I cut 1 Goyf for a singleton GSZ, as some people seem to be doing?
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
GSZ requires u too play ooze also ,otherwise its just not worth it . So I wouldnt bother playing that. However u can cut a goyf and go with 11 creatures, it works just fine.
Ooze doesn't really belong in Canadian. Yes, we run the colors, but GSZing for him is more mana than we usually have, for one thing, and if I had that much mana I'd much rather be casting Snapcaster Mage. The other problem with Ooze is that with those three lands, 2 should be Tropicals, which will leave you in a position to get wasted off of red in the lategame. Being forced to play the third land will make your Brainstorms significantly worse as well. I think the only time I would be playing GSZ is in a very control heavy meta, so I could play extra virtual copies of Mongoose, and blank snares when necessary.
I fully agree thats why I said not to play ooze and if u want a 19th land cut a goyf:) works fine for me.
Hey, played this list to a 6-3 record yesterday at starcity ending up 29th.
Maindeck:
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library
Instants
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
Sorceries
1 Chain Lightning
4 Ponder
2 Temporal Mastery
Lands
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Krosan Grip
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Spell Pierce
3 Submerge
1 Surgical Extraction
I lost to Merfolk with chalice, UB Plainswalker Stax, and Tempothresh with life from the loam and savaging ooze in the last round. (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...s_james_v.html)
I won against: 2x elves with and without cavern of souls, 1 rug delver, 1 UR tempo, Sneak and show, and Hivemind.
The temporal mastery were never really bad, at worst they turned into cycle or a pitch to force of will. There were a couple games that it allowed me to win by giving me an extra combat phase.
@ Maagler
Was the one-of Dismember ever relevant? Seems less than optimal to me. Also, it seems that with this configuration, it could be a bit harder than traditional lists to get Sorceries into the graveyard for threshold and for Tarmogoyf. This could be due to fooling around with Temporal Mastery and less copies of Chain Lightning and/or Forked Bolt. Was that ever an issue? How did you like your sideboard? Would you change anything there?
Legacy
Grixis Delver
Vintage
Mono Mentor
Team Leovold
The dismember was not really relevant, every time I played it, it could have been another chain lightning and it probably would have been better. I did not seem to have much of a problem beefing up goyfs with a little help from my opponents, but then again I only ran 3 tarmogoyfs.
I liked the side for the most part; the only card I never sided in was sulfuric vortex. I think that all the cards in the side had potential to be useful, but I just didn't see any stoneblade like I expected. I think I might have wanted ancient grudge in the side rather then krosan grip, because I played again merfolk with chalice and the UB stax, which both dropped chalice at 1 against me.
In the game I played against James, he got way ahead with the savaging ooze, I really liked that addition to the side, swinging the tempo matches in oozes favor.
My thoughts on forked bolt are mixed. I really like it against Maverick but I would prefer chain lightning in most cases because of the reach that it gives the deck.
in the end I would probably change the list a bit:
-1 dismember
+1 chain lightning
side;
-2 sulfuric vortex
+2 scavenging Ooooooooozzze
The "traditional lists" ran 4 Ponder for sorceries.
I finished 7th out of 40 with this list: http://deck.tk/15m19QZx
2-0 Rb Goblins
1-2 BUG Control
2-0 MUD
2-1 Welder MUD
2-1 UR Delver
0-2 GWr Maverick
The match against BUG was really close and I lost because I wasn't able to apply any pressure during the first game.
I didn't stand a chance against Maverick. This could be based on my lack of experience in this MU (got blown out of the 2nd game by Choke), as well as a lack of Forked Bolts and/or better SB cards than Submerge.
I really liked the threat base (1 GSZ is amazing, even without Oozes), but I was dissapointed with Pillar of Flame. Though they're really good against Nic Fit (popular deck in my metagame), they aren't better than Chain Lightning or Forked Bolt.
Was it in Bochum?
Got 13th or so there.
I have played against 3 Mavericks there and one Nic Fit. And i figured the following: Rough // Tumble should be in your SB period. To good to not play it. Even helps you against those 22 Basic Lands aggro Decks or combo elves. And forked Bolt was really amazing. (Not only against Maverick) Also i would recommend 2 Dismember to you, as thex are pretty good against Knight, Ooze, Goyfs and stuff
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