The one thing that I still don't get: Why is Engineered Explosives such a common choice in Canadian Threshold side boards?
In which matchups does it really shine?
In any Counter Balance Matchups you're usually the agressor and need to play your beaters quite early. Thus it isn't that unlikely that EE blows up your own goyfs as well. Additionally, all the other CB hate is just far more efficient, imho. Trygon Predator is an evasive beater which can even be played proactively; Krosan Grip cannot be countered... EE is darn slow and usually needs two turns to get its job done (assuming you play it for cmc3 to avoid CB).
In aggro Matchups I question its effectiveness as well. Tribal aggro usually runs weird cmc's which weakens EE. Pyroclasm does a far better job. Other aggro, i.e. zoo or sligh, does not need to overextend to get you into burnrange. Thus EE is rarely card advantage and it gets even worse as soon as you got a beater yourself on the battlefield already.
Combo doesn't provide any good targets for EE.
Versus decks like dragon stompy, staxx, enchantress and other less common decks trygon predator, bounce and krosan grip do a better job than EE.
So I repeat my intial question: In which matchups does EE really shine? Did I miss anything?
Btw. my sideboard currently looks like this:
1 Trygon Predator (1 already in the main)
1 Disrupt
2 Hydroblast
2 Pyroblast
4 Submerge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroclasm
1 Krosan Grip
About the odd looking 1/2/2 split between Disrupt, Hydroblast and Pyroblast:
My meta is full of red decks (zoo, burn, sligh) and therefore I want 3 hydroblasts, however I also want 3 Pyroblast versus blue control. As Disrupt can be good against both decks, I run the 1/2/2 split.
I give you some months till you realize how suckey Needle is and that playing permanents besides the creature base is not what this deck wants.
a) you have a good mu against merfolk and goblins anyways. Needle is just win more in here.
Survival has usually shaky manabases and you can screw them over better then not.
Landstill has still too many outs against one needle, and you also have a lot of other cards you already want to board in that mu.
Why playing a card that just gets good in multiples?
If you don't shut off EE he's going to 2for1 you anyways.
b) my testing results with disrupt so far were just amazing. Against boardcontrol it's just a gamewinner since it disrupts keycards they need to stabilize the manabase [brainstorm] while drawing you another counter.
Never going to drop them.
c) I'm already spending too much energy on this thread with this post, people just can't discuss things over here; this post shows this as well
Yeah, right, because you said so?Thats definitely wrong.
Next thing you gonna say that we pack it to PoP?
@nrabbit
Pyroclasm > firespout because cc2 > cc3
And since we're running other burnspells you can still take the whole board, even when there are 2 lords on the table.
@ katakis
EE serves the same purposes as clasm and grip.
Against swarmaggro you take lot's of their cc1 critters and more important the vials and relics.
Against aggro, you take their nacatls, apes and relics.
Against aggro-control you take the cb AND their goyfs as well.
Against ichorid you take zombie token.
Against random combo running EtW you take those tokens.
Against the mirror you also take their gooses.
Against dragon stompy the card you don't want to see is chalice, blowing up the ee lets you take their chrome moxen as well and let's you play the denialplan as well.
Also don't you think that predator is too clumsy?
I mean, you need to attack with it and thats not always possible.
Just play more grips. Predator is just good, when you meta offers some Staxx builds.
ALso I just won't run BEB's anymore, they're hardly important against those mus.
Team Legal Actions.
if the matchup is already positive (which I actually doubt for Goblins), improving it doesn't make it win more by any means. Let's say the Goblin matchup is 60/40 in our favor. We still have a (4/10)^2 + (4/10)*(6/10)*(4/10) chance of losing (chances on being 0-2'd and 1-2'd).
The same holds true for Survival. The fact that we already have a positive matchup doesn't mean we can't improve it.
Landstill's only out to Needle they will have in their main is EE or maybe Deed in a 4C version (this is hardly played though). EE is one of the cards you're most scared off anyway, so naming EE is a good plan in any case. I've been in situations where shutting off Factory won me the game (this was in the late game after 1 or 2 EEs).
I've tested them too, but they were pretty bad for me. How do you board against landstill?
"Part of me belives that Barrin taught me meditation simply to shut me up."
-Ertai, wizard adept
http://solidarityprimer.proboards85.com/index.cgi
I'ne never talked about increasing good mu would be win more.if the matchup is already positive (which I actually doubt for Goblins), improving it doesn't make it win more by any means. Let's say the Goblin matchup is 60/40 in our favor. We still have a (4/10)^2 + (4/10)*(6/10)*(4/10) chance of losing (chances on being 0-2'd and 1-2'd).
The same holds true for Survival. The fact that we already have a positive matchup doesn't mean we can't improve it.
Landstill's only out to Needle they will have in their main is EE or maybe Deed in a 4C version (this is hardly played though). EE is one of the cards you're most scared off anyway, so naming EE is a good plan in any case. I've been in situations where shutting off Factory won me the game (this was in the late game after 1 or 2 EEs).
Just about the needle, don't get me wrong.
You also forget Vindicate in Landstill.
Also you always increase you winchances against any mu, boarding in cards, that act better than others. It's now about sideboard tuning I guess.
€dit: Key of the game is stifling the ringleaders. My win streak against gobs broke some week ago, when I lost at a ~80peeps tourney to it, but im still kinda 11-4 against this.
Depends on what I've seen g1.I've tested them too, but they were pretty bad for me. How do you board against landstill?
The no brainers are:
4 Disrupt
1 Krosan Grip
3-4 Blasts
1 EE
Out goes usually some Dazes, FI, Ponder, Stifle, Bounce(I play 2 Cliques and let them in, because they're winners here) and some Bolts.
I'm always boarding differently so don't ask me for numbers ;)
Team Legal Actions.
I'm pretty sure that is what you did here.
Okay sure. Still, in this case, they need both Vindicate and EE to beat a Mongoose + Peedle. This is still not a bad situation for you at all.
How is it a good plan to board out Stifles, which are a crucial part of your mana denial plan, and board in counters that are only good when the opponent is low on mana?
Do you really belive the 4 Disrupt are worth the slots if you're taking out Daze, which has a similar function?
"Part of me belives that Barrin taught me meditation simply to shut me up."
-Ertai, wizard adept
http://solidarityprimer.proboards85.com/index.cgi
Team Legal Actions.
I still haven't really heard a solid and complete sb strategy vs merfolk. Everybody's saying it's a good matchup, but you don't really seem to agree on the sbstrategy.
I'll try to sum it all together, something like this is what you are saying :
General Strategy :
- Leave stifle in against wasteland and relic
- Don't counter aether vial
- Keep a hand with burn or goyf
- Pithing needle=no good
- Don't board in krosan grip
So card by card strategy :
+3 Red elemental blast
+2 Pyroclasm
-1 Rushing river
-1 Daze
-1 Ponder
-1 Nimble mongoose
-1 Random (Spell snare then?)
You merfolk matchup winners, you agree with this? I'll try it out your suggestions. I'll let you know what this gives.
Eternal rating : 1826
Belgium, Europe
Uh, boarding out ponder is almost always wrong.
if you have 2 clasm and 3 REB as SB cards I would go
-1 daze
-1 bounce
-1 bounce (if you play two) if not than -1 snare
-2 goose
Goose is pretty bad post board because they have nothing that targets anyway but they do have one large problem for goose (Relic) which is why they arent as good post board.
Personaly I have been told by some rather good players that 0 clasms X lavamancer is the way to go because it helps make all the trible aggro decks even better than if you ran clasm. It also is soposed to be massivly helpful in the ichorid matchup (Yay for suicidal lavamancers!)
I c h o r i d - my anti blue
Manaless Ichorid- At least its cheeper than standard.
We admit for the sake of the exercise that following is true:
Landstill > Fromat
Non-Basic Hate > Landstill
Basics > Non-Basic Hate
We can therefore logically conlude that
Basics > Format
Naw, it's not.Uh, boarding out ponder is almost always wrong.
€dit1:Ok, I'll explain:
Boarding in a card that fulfills a "business"-spell role for a card that is supposed to find you business against that deck isn't that stupid.
But this is of course done not that often.
While lavamancer seems cool (I love that card) I don't think it can fulfill pyroclasms role against tribal.
Lavamancer is topdecked pretty bad and bites with mungo. Also being a 1/1 makes him quite fragile to jitte and he's also bad against opposing relics.
Besides that dredge is such a bad mu that 2 mancer out of the sideboard seems worse than clasm and EE.
Team Legal Actions.
I don't win so many matches against merfolks, it's a hard one. But I have to say that pithing needle has too many targets to say "= no good" and a permanent effect, contrary to stifle:
- Relic of progenitus
- Vial
- Mutavault
- Wasteland
So I think that stifle is not soo good in this MU because they don't have fetchlands and its targets/effects are poor:
- Relic
- Wasteland
- Standstill?
Actually I play this side:
4 Red elemental blast/Pyroblast
4 Submerge
3 Pithing needle
2 Pyroclasm
2 Engineered Explosives
So I think I will do the following or something like this:
+4 Red Elemental blast/Pyroblast
+3 Pithing needle
+2 Pyroclasm
-4 Stifle
-4 Daze
-1 Random card
So, what do you think about this card?
http://magiccards.info/4e/en/227.html
This morning I was searching for good sideboard cards against merfolks and see it, the problem is to pay the double R, but resolve this card against merfolks is GG.
Oi!
Needle hasn't all that much targets either.
You can't go for Wasteland because you are playing them yourselfes.
Stifle gets this one on the contrary.
Also for Mutavaults you still have you Wastelands, they're just golden here.
Also I never told anyone to dismiss needle, I jus said, that it isn't working for me and that you can pack them if you meta shows lots of Merfolk/Gobs.
But I still think that against anything else it's not worth it.
And whats with this passage?
Uhm, no you can't stifle Standstill.- Standstill?
Also if you have such problems against merfolk, why don't just run Merfolk Assassins in the sideboard?
Get's pumped by their lords and get's rid of merfolks better than lavamancer does ;p (j/k)
Team Legal Actions.
DCI L1 Judge, admin of www.BeNeLegacy.nl and member of Team Nijmegen (T.N.T.=Team Nijmegen Tendrils).
If people are looking for a specific hoser card for merfolk in red, which I can't imagine why as this deck is actually pretty good against them (REB in the board? Can you ask for something better?), but anyway why not try out a Spinal Villain or 2?
they haunt minds...
1) @ whoever said mancer wasnt good: mancer typicaly acts like a shackles only cheep enough to be playable, and the ichorid matchup is actualy bareable if you get goyf+ kill his bridges which mancer does half of.
2) You cant stifle a standstill RTFC
3) Needle is bad its just bad, you need to hit threshold turn 3/4 consistently this card seriously hinders that.
4) I really still dont think boarding out ponder is EVER right, its not as bad is boarding out brainstorms/forces but its still pretty bad.
I c h o r i d - my anti blue
Manaless Ichorid- At least its cheeper than standard.
We admit for the sake of the exercise that following is true:
Landstill > Fromat
Non-Basic Hate > Landstill
Basics > Non-Basic Hate
We can therefore logically conlude that
Basics > Format
Apparently David Caplan use to not think so. In his primer, he has the following sideboard with same main board he always runs:
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Trygon Predator
Granted new decks become DTB and discovering new cards (submerge) changes your board, but like a few others have already mentioned, Needle is a very good (permanent) answer to problematic cards you will be facing.
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." --Ash
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