Page 24 of 262 FirstFirst ... 142021222324252627283474124 ... LastLast
Results 461 to 480 of 5231

Thread: [Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #461
    Member
    TrialByFire's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2007
    Location

    Enfield, CT
    Posts

    704

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Quote Originally Posted by nrabbit View Post
    Do u guys find ever wishing Pyroclasm was Firespout? With the more lords coming into the picture (Merfolk, Goblins, and Elves) is Pyroclasm's 2 damage enough?
    Firespout kills your Mongeese. Pyroclasm doesn't. If you play correctly they usually do the exact same thing to their side of the board
    Still looking for FBB Lightning Bolts. German or Korean is preferred. PM me if you have them

    Quote Originally Posted by Slay View Post
    Drunk texting is ballin'. Anyone can slur into a phone, but it takes a real man to fumble over tiny buttons to make a semi-coherent message and send it to someone.
    -Slay

  2. #462

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    The one thing that I still don't get: Why is Engineered Explosives such a common choice in Canadian Threshold side boards?

    In which matchups does it really shine?
    In any Counter Balance Matchups you're usually the agressor and need to play your beaters quite early. Thus it isn't that unlikely that EE blows up your own goyfs as well. Additionally, all the other CB hate is just far more efficient, imho. Trygon Predator is an evasive beater which can even be played proactively; Krosan Grip cannot be countered... EE is darn slow and usually needs two turns to get its job done (assuming you play it for cmc3 to avoid CB).
    In aggro Matchups I question its effectiveness as well. Tribal aggro usually runs weird cmc's which weakens EE. Pyroclasm does a far better job. Other aggro, i.e. zoo or sligh, does not need to overextend to get you into burnrange. Thus EE is rarely card advantage and it gets even worse as soon as you got a beater yourself on the battlefield already.
    Combo doesn't provide any good targets for EE.
    Versus decks like dragon stompy, staxx, enchantress and other less common decks trygon predator, bounce and krosan grip do a better job than EE.

    So I repeat my intial question: In which matchups does EE really shine? Did I miss anything?

    Btw. my sideboard currently looks like this:

    1 Trygon Predator (1 already in the main)
    1 Disrupt
    2 Hydroblast
    2 Pyroblast
    4 Submerge
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Pyroclasm
    1 Krosan Grip

    About the odd looking 1/2/2 split between Disrupt, Hydroblast and Pyroblast:
    My meta is full of red decks (zoo, burn, sligh) and therefore I want 3 hydroblasts, however I also want 3 Pyroblast versus blue control. As Disrupt can be good against both decks, I run the 1/2/2 split.

  3. #463
    Ur tears of nerdrage taste so sweet to me.
    Wargoos's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2008
    Location

    Do not care.
    Posts

    319

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Quote Originally Posted by Cenarius View Post
    Thats definitely wrong.
    My sideboard runs:
    4 Submerge
    4 Pyroblast
    3 Pithing Needle
    2 Pyroclasm
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Krosan Grip

    Pithing Needle is awesome against:
    Survival
    Goblins
    Merfolk
    Landstill (Elspeth, Wasteland, Factory, Jace(, maybe ajani) and more. There are just so many good targets.

    Probably in a metagame with a lot of Merfolk and Goblins I would go -1 Submerge and +1 Pyroclasm. But that really depends on the amount of Agroloam, rock and Threshold ofcourse.
    I think Pithing Needle is definitely the way to go in your sideboard. Disrupts are just unneccesary (especially when running Force Spike's in mainboard instead of 1 Spell Snare and 2 bounce/Clique).
    I give you some months till you realize how suckey Needle is and that playing permanents besides the creature base is not what this deck wants.

    a) you have a good mu against merfolk and goblins anyways. Needle is just win more in here.
    Survival has usually shaky manabases and you can screw them over better then not.
    Landstill has still too many outs against one needle, and you also have a lot of other cards you already want to board in that mu.
    Why playing a card that just gets good in multiples?
    If you don't shut off EE he's going to 2for1 you anyways.

    b) my testing results with disrupt so far were just amazing. Against boardcontrol it's just a gamewinner since it disrupts keycards they need to stabilize the manabase [brainstorm] while drawing you another counter.
    Never going to drop them.

    c) I'm already spending too much energy on this thread with this post, people just can't discuss things over here; this post shows this as well
    Thats definitely wrong.
    Yeah, right, because you said so?
    Next thing you gonna say that we pack it to PoP?

    @nrabbit

    Pyroclasm > firespout because cc2 > cc3
    And since we're running other burnspells you can still take the whole board, even when there are 2 lords on the table.

    @ katakis
    EE serves the same purposes as clasm and grip.
    Against swarmaggro you take lot's of their cc1 critters and more important the vials and relics.
    Against aggro, you take their nacatls, apes and relics.
    Against aggro-control you take the cb AND their goyfs as well.
    Against ichorid you take zombie token.
    Against random combo running EtW you take those tokens.
    Against the mirror you also take their gooses.
    Against dragon stompy the card you don't want to see is chalice, blowing up the ee lets you take their chrome moxen as well and let's you play the denialplan as well.


    Also don't you think that predator is too clumsy?
    I mean, you need to attack with it and thats not always possible.
    Just play more grips. Predator is just good, when you meta offers some Staxx builds.

    ALso I just won't run BEB's anymore, they're hardly important against those mus.
    Team Legal Actions.

  4. #464
    Member
    Bahamuth's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2006
    Location

    Nijmegen, The Netherlands
    Posts

    482

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Quote Originally Posted by EaD View Post
    a) you have a good mu against merfolk and goblins anyways. Needle is just win more in here.
    Survival has usually shaky manabases and you can screw them over better then not.
    Landstill has still too many outs against one needle, and you also have a lot of other cards you already want to board in that mu.
    Why playing a card that just gets good in multiples?
    If you don't shut off EE he's going to 2for1 you anyways.
    if the matchup is already positive (which I actually doubt for Goblins), improving it doesn't make it win more by any means. Let's say the Goblin matchup is 60/40 in our favor. We still have a (4/10)^2 + (4/10)*(6/10)*(4/10) chance of losing (chances on being 0-2'd and 1-2'd).
    The same holds true for Survival. The fact that we already have a positive matchup doesn't mean we can't improve it.
    Landstill's only out to Needle they will have in their main is EE or maybe Deed in a 4C version (this is hardly played though). EE is one of the cards you're most scared off anyway, so naming EE is a good plan in any case. I've been in situations where shutting off Factory won me the game (this was in the late game after 1 or 2 EEs).

    Quote Originally Posted by EaD View Post
    b) my testing results with disrupt so far were just amazing. Against boardcontrol it's just a gamewinner since it disrupts keycards they need to stabilize the manabase [brainstorm] while drawing you another counter.
    Never going to drop them.
    I've tested them too, but they were pretty bad for me. How do you board against landstill?
    "Part of me belives that Barrin taught me meditation simply to shut me up."

    -Ertai, wizard adept

    http://solidarityprimer.proboards85.com/index.cgi

  5. #465
    Ur tears of nerdrage taste so sweet to me.
    Wargoos's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2008
    Location

    Do not care.
    Posts

    319

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    if the matchup is already positive (which I actually doubt for Goblins), improving it doesn't make it win more by any means. Let's say the Goblin matchup is 60/40 in our favor. We still have a (4/10)^2 + (4/10)*(6/10)*(4/10) chance of losing (chances on being 0-2'd and 1-2'd).
    The same holds true for Survival. The fact that we already have a positive matchup doesn't mean we can't improve it.
    Landstill's only out to Needle they will have in their main is EE or maybe Deed in a 4C version (this is hardly played though). EE is one of the cards you're most scared off anyway, so naming EE is a good plan in any case. I've been in situations where shutting off Factory won me the game (this was in the late game after 1 or 2 EEs).
    I'ne never talked about increasing good mu would be win more.
    Just about the needle, don't get me wrong.
    You also forget Vindicate in Landstill.
    Also you always increase you winchances against any mu, boarding in cards, that act better than others. It's now about sideboard tuning I guess.
    €dit: Key of the game is stifling the ringleaders. My win streak against gobs broke some week ago, when I lost at a ~80peeps tourney to it, but im still kinda 11-4 against this.
    I've tested them too, but they were pretty bad for me. How do you board against landstill?
    Depends on what I've seen g1.
    The no brainers are:
    4 Disrupt
    1 Krosan Grip
    3-4 Blasts
    1 EE

    Out goes usually some Dazes, FI, Ponder, Stifle, Bounce(I play 2 Cliques and let them in, because they're winners here) and some Bolts.
    I'm always boarding differently so don't ask me for numbers ;)
    Team Legal Actions.

  6. #466
    Member
    Bahamuth's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2006
    Location

    Nijmegen, The Netherlands
    Posts

    482

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Quote Originally Posted by EaD View Post
    I'ne never talked about increasing good mu would be win more.
    Just about the needle, don't get me wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by EaD View Post
    you have a good mu against merfolk and goblins anyways. Needle is just win more in here.
    I'm pretty sure that is what you did here.

    Quote Originally Posted by EaD View Post
    You also forget Vindicate in Landstill.
    Okay sure. Still, in this case, they need both Vindicate and EE to beat a Mongoose + Peedle. This is still not a bad situation for you at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by EaD View Post
    Depends on what I've seen g1.
    The no brainers are:
    4 Disrupt
    1 Krosan Grip
    3-4 Blasts
    1 EE

    Out goes usually some Dazes, FI, Ponder, Stifle, Bounce(I play 2 Cliques and let them in, because they're winners here) and some Bolts.
    I'm always boarding differently so don't ask me for numbers ;)
    How is it a good plan to board out Stifles, which are a crucial part of your mana denial plan, and board in counters that are only good when the opponent is low on mana?

    Do you really belive the 4 Disrupt are worth the slots if you're taking out Daze, which has a similar function?
    "Part of me belives that Barrin taught me meditation simply to shut me up."

    -Ertai, wizard adept

    http://solidarityprimer.proboards85.com/index.cgi

  7. #467
    Ur tears of nerdrage taste so sweet to me.
    Wargoos's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2008
    Location

    Do not care.
    Posts

    319

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Quote Originally Posted by Bahamuth View Post
    I'm pretty sure that is what you did here.



    Okay sure. Still, in this case, they need both Vindicate and EE to beat a Mongoose + Peedle. This is still not a bad situation for you at all.





    How is it a good plan to board out Stifles, which are a crucial part of your mana denial plan, and board in counters that are only good when the opponent is low on mana?

    Do you really belive the 4 Disrupt are worth the slots if you're taking out Daze, which has a similar function?
    The numbers are the important thing. And those cards are the only thing I dedicate to be boardable.
    I also forgot to mention Spell Snares,of which I would swap some for Blasts.

    And while you're pretty sure, look that I'm writing about the Needle and not the commonalty.
    Team Legal Actions.

  8. #468
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2004
    Location

    Belgium-Europe
    Posts

    32

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    I still haven't really heard a solid and complete sb strategy vs merfolk. Everybody's saying it's a good matchup, but you don't really seem to agree on the sbstrategy.

    I'll try to sum it all together, something like this is what you are saying :

    General Strategy :
    - Leave stifle in against wasteland and relic
    - Don't counter aether vial
    - Keep a hand with burn or goyf
    - Pithing needle=no good
    - Don't board in krosan grip

    So card by card strategy :
    +3 Red elemental blast
    +2 Pyroclasm
    -1 Rushing river
    -1 Daze
    -1 Ponder
    -1 Nimble mongoose
    -1 Random (Spell snare then?)

    You merfolk matchup winners, you agree with this? I'll try it out your suggestions. I'll let you know what this gives.
    Eternal rating : 1826
    Belgium, Europe

  9. #469

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Uh, boarding out ponder is almost always wrong.

    if you have 2 clasm and 3 REB as SB cards I would go

    -1 daze
    -1 bounce
    -1 bounce (if you play two) if not than -1 snare
    -2 goose

    Goose is pretty bad post board because they have nothing that targets anyway but they do have one large problem for goose (Relic) which is why they arent as good post board.

    Personaly I have been told by some rather good players that 0 clasms X lavamancer is the way to go because it helps make all the trible aggro decks even better than if you ran clasm. It also is soposed to be massivly helpful in the ichorid matchup (Yay for suicidal lavamancers!)
    I c h o r i d - my anti blue
    Manaless Ichorid- At least its cheeper than standard.
    We admit for the sake of the exercise that following is true:
    Landstill > Fromat
    Non-Basic Hate > Landstill
    Basics > Non-Basic Hate
    We can therefore logically conlude that
    Basics > Format

  10. #470
    Ur tears of nerdrage taste so sweet to me.
    Wargoos's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2008
    Location

    Do not care.
    Posts

    319

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Uh, boarding out ponder is almost always wrong.
    Naw, it's not.
    €dit1:Ok, I'll explain:
    Boarding in a card that fulfills a "business"-spell role for a card that is supposed to find you business against that deck isn't that stupid.
    But this is of course done not that often.

    While lavamancer seems cool (I love that card) I don't think it can fulfill pyroclasms role against tribal.
    Lavamancer is topdecked pretty bad and bites with mungo. Also being a 1/1 makes him quite fragile to jitte and he's also bad against opposing relics.
    Besides that dredge is such a bad mu that 2 mancer out of the sideboard seems worse than clasm and EE.
    Team Legal Actions.

  11. #471

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    I don't win so many matches against merfolks, it's a hard one. But I have to say that pithing needle has too many targets to say "= no good" and a permanent effect, contrary to stifle:

    - Relic of progenitus
    - Vial
    - Mutavault
    - Wasteland

    So I think that stifle is not soo good in this MU because they don't have fetchlands and its targets/effects are poor:

    - Relic
    - Wasteland
    - Standstill?

    Actually I play this side:

    4 Red elemental blast/Pyroblast
    4 Submerge
    3 Pithing needle
    2 Pyroclasm
    2 Engineered Explosives

    So I think I will do the following or something like this:

    +4 Red Elemental blast/Pyroblast
    +3 Pithing needle
    +2 Pyroclasm

    -4 Stifle
    -4 Daze
    -1 Random card

  12. #472

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    So, what do you think about this card?

    http://magiccards.info/4e/en/227.html

    This morning I was searching for good sideboard cards against merfolks and see it, the problem is to pay the double R, but resolve this card against merfolks is GG.

  13. #473
    Ur tears of nerdrage taste so sweet to me.
    Wargoos's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2008
    Location

    Do not care.
    Posts

    319

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Oi!
    Needle hasn't all that much targets either.
    You can't go for Wasteland because you are playing them yourselfes.
    Stifle gets this one on the contrary.
    Also for Mutavaults you still have you Wastelands, they're just golden here.

    Also I never told anyone to dismiss needle, I jus said, that it isn't working for me and that you can pack them if you meta shows lots of Merfolk/Gobs.
    But I still think that against anything else it's not worth it.

    And whats with this passage?

    - Standstill?
    Uhm, no you can't stifle Standstill.

    Also if you have such problems against merfolk, why don't just run Merfolk Assassins in the sideboard?
    Get's pumped by their lords and get's rid of merfolks better than lavamancer does ;p (j/k)
    Team Legal Actions.

  14. #474

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Quote Originally Posted by EaD View Post
    And whats with this passage?


    Uhm, no you can't stifle Standstill.
    I know that you can't stifle the sac effect of standstill, but I wonder if the trigger effect when a card is played could be stifled...

  15. #475
    Ur tears of nerdrage taste so sweet to me.
    Wargoos's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2008
    Location

    Do not care.
    Posts

    319

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Quote Originally Posted by Al-ucard View Post
    I know that you can't stifle the sac effect of standstill, but I wonder if the trigger effect when a card is played could be stifled...
    But then you'd play stifle as the spell and the effect would also go on the trigger?
    I guess this is a question for the rules thread.
    Team Legal Actions.

  16. #476
    Member
    RogueMTG's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2008
    Location

    Central NY
    Posts

    290

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Quote Originally Posted by EaD View Post
    But then you'd play stifle as the spell and the effect would also go on the trigger?
    I guess this is a question for the rules thread.
    This is correct, the Standstill will trigger again for the Stifle.

  17. #477
    Just awesome.
    Elf_Ascetic's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2006
    Location

    Nijmegen, The Netherlands
    Posts

    107

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Quote Originally Posted by EaD View Post
    But then you'd play stifle as the spell and the effect would also go on the trigger?
    I guess this is a question for the rules thread.
    No, it isn't. Stifle triggers standstill again. Read the card, people...
    DCI L1 Judge, admin of www.BeNeLegacy.nl and member of Team Nijmegen (T.N.T.=Team Nijmegen Tendrils).

  18. #478
    His name is not unknown in these woods.
    nitewolf9's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Area 88
    Posts

    1,499

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    If people are looking for a specific hoser card for merfolk in red, which I can't imagine why as this deck is actually pretty good against them (REB in the board? Can you ask for something better?), but anyway why not try out a Spinal Villain or 2?
    they haunt minds...

  19. #479

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    1) @ whoever said mancer wasnt good: mancer typicaly acts like a shackles only cheep enough to be playable, and the ichorid matchup is actualy bareable if you get goyf+ kill his bridges which mancer does half of.

    2) You cant stifle a standstill RTFC

    3) Needle is bad its just bad, you need to hit threshold turn 3/4 consistently this card seriously hinders that.

    4) I really still dont think boarding out ponder is EVER right, its not as bad is boarding out brainstorms/forces but its still pretty bad.
    I c h o r i d - my anti blue
    Manaless Ichorid- At least its cheeper than standard.
    We admit for the sake of the exercise that following is true:
    Landstill > Fromat
    Non-Basic Hate > Landstill
    Basics > Non-Basic Hate
    We can therefore logically conlude that
    Basics > Format

  20. #480
    Affinity and Beyond!
    kabal's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2005
    Location

    GA
    Posts

    482

    Re: [DTB] Tempo Thresh

    Quote Originally Posted by undone View Post
    3) Needle is bad its just bad
    Apparently David Caplan use to not think so. In his primer, he has the following sideboard with same main board he always runs:


    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Krosan Grip
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Pyroclasm
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Trygon Predator


    Granted new decks become DTB and discovering new cards (submerge) changes your board, but like a few others have already mentioned, Needle is a very good (permanent) answer to problematic cards you will be facing.
    "Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." --Ash

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)