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Thread: [Deck] Noughty Mom

  1. #1
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    [Deck] Noughty Mom

    For the last week, I was playing around with the idea of using Mother of Runes' in a Stifle-Nought build. This is pretty much a UGW Dreadstill shell, but without Standstill/Factories. I put this together and was able to split top 2 today:

    Land: 21
    3 Wasteland
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Tundra
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    1 Forest

    Creatures: 13
    4 Goyf
    3 Mother of Runes
    2 Dreadnought
    2 Trinket Mage
    2 Lorescale Coatl

    Removal: 4
    4 STP

    Counter: 15
    4 Counterbalance
    4 FOW
    4 Stifle
    3 Daze

    Draw: 7
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Top

    The sideboard was just thrown together, but had staples like Grip, EE, Needle, Crypt along with Trygon Predators and Sowers.

    Right off the bat, I can say I think the Coatls should be MD Predators. Also, the deck could probably go down to 20 land and use a MD EE, a 4th Daze, or possibly a 4th Mom.

    So the idea here is pretty straight forward - this deck has a UGW Countertop foundation with the Stifle-Nought combo. The twist is adding Mother of Runes to protect your guys if Counterbalance can't, and to make your guys unblockable. Mom's shield is great for Dreadnought of course, but is also enough of a boost in general that you can stall while you try to gain control of the board, or win with an untargetable/unblockable Goyf. Protecting a Sower of Tempation, or making Trygon Predator unblockable are some other great uses. And you get this from a 1cc creature. So potentially, you can play Dreadnought on turn 2, and he's already safe.

    With the extra creature protection from Mom, I thought Coatl might be viable since it satisfies the 3cc slot (which I want at least 4 of for Counterbalance). But I think he's still too slow. The Goyfs and Noughts provide the beatdown, and most of the time today I wished I had Predators in the MD.

    I haven't played with the deck enough to add many more details at this point, but I'm interested in any ideas about card choices for a few final slots in the MD, and for the SB. I assume many of the SB cards should be similar to standard Dreadstill SB's, but Mom might make some different choices worth considering.

    [Edit] Updated List 12/5/09
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Tundra
    3 Tropical Island
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    3 Wasteland

    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Goyf
    3 Trinket Mage
    2 Dreadnought

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 FOW
    4 Counterbalance
    3 Daze
    4 STP

    3 Top
    1 EE
    Last edited by DrewliusMaximus; 12-05-2009 at 11:06 PM. Reason: Updated List

  2. #2

    Re: [Deck] Noughty Mom

    I wrote this post, previewed it, and then decided I wasn't explicit enough with my background. My "For real" legacy deck right now is landstill, although I also keep dredge, dragon stompy and affinity built for some variety now and again. But when I play Dreadstill, I play almost exclusively Landstill, which, unless you second turn nought with more protection than I can work through (this happens rarely), turns into a card advantage war very, very quickly. This might explain my slightly hostile attitude against taking out standstill.


    This is what I originally wrote:
    My best magic playing friend plays Dreadstill. I've played against Dreadstill more often than I have against any other deck in Legacy (except for maybe Merfolk . . . man, those stupid fish are EVERYWHERE) and if there's a weakness I've noticed in Dreadstill, it's that your deck bleeds cards. Really. Bleeds them. You might have a grip of six cards, but if they happen to be Nought, Stifle, FoW, FoW, Blue Card, Blue Card, you really only have three. Your only method of card advantage here is trinket mage, which is contingent on Trinket Mage being more than a one-creature fog. Oh, and countertop, which I already fought you for with every resource I possessed. In dreadstill, countertop was already enemy #1.

    So, in conclusion, I don't think removing the Standstill/Factory package is desirable.

  3. #3
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    Re: [Deck] Noughty Mom

    I agree with cutting a land for an EE, and predator seems like a better choice that Coatl, even rhox war monk could work there.

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  4. #4
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    Re: [Deck] Noughty Mom

    Basically what was posted above, Drop to 20 land and cut the two Coatl, add 2 Rhox war monk and 1 EE and it seems like it now fairs against goblins and other decks much better. Rhox's Lifelink can buy you lots of time to get out a nought.
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  5. #5
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    Re: [Deck] Noughty Mom

    War Monk is a good call. I like the idea of a protected lifelinker. That means the Predators can come out of the SB.

    @LostButSeeking's argument: I am not even going to try and claim that Moms are better than the Landstill package, but I will say that the deck performed well for me this weekend and it played out differently than Dreadstill. With Standstill, you have a card that seals the deal when you already have superior board position. Mom is good no matter when you draw her, and she can help you come from behind to win. My first match on Sunday was against Merfolk (which really is everywhere), and I drew Mom after Merfolk already had Vial and general board advantage. She then helped me avoid enough damage to stall while dropping Goyf and STP'ing some of the Lords. I was able to pull that game out in the end.

    We already know the Landstill package is great at what it does. But this deck is a CounterTop deck that can also combine Mom with any of its other creatures to create good, solid board position. So Noughty Mom is a little different, and while it lacks plenty that Dreadstill has, it does have some advantages that I think are worth exploring.

  6. #6

    Re: [Deck] Noughty Mom

    So far I love the idea of Noughty Moms , as the Moms also protect your other creatures, and not to forget, also themselves, which means they can stall quite for a while. Good job, man.

  7. #7
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    Re: [Deck] Noughty Mom

    I think that most people should not compare this to typical Dreadstill. The list is more in line with Countertop with Dreadnought finish, and mother of runes seems really fine in the list. It wins Goyf races, makes Goyfs hard to remove, and sends a deadly protected dreadnought (protected via countermagic, countertop AND Mom) over. I seen Drew play this and I must say that the options are pretty good. It's an innovation to put Dreadnought in countertop without invoking Dreadstill.

    Surprisingly, the deck doesn't need Dreadnoughts to win. Mother is great to stall and eventually win a Goyf race. I tested a UGw Dreadstill shell before and couldn't really justify white for just StP. The inclusion of both Mother AND StP makes it worthwhile to explore. Your gobs matchup would be horrible but with 4 BEBs and maybe Burrenton Forge Tenders, you're golden. The thing is, SBing against Gobs is a meta call and I think your deck is decent in the current meta.

    You lose card advantage in Standstill but you have to give that up with a more stable manabase that is resilient to waste-hate. He has enough basics to fight against most hate with countermagic backup. Drew, you definitely need to play just a little more greedy. I noticed you had stifles in your hand mid-game and you fetched basics. you can easily get your opponents to waste your land, bait a waste and stifle the waste. But I'm assuming you wanted to hold the Stifle for Dreadnought.

    You definitely want 1 EE MD to save your ass against random stuff (Empty the Warrens tokens, Chalice@1, Bobs/Goyfs/Lackeys etc). I like Predators MD. Gives you better chances against your weaker matchups i.e. Merfolks with vial, Stax, Dragonstompy, etc (although that's assuming it's not too late for you to recover before they dump their nuts on you). Clique is a good meta call against Aggro Loam, ANT and other combo decks, and Clique is just simply amazing against Standstill.decs since you flash her in in response to them playing Standstill and hope that she resolves and you get to recall yourself in a couple of turns.

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    Re: [Deck] Noughty Mom

    I think I like the Predators too. It also frees up more space in the SB. But it's matchups like Goblins that make me want to consider War Monk. I also thought about Jenara, but I think it's between Predators, War Monk and Clique for the final 2 spots in the MD. EE is definitely in there.

    Chris, I didn't really think about baiting a Waste in that game, but didn't he have enough land that it wouldn't have mattered? I'm still getting used to Stifle tricks, but you're also a greedy bastard.

  9. #9
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    Re: [Deck] Noughty Mom

    @DrewliusMaximus
    hello, a very interesting take on the dreadnought. do you have a updated decklist and sb aswell ?

  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] Noughty Mom

    there are a lot of creatures you'd want to run here that are already blue and white, so running green seems a bit excessive. Instead of running the green creatures you should run wayfarer and lower the land count, as well as grunts and seers. I like your dreadnought idea. I would not do it myself, but I'm not confident enough that it's bad to say so. At least it seems interesting, but whether it's good or not is up to you to figure out.

    I'll say on a first inspection that since it forces you to run 4 stifles, it's not worth it though.

  11. #11
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    Re: [Deck] Noughty Mom

    hello, a very interesting take on the dreadnought. do you have a updated decklist and sb aswell ?
    Yeah, here's the list I played two weekends ago:

    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Tundra
    3 Tropical Island
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    3 Wasteland

    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Goyf
    3 Trinket Mage
    2 Dreadnought

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 FOW
    4 Counterbalance
    3 Daze
    4 STP

    3 Top
    1 EE

    SB
    3 Crypt
    2 Needle
    1 EE
    2 Sower of Temptation
    2 Trygon Predators
    2 BEB
    2 Grip
    1 Forest

    I have only played in 3 tourneys with this, so some of the slots keep changing. I top 4'd in 2 of the tournaments and it makes sense that the deck works because it's mostly a bunch of proven Dreadstill cards, but Moms add more to the deck than just protecting Dreadnought. They protect Goyfs too obviously, they protect Sower, they protect Predator and make it unblockable, and they can hold their ground against your opponent's early-drop creatures while you set up Countertop.

    there are a lot of creatures you'd want to run here that are already blue and white, so running green seems a bit excessive.
    I admit that it would be really nice not to worry about Wastelands as much, but green gives you the best creature in the game, Predators, Grips and a third color lets you get the all important EE @ 3. Mom + Goyf has won me more games than Dreadnought.

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