Results 1 to 20 of 43

Thread: Competitive Mill

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Salt of the earth

    Join Date

    May 2009
    Location

    Canada
    Posts

    4,685

    Competitive Mill

    A few weeks back, there was some discussion about making mill competitive (or at least playable) in Legacy. As it so happens, Mind Funeral came into our possession, and joy was had. I've had a casual mill deck for years, which really only included Glimpse the Unthinkable and Panoptic Mirror, but with Alara Reborn we, the mill enthusiasts have been given Nemesis of Reason and Mind Funeral. I've started piecing some things together, and posted a list I had in another thread. The deck has gone away from the 70-card beast posted else ware, and has turned into the beast presented shortly.

    As you may/may not be aware of, there are two ways to win in Magic: run the opponents out of cards, or put their life total to 0. The latter can be done via creatures, spells, storm combo, etc. This thread will focus on the former via non-storm combo. Is my list the one and only? No. Would I love to hear suggestions and possible decklists? Absolutely, but I must stress that this is for non-storm combo. After a long read, I present Mill, Version 3 as of May 30 2009:

    Competitive Mill
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Watery Grave
    1 Maze of Ith
    2 Shelldock Isle
    5 Island
    3 Swamp

    3 Nemesis of Reason
    3 Fog Bank
    3 Gilded Drake

    4 Damnation
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mind Funeral
    4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
    4 Smother
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Traumatize
    2 Haunting Echoes
    2 Panoptic Mirror/Wipe Away

    Possible Sideboard
    3 Arcane Laboratory
    3 Chill
    3 Veldaken Shackles
    3 Pithing Needle
    3 Extirpate


    I'll also try to enlighten you with my reasons for card choices:

    Underground Sea: The deck needs blue and black, thus, auto-include
    Polluted Delta: Fetches either black or blue lands that I require
    Flooded Strand: The deck cried for another fetch, this one does so nicely.
    Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth: Helps with colour fixing, makes Maze, Shelldock, fetches, etc. tap for black.
    Watery Grave: Just can't get enough dual lands that are on-colour.
    Maze of Ith: when drawn, can allow a nice stall if the opponent is using a single, large threat, helps in the defense, which is what you're playing.
    Shelldock Isle: Digs for four cards. This was Lim-Dul's Vault, but that wasn't working out. The last twenty cards are usually the hardest, and having a nice trick under this when the game comes to a close is always handy; taps for blue.
    Island/Swamp: Basics to round out the lands/protect against Moon/Wasteland.
    Nemesis of Reason: The MVP of creatures in this deck. Is a fantastic blocker, and usually comes down after a Damnation. Mills ten cards before blocking, so even one attack can put Shelldock online/puts more cards into the yard. He does cost 5, but in this deck, he is reusable mill.
    Fog Bank: Trample does go over him, can be bolted, smothered, etc. but, he does nicely jump non-trampling fatties that flood legacy (mongoose, goyf, stalker, etc. Can really help the creature slowing process.
    Gilded Drake: Usually played after a Fog Bank, it nicely steals something that you could use/block with. Was Sower, but this is much faster to come out. All in all, a nice card, and pitches to FoW.
    Damnation: The deck doesn't play many creatures, and creatures are the main kill condition of legacy, I would think. This nicely buys you extra turns to mill/sweeps the board, and is a lovely surprise under Shelldock/Panoptic Mirror (who needs mill when you Wrath every turn?)
    Force of Will: Protects a crucial backbreaker, or stops something that you can't deal with from coming into play.
    Mind Funeral: My mainboard tech against two land belcher (har-har). In actuality, this card usually ends up milling for 10+ cards, and my personal record is 36 off of a Thresh deck (he wasn't laughing). This is the main mill spell of choice to be put under an Isle, as it will usually clear most of the final cards in their library.
    Glimpse the unthinkable: The most efficient mill spell.
    Smother: Did I mention this deck hates creatures? Kills Nacatl, Figure, Goyf, Confidant, etc.
    Traumatize: Seems a little casual, but can be a great card if it lands. If not, it pitches. Usually when this comes down, it mills for 20, which may not seem great, but 20 is 20.
    Haunting Echoes: Accelerates the mill process. Is really good when there are 15+ in the yard, which is easily done. It's a nice finisher when it gets right to the end of the library.
    The extra slot: Panoptic Mirror/Wipe Away: I know Panoptic Mirror seems like a really casual dollar rare, but in this deck, it can be interesting. Any spell put on here (minus FoW) can really help you out. Favourite imprints include Damnation, Mind Funeral, and Traumatize. It is slow to get out, but you're slowing the game anyway. Wipe Away was my other choice, as more bounce is always good. Virtually uncounterable (what cb player leaves 3cc on top?) and returns another that is giving me the gears.

    63 Cards? What?
    Yes, the deck is 63 cards. I am a believer in the 63-card deck. I've always played decks of 63, as 3 extra doesn't greatly hurt your chances mathematically topdecking the win (the percentage is small), and allows me to run a 3-of that can really help me out. Does 60 cards improve my chances of lucksacking a win? Yes, numbers don't lie. Is it nice to have that extra tech in there for a tiny drawback? To me, it is. Perhaps to you it isn't. I could cut this deck down 60, but as of yet, it sits at 63.

    I really want to know what you guys think. I would say give it a try on workstation. Is it the new Threshold? No. Is it super cool to win via milling an opponent? Oh dear sweet baby Jesus it is. I will try to update this with coll pictures and banners, if someone is willing to make this thread look beautiful!

    Thanks, and comments are appreciated!

    -Matt
    Last edited by sdematt; 06-03-2009 at 09:41 AM.

  2. #2
    The Courage Wolf
    chokin's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2007
    Location

    Tucson, AZ
    Posts

    267

    Re: Competitive Mill

    I don't know how the hell you put Glimpse on Scepter (which is what I assume you did looking at your little intro).

    This seems too slow to be labeled "competitive" to me. A lot of your spells cost 5...kinda makes any deck packing a lot of land disruption (Eva Green, Lands, Thrash, even Goblins, etc) a real bitch. Even being held off for a few turns of disruption is doing a ton for these decks.

    I do like the concept of mill. I do however believe that you need to make it more like control with a mill main finish. You could probably do Ub CBTop Control and start work from there. I'd cut out Traumatize and Nemesis personally...to slow.

    Although this may not be the greatest idea, Mystical Tutor has some synergy with this style of deck. A single blue mana gives you tutor to find your mill and/or gets you a specific CC on top. It allows you to run a wide variety of sideboard hate as well. Again, maybe not the best idea however.

    EDIT: "As you may/may not be aware of, there are two ways to win in Magic: run the opponents out of cards, or put their life total to 0"
    Door to Nothingness :P.

  3. #3

    Re: Competitive Mill

    I'm not sure how well it works in practice, but Natural Balance / New Frontiers -> Mind Funeral is pretty funny.

    There still aren't quite enough cards for 'deck burn' to work so well. Combo based mill like Solidarity or Painter Grindstone, or even Helm of Obedience/Lleyline of the Void seems to work better with one or two cards that completely wipe out the opponent's deck.

    P.S. There are also card-based wins like Battle of Wits and poison counters.

  4. #4
    Salt of the earth

    Join Date

    May 2009
    Location

    Canada
    Posts

    4,685

    Re: Competitive Mill

    whoops, just a bit of a mistake there :D, was thinking Panoptic Mirror. I meant the two fundamental ways, but yeah, Door, Coalition victory, etc. can win you the game, yeah. Also, I know that Storm Combo mill/Painter's Servant is more effective, I'm just trying to work on one deck that isn't those mill those decks. Any other suggestions guys?

  5. #5
    King of the Cowfish
    Damnosus's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2008
    Location

    U.S.
    Posts

    87

    Re: Competitive Mill

    Is 4 counterspells really enough? I feel like there definitely should be more in a control deck, let alone one that is so vulnerable. Add in either 4 counterspell, or maybe 2 counterspell and 2 spell snare.

    Also you need more control elements. Consider removing all the creatures (except for maybe 2 NoR) for things like propaganda, more counters, and vedalken shackles. If you really want to keep Fog Bank, consider splashing white for wall of denial instead. The should act like control in that it has only several win conditions, with lots of control elements. Worse comes to worse, you deck the person via stalling.

    Also definitely consider 2 Jace beleran.

    You have 63 cards, and although you mentioned that you are fine with that, it is the easiest thing in the world to get rid of 3 cards because there are so many "danger of cool things" cards in this deck, like traumatize, haunting echoes and panoptic mirror. Maybe stick with 2 of either traumatize or haunting echoes, or one of each?

    Hope that gives you some ideas of where to take the deck.

  6. #6

    Re: Competitive Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    whoops, just a bit of a mistake there :D, was thinking Panoptic Mirror. I meant the two fundamental ways, but yeah, Door, Coalition victory, etc. can win you the game, yeah. Also, I know that Storm Combo mill/Painter's Servant is more effective, I'm just trying to work on one deck that isn't those mill those decks. Any other suggestions guys?
    You're going into casual and which is, of course, just fine, but this is the wrong place for that.

    I'm guessing that you're looking for something non-conventional, so Solitary Confinement and stasis-lock are off the list. There's a bunch of ramp up/infinite combos which can easily use deck death finishes (Second Sunrise, Kiki-Jiki, Swans of Brynn Agol, Reveillark, High Tide, Cadaverous Bloom and so on.)

    I'd guess that Forced Fruition is one of the stronger choices for 'deck burning'. There's also Shocker/Barbed Shocker/Dragon Mage/Magus of the Jar stuff. It might also be interesting in BR with Kederket Parasite, Underworld Dreams or Chains of Mephistopholes, and so on.

  7. #7
    Salt of the earth

    Join Date

    May 2009
    Location

    Canada
    Posts

    4,685

    Re: Competitive Mill

    I'm not trying to make it casual, I'm trying to improve it for Legacy actually :D
    Before, it was casual (before Nemesis etc.), but now, I think it has potential. And har-har about why not just build another deck.

    I actually used to splash white before for wall of denial, I just found that three colours made it much harder to run (more susceptible to land-screw), but it did work great. I'll rework it in. But yeah, I could cut it down to 60 although I'd be a tad saddened :D

    The new list I've made up drops a bunch of filler for Counter-Balance-top, and it seems to be going pretty well.

  8. #8

    Re: Competitive Mill

    In concept, playing a bunch of spells that wipe out the opponent's deck can be strong, and in strong colors (U/B). The problem is that there aren't really enough solid deck destroying spells available -- Glimpse, Mind Funeral, Brain Freeze and not much else. In practical terms you'd have to see 1/3 to 1/2 of the deck, and land all of the spells to make it stick. I think the concept needs 2 or 3 more good decking spells to really work. If you try to use draw and acceleration to mitigate that, you end up with storm combo, and control and tutor elements lead to painter/grindstone.

  9. #9
    Member
    keys's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2006
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,053

    Re: Competitive Mill

    I think the obvious problem with slow mill (as opposed to "fast mill" like solidarity and painter) is that graveyard based strategies make up such a large percentage of the format. Goyf? Mongoose? Lavamancer? Tombstalker? Loam? ICHORID?

    So yes, the title of this thread is an oxymoron.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)