[The Source] Tournaments

[4eak]

A banned list tourney sounds like what most people want. Would it be possible to add a few more banned cards on that unbanned list, just for a bit more diversity? I don't want to see just 20 WGD decks.

- Land Tax
- Illusionary Mask
- Dream Halls
- Earthcraft
- Entomb
- Worldgorger's Dragon


What about:

-Metalworker
-Mind Twist
-Hermit Druid
-Time Spiral
-one more? (Skullclamp or Fastbond or Gush maybe?)

When I look at just the top list, I only see WGD and perhaps another Entomb deck being viably made/tweaked in the allotted time to build a deck before the tourney (that is to say: the other cards might be breakable, but I don't think they would be for this tournament). So, perhaps we could add just a few more decent cards, or would that be too much?




peace,
4eak

[ykpon]

- Land Tax
- Illusionary Mask
- Dream Halls
- Earthcraft
- Entomb
- Worldgorger's Dragon

how about
- Entomb or Dragon
+ Black Vise
+ Mind Twist

upd
4eak, Druid and Time Spiral seem ok too. maybe even Grim Monolith and Frantic Search. but Metalworker, Clamp, Fastbond and Gush are absolutely broken.

[4eak]

4eak, Druid and Time Spiral seem ok too. maybe even Grim Monolith and Frantic Search. but Metalworker, Clamp, Fastbond and Gush are absolutely broken.

You surprise me with Frantic Search (has been amazing in Solidarity during my testing). Would be fun to see it on the field!

I'm actually not convinced some of those are really broken though. Metalworker and Fastbond in particular have been safe enough in my testing. They can be a part of good decks, but they haven't been anywhere near format warping (e.g. Affinity in T2).

It seems like this would be a decent place to test assertions of brokenness for many of these cards. If you think they're really broken, then build a deck around them and play it at the tournament, eh?

Either way is fine with me though; I was just offering a suggestion.




peace,
4eak

[xTrainx]

Pauper would be really fun...

[pi4meterftw]

Forbiddian may have deserved the win based on his opponent not acting enough, however, his only post was this, from which C_C could only tell that both players had been in contact. Had he posted again about the situation, he may have got the win he deserved. Obviously you should have the win if the opponent PMs you once and disappears, but if you don't tell the TO what's happened, how are they going to know?

Also, I'd play in IBA's suggested tourney.

I PM'd the TO and he said I "was fine and just needed to wait." I also posted in the thread. But then it turns out that I wasn't fine. Maybe he forgot.

I'd be down for this tournament. A draw and then the subsequent mulligan into a bunch of equipment game 1, drawing 10 lands in 13 cards, and then also 1 aether vial (2 Burrenton forge tenders, and he was zoo and got mostly green that game) means I'm probably out of top 8. I could go WWWW and then probably still not make it on tie breaks.

To address people who have the possibility of top 8ing, why not just run the tournament, and then there will be fewer people due to this, and then it will end sooner, probably in time for the MTGSal tournament to end and then we can hold another one. Or you can play two in parallel. Unless you have a crazy psycho job this summer or are going to take a really long vacation, that should be pretty manageable.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

- Land Tax
- Illusionary Mask
- Dream Halls
- Earthcraft
- Entomb
- Worldgorger's Dragon
- Hermit Druid
- Mind Twist
- Mana Drain
- Black Vise

I'm not sure all those cards would ever come off the list, but it'd be interesting without being degenerate. At least on MWS Mana Drain's cost isn't an issue.

We could add Grim Monolith in place of Land Tax, it seems marginally less terrible.

[Michael Keller]

I'd participate if this were to happen.

Pretty nifty ideas.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I too would enjoy some non-MWS-head-bashing competition!

[DrJones]

I think these "unban something" ideas becomes less useful as the list increases, specially IBA's last suggestion, which increases tenfold the "swinginess" of the format for no purpose other than lulz. Mana Drain? Black Vise? Why don't suggest also Strip Mine and Library of Alexandria? Those cards all have in common that win games that should have been lost, and require no skill whatsoever. These don't make games more interesting, they make it more random. You are adding a bunch of cards that have to be answered as soon as they enter play or you lose, and they all require packing a lot of different answer cards in your deck; unless you happen to be blue, in which case you are okay with the general-purpose countermagic that you already played, plus Mana Drain.

More Swinginess + more fronts to protect + only general answer being countermagic + broken countermagic allowed = very predictable metagame. Now, if blue decks had to actually sacrifice slots to protect from any of those newly introduced cards, like the rest of the field...

There are also flaws with the concept that haven't been addressed yet: you can't use the tournament to test if the weaker of those cards on the list are unfair or not, because they can (will) be overshadowed by the stronger ones. Moreover, decklists with more than one of the banned cards (Illus Mask + Mana Drain, for example) have almost zero chance of ever being legal, are likelier to make Top 8, and if so, you won't ever know if the unbalance came from one card (Mask) or the other (Drain).

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The problem with any suggestion about unbannings is that very few people actually understand structurally how the game works and how Legacy design works, and thus have an odd idea of which cards would have an impact. For instance, the suggestion that adding Illusionary Mask to a deck increases it's odds of Top 8'ing.

[DrJones]

You know, if only because Illusionary Mask makes your creatures uncounterable in a blue-dominated meta, and also because Roc Hatchling is teh killer. :P

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

and also because Roc Hatchling is teh killer. :P

I am defeated!

[elof]

I'm up for almost any type of tournament.

[Dark_Shakuras]

How about this. You may pick and play 4 of any card on the banned list provided:

1. It is not Banned or Restricted in Vintage.

Basically it would be like playing old Type 1.5 but you only get 1 card. So take your 4 Mana Drain, OR your 4 Metalworkers, OR your 4 Grim Monolith.

[Nihil Credo]

How about this. You may pick and play 4 of any card on the banned list provided:

1. It is not Banned or Restricted in Vintage.

Basically it would be like playing old Type 1.5 but you only get 1 card. So take your 4 Mana Drain, OR your 4 Metalworkers, OR your 4 Grim Monolith.

That's excessive in my opinion. Between Skullclamp, Oath, and Workshop you would obsolete most of Legacy as we know it.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Let's do this;

Let's say that we want to try three cards being unbanned, as a small number, and then set these parameters;

We want these cards to be capable of having an impact; they are not the weakest cards on the banned list.

We want these cards to be balanced; we don't want them to destroy the tournament.

We want these cards to represent different strategies; we don't want to create a combo tournament.

We don't want to make blue more powerful than it is; we don't want these cards to be blue.

We want these cards to be capable of going into more than one deck.

With that end, I would suggest;

- Entomb
- Mind Twist
- Earthcraft

As potential unbans for one tournament.

[Jak]

Let's do this;

Let's say that we want to try three cards being unbanned, as a small number, and then set these parameters;

We want these cards to be capable of having an impact; they are not the weakest cards on the banned list.

We want these cards to be balanced; we don't want them to destroy the tournament.

We want these cards to represent different strategies; we don't want to create a combo tournament.

We don't want to make blue more powerful than it is; we don't want these cards to be blue.

We want these cards to be capable of going into more than one deck.

With that end, I would suggest;

- Entomb
- Mind Twist
- Earthcraft

As potential unbans for one tournament.

Sounds awesome.

[4eak]

One more question: Are we required to play a deck that uses the temporarily unbanned cards, or is it completely open and entirely up the player whether or not we use the cards?




peace,
4eak

[Van Phanel]

If we do this unban-stuff thingy, I'd suggest Frantic Search.