Vexing Shusher and Choke are the super secret tech.
Team Donkeypunch
+1Originally Posted by TOGITwill
Choke is teh sexy against thresh and merfolk.
Team Unicorn: We're horny...get it?
Does it make sense to replace Llanowar Elf with Noble Hierarch? It helps win Goyf wars and still fills the same role of early acceleration.
I believe the choice of Elf has been discussed already. The reasoning was to have something in play to block a lackey or something along those lines.
i almost wanna suggest adding magus of the vineyard over lanowar elf. only down side is your opponent gets mana too and don't need to give them fuel for grip. now that mana burn is a thing of the past. serves the same purpose and makes more mana.
but if all your doing is using it as a blocker you might as well be better off with skyshroud elite as its bound to get bigger. of course it doesn't produce mana like lanowar but it sure can last longer.
-If it needs a repair you have a problem, if I smash it, it's now fixed as you now don't have to repair it!-
I piloted this deck at the DHG tourney in Rhode Island over the weekend, i went 2-3 drop due to inexperience with the deck, but split the finals of a side event. i actually didnt run trinisphere at all in sb or md, i'm actuatlly wondering how other people do their sideboarding for archtypes. :) thanks hollywood for lists to work with.
As for playing the deck, i was very impressed with the explosiveness of the deck. It just felt like you were in every game, and my loses came to punting a match vs zoo, enchantress, and survival zoo. if i can get advice about what archtypes we bring trinispheres in.
Nice work. How was it working without the 3Sphere in the main or board?
i didnt really miss it, the only combo deck i played against was enchantress, i had sided in its place 2 shusher, 1 pithning needle, 1 krosan grip, i didnt use needle, but shusher did factor into one match. I just need more experience with the deck, i'm wondering though what the point of trinisphere is in other matchups? like against zoo, should u side them in after g1?
It really all depends on what happens game one. If you lose, then you're going to find yourself needing to get off to a faster start game two. You're going to end up wanting to drop Trinisphere within the first two turns. If you can't, it doesn't become too much a factor.
Against most decks packing one-drop creatures, you should have no trouble. Your creatures are larger and relatively cheap, which can help you match an opponent laying their forces out early.
As far as Pithing Needle goes, it really depends on your meta. Needle is really good in a lot of matches, but you already have a solid utility out of everything else in the deck that it really feels like a wasted slot; I could be wrong.
agree with you about needle, i think overall, the deck performed well, just need more practice, i have very little xperience with trinisphere :)
side note, choke was amazing for me, but for other people, it was a double bladed sword, where if it comes down too late, they just play around it
now, earlier posts suggested we fit crucible into the list, i'm wondering what we could cut from sb to make room?
In a german article about legacy and an evaluation of cards from Zendikar I found a suggestion that proposes Lotus Cobra for this deck. On first sight this doesn't look too bad. It nets you mana which can be used to pump out an early Garruk or Progenitus. With a Llanowar Elf in play it could give you 6 mana on turn 3. It costs 2 so avoids typical Chalice 0,1.
Play Lotus Cobra + Fetchlands, you'll have some pretty explosive plays right off the bat.
T1
Forest, Llanower Elf
T2
tap Llanower and forest, play Lotus Cobra.
play fetchland, crack fetch -- add 2 mana to pool, tap land --3 mana to pool
play Trini/Tanglewire/chalice/goyf etc.
problem is that we're trying to keep the fetches to a minimal to stop the styfle effects, depending on your metagame, you could try that aproach, i think with an infusion of new fetches, we will b seeing an increase in the amount of styfles from blue decks across the board
So I tested the original list with the following changes:
- Pendlehavens
+ Forests
- Selkies
- 1 River Boa
+4 Ice storms
At times I felt like I was cheating. So many decks run 8 fetches and ~12 land or so. The combination of Waste, Storm, 3shpere and to a lesser extent CotV usually keep them out of the game.
Natural Order was also randomly hillarious and gives you a viable out to a situation that is unwinnable. It happened to work all in my favor last night but I have a feeling that if you get a progenitus down you often don't lose.
Lastly, I never fully appreciated how good Jitte is. In a special situation last night I was going to be able to race a Tombstalker with an ESG :/ The card provides too much power. IMO this is the premiere anti metagame deck.
Jitte certainly does provide you a great advantage by powering up your smaller creatures and maximizing their efficiency (and utility). You can race and even hold off larger threats with Jitte in the most critical circumstances; that's certainly no surprise. I do feel, however, that Jitte's effectiveness does go rather unnoticed to a lot of people; I was one myself at one time.
The original purpose of the deck was to stifle (no pun intended) the influence the most prevalent decks in the larger scheme of things. Decks like Merfolk and Thresh consistently place in large events, and for good reason. They are fine-tuned machines and with a good pilot can prove to be even more deadly. The sole purpose of this deck was to completely counter the different points of effectiveness those decks had and subsequently punish them by turning their own resources against them (i.e. Islandwalk, Protection from Red and Blue, etc.).
If you just take a step back and look at the decks that are winning, it makes perfect sense to create a foil to those archetypes because people come out like cockroaches at large events just flooding the damn tables with the same thing. Trick is to gauge the perceived notions going into a large event and just play against the norm. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't.
I've taken many chances over the years like I did with M.G.C.A. and it proved to be effective because people were less prepared for it. I still think people are because the deck utilizes every optimum anti-establishment card in the format. Smaller, cheaper creatures are in the deck to supplement your control elements like Wasteland and Trinisphere (that is, assuming you play it, which I strongly recommend due to its absurd game-changing capability).
Has anyone considered or tried Bind in this deck? Obviously it's not a green stifle but it has it's pros, Bind isn't hit by chalice@1 and it even cantrips. I think it's worth exploring because something like turn 1 bind on a fetchland while on the play (obviously with ESG) followed by wasteland seems pretty good.
I love LD, but I think you have to consider that is a bit of a corner case. What's more you generally want to be tapping out in the opening turns dropping threats/dudes. I would say it is the ultimate vs. deed but you have the more versatile Grip to take care of it.
EDIT: Do you ever feel like your opponents are more like victims with this deck? CoTV=1, River Boa, NO-->Prog, Jitted Llanowar elves. When I first played against this deck I was like Oh-noes another threat!
Last edited by jazzykat; 10-16-2009 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Afterthought
I have also been toying with the notion of playing Krosan Grip in the main, maybe as a two-of. I like the Wickerbough Elders as they can be activated the turn they hit play. The only thing is that catching an opponent off-guard with K.G. is always a key play in just about any game you play.
It's rather funny: In my original list (in the preparation for the tournament it placed 3rd in), I was going around asking everyone for Ice Storms. Putting yourself ahead with a ridiculous amount of acceleration and then offing your opponent's resources is just cruel. It has been since the game started and it's a strategy right out of the play-book from 1993, and is still very effective.
If you feel the deck warrants it, by all means try Ice Storm out. The fact it costs 2G and not 1GG given all the colorless mana sources the deck sports, Ice Storm is far more effective in this deck than any other land-destruction spell currently available (that is green).
Has anyone ever tested/thought of Werebear?
I know he's mostly being seen as the 'Tarmogoyf of the poor' and with the introduction of Lotus Cobra cmc2 has even more good cards - effectively even nullifying his "Tap:" ability.
Have you had problems in constantly getting seven cards in your graveyard?
Last edited by AlterEgo; 10-18-2009 at 06:07 AM.
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