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Thread: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

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    [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Just filling out the sideboard of a CT deck and wanted to get some feedback on strong sideboard cards that can play double-duty vs. Progenitus and Merfolk decks. After searching on Gatherer, the best I could find is Llawan, Cephalid Empress and Meekstone.

    Vs. Merfolk, Llawan seems like a fucking beating. They either have the Daze or Force to stop it or kept you off the mana to play it, but it trumps their deck if you can stick it. Vs. Progenitus, well, you need to get it off before you're dead. Costs the same as Natural Order. Also, beats for 2.

    Vs. Merfolk, Meekstone is infy easier to play than Llawan, but requires they have 1 or more lords (not unreasonable) and that you can catch them with their pants down. Problem is they can build up and alpha-strike if you can't put the game away. Vs. the big guy, you're still taking 10. Also, Grip. They're everywhere. On the other hand, Meekstone is useful vs. more opponents and can reasonably come in vs. other decks that aren't Merfolk.

    So, Llawan seems like a good choice, given the above, though I thought I'd ask the community if I'm missing anything.

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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    What colors are you running? Damnation or Wrath seem to be good options if you are in white or black.
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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Firespout is generally good against Merfolk and the Elves! versions of Progenitus.

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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Quote Originally Posted by nitewolf9 View Post
    What colors are you running? Damnation or Wrath seem to be good options if you are in white or black.
    UGW/r. WW is a bit much to ask, esp. in the face of Wasteland and/or Stifle since the mana is pulled in so many other directions.

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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    CoP: blue.

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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    UGW/r. WW is a bit much to ask, esp. in the face of Wasteland and/or Stifle since the mana is pulled in so many other directions.
    In my testing with rockout meekstone wasn't the correct answer he wanted to find. It didnt stop me from rolling him although it does nerf your dudes it still doesnt nerf the final swing.

    Llawan in my testing has been excellent and your correct.

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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    UGW/r.
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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Teferi's Moat. Slow and costly and vulnerable to Grip though.

    Meddling Mage is good for naming Natural Order. If they're playing Survival, this isn't the best option though since they usually pack Shriekmaw and REB in the side. Against that Mono Green Chalice/NO deck it'd be good though.

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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    If you can cast something that takes RWG, and eats that much mana each turn, against Merfolk....

    Also, doesn't solve the problem of them just getting lethal and Stifling the ability.
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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Spore Frog recursion also works--to a certain extent.

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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Dream Tides (4)
    Enchantment
    Creatures don't untap during their controllers' untap steps.

    At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player may choose any number of tapped nongreen creatures he or she controls and pay 2 for each creature chosen this way. If the player does, untap those creatures.


    Should slow down merfolk, and will make progenitals only be able to attack once... Also stops goyf attacks... Affects you too though.

  12. #12
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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    Vs. Merfolk, Llawan seems like a fucking beating. They either have the Daze or Force to stop it or kept you off the mana to play it, but it trumps their deck if you can stick it. Vs. Progenitus, well, you need to get it off before you're dead. Costs the same as Natural Order. Also, beats for 2.
    One problem with this is Aether Vial. Is he strong enough to combat 2-3 creatures with a vial in play?

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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    One problem with this is Aether Vial. Is he strong enough to combat 2-3 creatures with a vial in play?
    Shit. That's a really good point. Still, Llawan or not, an active Vial is going to suck, so it's sort of a wash.

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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    I think Llawan is female, as an aside. However, Vial or not, resolving her is still a huge tempo gain. Even with Vial in play -which won't enable your opponent to replay all creatures bounced because of the number of counter it carries- she buys time to find more solutions and enables you to deal with the fishies 1 for 1. I don't know whether she's worth the slot in the board, but her effect is nothing to be scoffed at.
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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    I don't think you should be looking at this as a one card answer. The only answers (llawan and meekstone), are pretty weak, given that the cost of llawan is so high against a deck running daze force and cursecatcher. Most decks that run the natural order combo are trying to swarm you as well. So, I believe that a sweeper would be a better SB card, as it allows you to save a FoW for the natural order. I just don't think you should be looking for one card that answers both merfolk and progs.
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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    however if you had Llawan and Meekstone, heh heh? That should't be fun times for snake and boots folk players.

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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    So, Llawan seems like a good choice, given the above, though I thought I'd ask the community if I'm missing anything.
    I've tried Llawan in Merfolk as anti-Merfolk tech. She sucks. Merfolk still plays creatures with Vial. What's worse: often they just steal it with Sower of Temptation. Llawan is bad against Merfolk.
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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    In the unlikely case that you're running a CT deck with plenty of mana, a playset of Elephant Grass in the sideboard will both disable Progenitus and severely hinder tribal aggro.
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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Llawan seems interesting, but you run into two problems;

    1) It doesn't stop Vial.

    2) It doesn't stop Natural Order.

    Meekstone seems like shit. It's only going to catch Merfolk if their pants are down, and only once. It's shit against their beefiest beater. And it doesn't stop elves.

    So far, of the ideas listed I like Firespout and Llawan the best. My advice would be to just save Dazes and Forces for the Natural Order, and focus on beating Merfolk, which will probably be played more.
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    Re: [Sideboard Cards] Anti-Merfolk, Anti-Progenitus

    Use Firespout and counter Natural Order.

    Llawan is clunky and doesn't win you the game.

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