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Agreed. Unfortunately I think infinite tapped squirrels on turn 3 is just too good and earthcraft should stay banned.Originally Posted by JackaBo
Then unban Goblin Recruiter, you can combo with it and it's safe. Tinker is unsafe. If I honestly have to explain why a card that both Tutors and cheats on mana in a single effect is unsafe then, well, I won't really bother. Some people really are that stupid I guess.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Pay three, get what you need is an incredibly powerful effect. It can get bridge if you're about to be aggro'd, it can get vindicate (Meteor Golem or Spine of Ish Sah) or a Witchbane orb to stop combo decks. When you're building your deck around a super show-and-tell you get a lot of options available to you.
Idk. Blue decks are really lacking the tools to be successful in the meta right now. I say we unban tinker and see if blue becomes playable in the format again. Maybe unban minds desire while we're at it
Tinker is card disadvantage except if you go for sundering titan other way show and tell is better cause it wins if not answered (omniscience and you just win) ; tinker you get a creature it gets sworded/edicted and that's over you just 2 for one yourself ; which artifact are you gonna get ? As you said bridge fine you get your bridge ; it doesn't win from there and you just two for one yourself ; vindicate a 3cc vindicate which costs you to sac a land is very bad.
I don't see how tinker is more broken than vampire hexmage which cheats a 20/20 flying indestructible token. Tinker is less powerfull than Natural Order which gets you the win if not answered in elf.
You can't build around tinker something that breaks the format, simply cause there is an answer to every artifact, and I am not even speaking about assassin's trophy/kologhan's command or stuff. there is only sunderig titan and memory jar(which is banned) that might be problematic but the card is ok to me.
Goblin recruiter is unsafe cause it is card advantage+tutor in a single card.Then unban Goblin Recruiter, you can combo with it and it's safe. Tinker is unsafe. If I honestly have to explain why a card that both Tutors and cheats on mana in a single effect is unsafe then, well, I won't really bother. Some people really are that stupid I guess.
Tinker is card disadvantage and just mana cheating like Natural order show and tell and stuff but weaker. And yeah I don't know who is stupid, I guess some people are really stupid yes, they cant change their mind and dont open their mind.
Yes mind's desire is safe, I have tested it and it is too slow and unconsistant.
You are close to people complaigning about worldragger dragon when it was banned, same stuff here other that the card can open some interestings tier 2 brews.
Goblin Recruiter
Have you read the text on this card? Can you explain where the card advantage is hidden?
yeah just go ringleader put it on top and you draw 4 goblin that you have chosen each turn
Oh okay, so you need an additional card and you need to build your deck around a narrow strategy.
Unlike just adding 1 broken tutor target and playing a card that both finds it and puts it into play...
you don't need an additional card you search for ringleader put it on top with others gobelin and start your chain.
Can someone tell me what you get with tinker that wins the game ? Everything gets answered by a single sword/council/edict/command/assassin's trophy or is just too slow contrary to show and tell into griselbrand/emrakul/omniscience.
Yay. Now you have 4 Goblins in hand that can all go to the bottom of your Library at the earliest possible convenience. Or maybe you can draw a bunch of cards and then die to a 7/7 flyer with Lifelink and a broken draw effect. Oh, oh or if your really really lucky you might get away with doing something almost unfair in Legacy. Almost unfair. Not quite though. You still have to find a way to put all that shit on the battlefield. So I guess its not that unfair, unlike you know, everyone else in the format?
Anyone that tells my that Goblin is broken is a moron. It lets you stack more or less five goblins on the top of your library, then you can cast a four drop and politely wait around while your mana untaps. Woot. Maybe sometimes you will be lucky enough to have an Vial, then you can play two spells a turn. Real spooky. How would Legacy ever survive such power?
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
it was back in the time of food chain gobelin so food chain+recruiter is game over and recruiter on himself is very good.
Food chain in play cast recruiter and nex turn you draw 16 gobelin and attack for a billion.
But recruiter is also good on himself.
So recruiter is combo with food chain and a single card that makes huge card advantage.
Also you have 4 matrons to find the recruiter and cavern of souls to make all that uncounterable. That's likely broken.
I personelly don’t care about colors in magic but I agree that decks that are blue in conjunction with other colors generelly are good and dont need a boost.
I dont mind combo putting up better numbers and that includes a + b combo decks, which i know many players despise, as well as more intricate decks such as ANT or high tide.
To me diversifying meta with more combo is more important than diversifying the color representation, thus i think tinker is fine.
It may be that the deckbuilding cost of tinker is too low since you only need one-two targets and can play one of the best cards in legacy right now, strix, to enable, stall, and negate the card disadvantage of tinker. So maybe it isnt fine.
Survival, frantic and squirrels are other candidates. No matter if they’re blue or green cards, they will likely be played in blue shells
Food chain and Recruiter are never going to be a problem. Foodchain has so many better ways to go off without him that its a stupid idea and Goblins would use him, at most, as a 2 or 3 of not as a combo piece but as an advantage engine that is not all that hard to interact with. People are clinging to the idea that he was an issue in the past, without thinking that the deck he was banned for enabling is now a tier 2.5 deck even after it gets shit it can loop from Exile.
Lets be frank, no one is realistically worried that Goblins with that new toy is going to break the format. Hands up here who would really put down Grixis to play Goblins after it got Recruiter. Go on, I'll wait. Yea I did not think so.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
So now we're up to 2 additional cards to make Recruiter 'broken'... plus the 16 goblins you'll need to do a billion damage
Versus 1 card which the blue deck playing tinker can protect from Swords, Edict, or whatever answer the opposing player is always guaranteed to be holding () by also playing Daze and FoW.
Because it's incredible flexibility makes up for the inherit disadvantage. If I get bridge, it's because you can't beat it. If I get vindicate it's because you were going to win. Or I can get a win con like blightsteel, or sundering titan, or my own combo piece in Helm. You keep saying it's card disadvantage without an understanding that this isn't a vacuum. If I spend two cards to answer your five, (such as tinkering for a bridge against elves) did I gain or lose card advantage? If I spend two cards to stop your combo that you spend 7+ cards on (storm) am I also losing card advantage? Tinker is only card disadvantage when when what is tinker'd for is answered cleanly and immediately.
Or I can use tinker to get the 20/20 flying myself if I wanted to, and it's a little funny that you're saying "the win if not answered" to natural order as if it makes it superior when there's plenty of artifacts that do the same thing.I don't see how tinker is more broken than vampire hexmage which cheats a 20/20 flying indestructible token. Tinker is less powerfull than Natural Order which gets you the win if not answered in elf.
Artifact decks are already a thing and giving them the ultimate tutor/mana cheater is incredibly dangerous.You can't build around tinker something that breaks the format, simply cause there is an answer to every artifact, and I am not even speaking about assassin's trophy/kologhan's command or stuff. there is only sunderig titan and memory jar(which is banned) that might be problematic but the card is ok to me.
Mind's Desire is rightfully banned because even if it were neigh unplayable the fact that it demands you shuffle your deck a hundred times to resolve it means that it's literally too slow.Yes mind's desire is safe, I have tested it and it is too slow and unconsistant.
On recruiter: I think pay 2 never have a dead draw the rest of the game is p good and people are a little too dismissive of it.
The reason though I don't even want to entertain an unban on it is because I don't want to sit there for an hour while some grinder-wannabe looks for the perfect way to stack there deck as if the order between goblin 23 and goblin 24 was going to cost them top 8.
That's a bit of a straw man. Most of the time you shuffle at most once. It could be a bit messy in a match vs something odd like lantern control, but, even then, there are practical ways to shortcut the process.
goblin recruiter is unfair cause it is game with food chain yeah, you search for your deck and just win next turn exiling recruiter for 4R casting ringleader*4 have an hasty warchief and win with piledriver.
That' a two card combo with recruiter being good on his own cause it lets you beat both miracle and grixis with superrior card advantage.
So you have a deck which has both a fast combo kill and that can grind your opponent with huge CA, that's unfair.
Taking the tiers miracle/grixis control/shadow :
Tinker is not that good against miracle your artifact just gets desenchanted/counciled/sworded/terminused and against grixis control it just gets commanded/edicted.
So yes tinker wins against tempo but 3cc cards that wins against tempo are fair ; bridge alone/blood moon also wins against tempo but doesn't require an additional card to sacrifice.
Against elf bridge does nothing they just gsz reclamation sage then symbiote the sage and destroy all the artifacts you can play.
I don't know any artifact that is progentitus (inkwell leviathan is a turn slower) or craterhoof behemoth (wins on the spot except vs terminus), blightsteell colossus is not just sword/edict/destroy artifact answered it, maybe you can tell me ?
Affnity is mono brown maybe it will splash blue for tinker that's fine those decks are tier 2 or 3 for now.
Totally. Let's say it does take greater than 1.5 minutes to resolve; if it is the combo turn and it results in a win/loss, how is that different than Storm Combo's (ANT, TES, Tide) critical turn?
Recruiter is more analogous to Doomsday. There are pre-set piles depending on the circumstances.
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