All B/R update speculation.

[Thresh84]

I don't think anyone hates playing blue. I think people hate the fact that the format is at a point that you either play blue or play chalice or you die

Well, the 10/29 SCG Legacy Classic Washington wants to have a word with you. The top 2 is no blue and 1 Chalice in the board. Also, no DRS to boot.

[Lemnear]

I'm telling you to have some fucking fun with it and see where you might end up rather than sitting around on your ass and bitch that the world doesn't change itself for your convenience .

Besides, if DRS has to go, so do Brainstorm and Ponder. The best way to beat a Brainstorm deck is to run your own Brainstorms, so why not get rid of those too while we're at it? We can keep Daze and FoW since the format needs policing, but that's it.

I didn't advocate for any bans btw because the format is in a better shape than during Miracles. Just saying

Your observation about DRS and Brainstorm is obviously correct. Why bother fighting top tier cards like DRS, Brainstorm, Treasure Cruise, etc with some fringe hate like Spirit of the Labyrinth, if you can simply run them yourself

[Megadeus]

Well, the 10/29 SCG Legacy Classic Washington wants to have a word with you. The top 2 is no blue and 1 Chalice in the board. Also, no DRS to boot.

2 things. SCG Legacy classic on the same weekend as an open is basically a losers consolation tourney where most of the best players are playing day 2 of the main event, and 2 it's also usually a shorter event which does give non blue decks a much better chance

[Echelon]

Nic Fit put two players into Top 16, almost into Top 8. Which further illustrates my point about mana denial. If you're going to play something midrange, you need to be able to consistently develop your mana or you just lose to decks like Delver, D&T, Lands, etc.

Also, I do have a Nic Fit brew I was working on... I call it Nic-Flow, because it's based around Destructive Flow. However, I'm quite content playing decks with blue in big events. Unlike most of the people that post in here, I love playing blue decks. I've been playing blue decks in Legacy since I started playing the format in 2006, and I feel most comfortable playing with them.

EDIT: About the mana denial comment you made... I was simply explaining why I believe DRS is over-represnted right now. I want to play 3 and 4 color decks, some greedy, some not... but if I want to play one and be competitive, I feel like I need DRS in order to do so, else I lose to the mana denial of the format. Why should I have to play Manaless Dredge to beat Wasteland? I'll just run a playset of DRS and call it a day.

Destructive Flow has been done to death. It's too inconsistent (b/c you only have 4 copies) and too slow. That's why you don't see it. Also, while a single T16 isn't adequate data it does show that mana denial can be beat easily enough with a souped up Standard/EDH deck. Just cast Siege Rhino and smash face. Screw DRS .

I didn't advocate for any bans btw because the format is in a better shape than during Miracles. Just saying

Your observation about DRS and Brainstorm is obviously correct. Why bother fighting top tier cards like DRS, Brainstorm, Treasure Cruise, etc with some fringe hate like Spirit of the Labyrinth, if you can simply run them yourself

B/c it's so much more fun to run Nic Fit/Manaless Dredge/Elves! you silly man! Blue decks just sit around all day with their thumbs up their butt, it's boring. Or they combo out on T2, which also gets really boring really quickly. I have no need to sit there and play with myself in a public setting. I'm married, dammit .

[Nielsie]

Wait people are know complaining about mana denial being bad for their 4 color greedy decks?? No shit...

[Echelon]

Wait people are know complaining about mana denial being bad for their 4 color greedy decks?? No shit...

Yes, and that's why DRS should be banned.

This board is hilarious .

I'm perfectly happy with the format as it is, by the way. No need to ban anything at the moment as far as I'm concerned. Meta diversity is fine, fun stuff like Nic Fit is apparantly a viable choice, everything has their good and bad MUs, I don't see the problem. What more do you want?

[Hanni]

Wait people are know complaining about mana denial being bad for their 4 color greedy decks?? No shit...

Wow, you completely missed the entire point. Good job.

PS: I wasn't complaining. If you would have actually read more than just a few posts, you would have seen that my stance is a pretty firm "don't ban anything".

I've probably overstayed my welcome in this thread at this point.

[Stevestamopz]

Wow, you completely missed the entire point. Good job.

PS: I wasn't complaining. If you would have actually read more than just a few posts, you would have seen that my stance is a pretty firm "don't ban anything".

I've probably overstayed my welcome in this thread at this point.

I just saw your player profile on the CardTitan website where you said

"No cards need to be banned. Legacy is a format of powerful and broken cards and that’s why it’s awesome. IF you want to ban good cards, just go play modern."

Do you think we should unban Flash and Black Lotus? Those are arguably two of the most powerful and broken cards after all.

[H]

I just saw your player profile on the CardTitan website where you said

"No cards need to be banned. Legacy is a format of powerful and broken cards and that’s why it’s awesome. IF you want to ban good cards, just go play modern."

Do you think we should unban Flash and Black Lotus? Those are arguably two of the most powerful and broken cards after all.

That sure is a creative way to interpret what he said...

He didn't say, "I think we should unban broken cards." He said, "if you want to ban good cards." If you think typifying Black Lotus as simply a "good card" seems reasonable, I really can't imagine how to have a conversation with you. If you are attempting to draw some kind of parallel between Black Lotus and Deathrite Shaman, you are even further from any realm in which a rational conversation can take place.

Deathrite Shaman is no where near "broken." It is very good. In fact, probably the best creature available in Legacy right now. That doesn't make it broken. Or in need for being banned. Simply riding a carousel where the "best" card constantly gets banned is what makes Modern a shit hole. Let's try to specifically not do that.

[Nestalim]

The day where we will be playing either Xerox, either prison will be probably a bad one, but of course we are far from that.

Be sure than banning BS will not decrease the amount of chalice, too.

[death]

I think people hate the fact that the format is at a point that you either play blue or play chalice or you die.

By this statement, if I choose to play Faerie Stompy since it's both blue and runs chalice I wreck the format? If I play Merfolk do I win a tournament? Or did you just fail to mention Brainstorm? Everyone knows already what Brainstorm does at this point, jamming 4 cards (or 12 cantrips) in a 60 card pile doesn't make a deck invincible. The statement that if you don't play blue you auto-lose is just utterly false. Ditto with chalice.

Or by blue did you mean Force of Will? Then how are decks without Force, Brainstorm, or chalice able to go X-0 in swiss? Maybe because of Deathrite Shaman? Or Griselbrand?

If the current state of Legacy bothers you so much why don't you and nedleeds construct decks without all the above cards and go play against each other? Metagame solved.

[Hanni]

I just saw your player profile on the CardTitan website where you said

"No cards need to be banned. Legacy is a format of powerful and broken cards and that’s why it’s awesome. IF you want to ban good cards, just go play modern."

Do you think we should unban Flash and Black Lotus? Those are arguably two of the most powerful and broken cards after all.

Like H said, you're just reaching at this point. My statement is in regards to the current Legacy format. I didn't say anything about unbanning degenerate cards like Black Lotus. I'm not asking to unban Ancestral Recall, I'm saying that what makes Legacy enjoyable (for me) is that it is filled with powerful cards like Brainstorm, DRS, Show and Tell, Gaea's Cradle, so on and so forth.

If you want truly degenerate, you play Vintage. If you want a well balanced but powerful format, you play Legacy. If you want to shoot eachother with nerf guns, you play Modern. Don't misinterpret my statement urging away from turning Legacy into Modern by thinking I want to turn Legacy into Vintage.

My stance is firmly that Legacy is perfect right now. At this point, I don't see any value in continuing to post in here. So while I appreciate your personal attack in trying to pull me back in, I'm pretty content with bowing out now.

[Ronald Deuce]

I've probably overstayed my welcome in this thread at this point.

Please don't go! Don't let the "Restructure EVERYTHING!" guys get you down!

[Star|Scream]

Now I kinda want to play legacy with Black Lotus and Flash legal.

[taconaut]

Now I kinda want to play legacy with Black Lotus and Flash legal.

I was actually kinda thinking the opposite, and wondering what it would be like to play in the "Megadeus and Stevestamops Presents: The Nedleeds Memorial Tournament" (banlist: just the regular legacy one, except survival is legal and all blue cards are not).

[Lemnear]

I was actually kinda thinking the opposite, and wondering what it would be like to play in the "Megadeus and Stevestamops Presents: The Nedleeds Memorial Tournament" (banlist: just the regular legacy one, except survival is legal and all blue cards, combo engines, mana artifacts and I-win-fatties are not).

Minor fix

[MGB]

Question: what would the meta look like if they unbanned Oath of Druids?

Would it just be all various version of Oath decks? Like it was when Survival was in the format at the end?

[Megadeus]

Question: what would the meta look like if they unbanned Oath of Druids?

Would it just be all various version of Oath decks? Like it was when Survival was in the format at the end?

Non blue creature decks would be pretty bad

[death]

Question: what would the meta look like if they unbanned Oath of Druids?

Would it just be all various version of Oath decks? Like it was when Survival was in the format at the end?

It will look like somewhere in between Survival and Flash when they were in the format to be exact.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Question: what would the meta look like if they unbanned Oath of Druids?

Would it just be all various version of Oath decks? Like it was when Survival was in the format at the end?

Griselbrand would be the most played creature in the format, bar none.