All B/R update speculation.

[H]

I didn't say that evry card that can be answered shldn't be banned, most cards which are banned are because they are must answered or win on the spot, produce huge CA (here recruiter) or too much redundance (one cc tutors).

Unfortunately, your criteria doesn't even pass it's own internal logic. Cards that are banned because they "must be answered" are fine to ban. OK, good thinking.

However, then you say:

Tinker is fine cause you just search for an artifact that can be easily answered.

Now the criterion is different. Now cards that "must be answered" are OK, so long as they get something "easily answered."

You'll probably retort that Tinker is not a "must answer" card then. So, I'll preemptively ask you, if your opponent Tinkers for Blightsteel on Turn 1. What do you need to do? Get a ham sandwich? Take up sailing? Or, perhaps, you must answer Blightsteel (and by extension, the Tinker) or the game ends?

Sorry man, I love Tinker too. It's not a Legacy card though, by any stretch of the imagination.

[adrieng]

Just cast your one mana sword, your two mana diabolic edict in this term show and tell is much more problematic cause griselbrand or omnisience is GG and it doesn't even produce card disadvantage.

Or vampire hexmage into marit lage.
Also tinker turn one is harder to do than show and tell turn one you need tomb+2 petals contrary tomb+petal for show and tell.

There is alos lot of hate available grafdigger's cage and containment priest

[H]

Just cast your one mana sword, your two mana diabolic edict in this term show and tell is much more problematic cause griselbrand or omnisience is GG and it doesn't even produce card disadvantage.

So, now you've conceded that the Tinker was must answer and then further proved so by illustrating your idea that Show and Tell is a must answer card and then likening Tinker to it. If Show and Tell is a problem, then so would Tinker be. Again, you've failed your own logical foundation for why Tinker is OK to unban. Card disadvantage doesn't matter if your play wins the game. In fact, this is why Force of Will is a playable card.

In reality, Tinker is likely much better than Show and Tell, because it only requires 1 copy of a given artifact to be in the deck, not in your hand, when you cast it. This means the rest of your deck can have more things that aren't redundant, dead combo pieces. And you propose it as OK in a format with 4x Brainstorm no less.

Sorry, your analysis defies logic, even it's own established kind, and anything we can see as good sense. You really need to do better.

Or vampire hexmage into marit lage.
Also tinker turn one is harder to do than show and tell turn one you need tomb+2 petals contrary tomb+petal for show and tell.

There is alos lot of hate available grafdigger's cage and containment priest

Well, now you went and added this, further moving the goal posts. Now, you equate Tinker with A+B combos. Which it isn't.

But then, you attempt to make the case that "available hate" means it is OK to unban. There is the same hate for Oath of Druids, is that card OK to unban?

You aren't making any coherent argument. Just declaring "facts" which you imagine support your precluded idea that Tinker is OK to unban. It's not. And you've done nothing to illustrate the idea that it would or could be.

[PirateKing]

This is all a joke but:

Sol Land, Grim Monolith, Lotus Petal, Tinker is 4 cards to win, assuming Blightsteel with a single turn for the opponent to draw something or die.

Sol Land, Lotus Petal, Show and Tell & card in hand is 4 cards to win, assuming same win condition. If Omniscience is the card in hand, then 5 cards needed to follow up with. Also they get to put a card into play.

A joke is a joke, but come on.

[Mr. Safety]

Just cast your one mana sword, your two mana diabolic edict in this term show and tell is much more problematic cause griselbrand or omnisience is GG and it doesn't even produce card disadvantage.

Or vampire hexmage into marit lage.
Also tinker turn one is harder to do than show and tell turn one you need tomb+2 petals contrary tomb+petal for show and tell.

There is alos lot of hate available grafdigger's cage and containment priest

I'm pretty sure if Tinker was legal the deck built around it would have free artifacts to sacrifice in abundance. At a minimum I think it would have some amount of Baubles (Mishras, Urza's), Lotus Petals, Chrome Mox, maybe even Mox Opal. T1 Tinker would be a breeze, protected with your friend and mine, Force of Will. That's just the speed issue; the other issue is what can you do with it if you have 1-2 turns to set up? It would be depressing.

Blightsteel is one avenue but I wouldn't want to see Sundering Titan or Inkwell Leviathan, either. Turning a Seat of the Synod into any of those is broken not just for efficiency, but because it's also a tutor. Show and Tell at least requires you to have your combo piece in hand. And don't get me started on how Chalice of the Void/Trinisphere would be nuts in a Tinker deck, either.

[adrieng]

the problem with what you are saying is that show and tell wins if not COUNTERED while with tinker you have much more answers you have also removals ; meaning you have no dead cards in your deck to answer it.
Show and tell is much better than tinker and it is not ban and it is not even a tier one deck so I don't see any reason why tinker is banned. That would prodcue new tier 2-3 decks good for diversity but likely not break the format.

[H]

the problem with what you are saying is that show and tell wins if not COUNTERED while with tinker you have much more answers you have also removals ; meaning you have no dead cards in your deck to answer it.
Show and tell is much better than tinker and it is not ban and it is not even a tier one deck so I don't see any reason why tinker is banned. That would prodcue new tier 2-3 decks good for diversity but likely not break the format.

Most removal in the game does not deal with Blightsteel. Even most of the removal actually played doesn't. Again, there are answers to every card in the game, that doesn't make them healthy to unban in Legacy. You could preemptively Pithing Needle Survival of the Fittest, but that doesn't mean Survival is ok to unban. Also, when resolving Tinker, you are not set on getting just Blightsteel. You could have Thoughtsiezed your opponent earlier and knowing what they have, get something they can't answer, again, because as has been pointed out, Tinker is a tutor.

Again, your argument makes no real logical sense even by it's own proposed rules.

[Ronald Deuce]

Once more for the cheap seats: Show and Tell has a built-in out to itself.

[Brainstorm Ape]

Unban Library, clearly a win-more card, dies to Wasteland, 8 card combo.

Source: My extensive experience playing it in Cube decks on mulls to 5. Didn't do shit, so much for "most powerful land". Overhyped/10 would not tap.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Unban Library, clearly a win-more card, dies to Wasteland, 8 card combo.

Source: My extensive experience playing it in Cube decks on mulls to 5. Didn't do shit, so much for "most powerful land". Overhyped/10 would not tap.

Can confirm.

[kinda]

They could reprint tinker at RRR, then it would be fine.

[Lemnear]

Jesus fucking Christ! Why is Tinker compared with SnT? One combo uses 5 slots total and one combo piece in hand, the other needs 12-16 and 2 combo parts in hand. Claiming the first is worse than the second clearly was not the slightest clue of deck construction/theory.

Edit:

They could reprint tinker at RRR, then it would be fine.

Sure. Give modern storm access to t1/t2 Blightsteel Colossus. Seems fine.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Shuffling once, then revealing all the cards is a legal shortcut -- assuming nothing has intervened in between resolutions that would change the state of your deck.

There's good reasons Mind's Desire is banned, but the shuffling time isn't them.

So if you're in a close game, or up a game, you don't use the shortcut and waste all the time?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Sure. Give modern storm access to t1/t2 Blightsteel Colossus. Seems fine.

I would certainly be happier with Modern if storm tried to kill me with a blightsteel colossus instead of grapeshot.

[H]

Unban Library, clearly a win-more card, dies to Wasteland, 8 card combo.

Source: My extensive experience playing it in Cube decks on mulls to 5. Didn't do shit, so much for "most powerful land". Overhyped/10 would not tap.

Upvote. Library of Alexandria is the sucks.

I think Black Lotus is safe to unban too. One time, I drew it on turn 7 and it was absolute fucking garbage. Another time, my opponent was on the Play and put a Chalice on Zero! Black Lotus worse than a land, confirmed. Card is just not very good unless you specifically have it turn 1 and you are on the play. Clearly safe to unban in Legacy. Ceremonious Rejection exists too.

[Bithlord]

So if you're in a close game, or up a game, you don't use the shortcut and waste all the time?

I played it in extended. Time shuffling wasn't an issue -- because if you play it for any reasonable amount the game is over already and your opponent concedes unless it's their second loss. in extended, playing it for 5-6 was enough to win easily. In Legacy you would be able to get much higher numbers, with relative ease.

[Lemnear]

Upvote. Library of Alexandria is the sucks.

I think Black Lotus is safe to unban too. One time, I drew it on turn 7 and it was absolute fucking garbage. Another time, my opponent was on the Play and put a Chalice on Zero! Black Lotus worse than a land, confirmed. Card is just not very good unless you specifically have it turn 1 and you are on the play. Clearly safe to unban in Legacy. Ceremonious Rejection exists too.

Exactly! All these Mana Vaults, Mox emeralds, Sol Rings and Workshops are junk if you cant cast your Ancestral off them. No need to keep that useless junk restricted or outright banned. Ridiculous.

[PirateKing]

Exactly! All these Mana Vaults, Mox emeralds, Sol Rings and Workshops are junk if you cant cast your Ancestral off them. No need to keep that useless junk restricted or outright banned. Ridiculous.

I agree, ban Islands!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I agree, ban Islands!

But then how am I going to pay Nix? Which I shouldn't have to tell you is the best answer to to lotus bloom!

[PirateKing]

But then how am I going to pay Nix? Which I shouldn't have to tell you is the best answer to to lotus bloom!

Eladamri's Vineyard into Manamorphose, the way God intended