Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
I've said it before in DRS discussions before, if it was just limited to your graveyard à la Grim Lavamancer it'd be good but safe. Gone would be the two-pronged offense of eating your opponent's Griselbrand or Lingering Souls and getting value; and you'd be resource limited much faster, especially on mana.
Or print Grim Lavamancer saying two cards from any graveyard. I'd be happy with that too.
It's because white gets the best hate creatures while green is the best at big-beater / card-advantage creatures. The latter strategy just doesn't work in Legacy or even Modern really. Way too many broken things are happening for a non-disruptive, fair, creature-based strategy to get any traction.
The bigger offender in this paradigm is the fact that black gets a 5/5 for 1 mana and blue gets a 3/2 flyer for 1 mana and a stupid card in TNN that should have never been printed. Since blue and black get the best aggro creatures it largely invalidates green in all of the blue decks.
I wish they would open more design space for WR and GW to be competitive. If they made some pushed cards in those color that could generate some new decks or at the very least different combinations of splash colors for blue decks.
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Ban Chalice of the Void! It's unfair to blue players everywhere!
- 'Pathy' on MTGO
- Eastern PA player
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As someone who has been playing Legacy for nearly 10 years and has never registered a deck without 4 Chalice of the Void in the main deck at any Legacy event, I have to say that burn and dredge actually have a higher win-rate vs. me than the entire conglomerate of blue decks does. Elves might be even, and I don't think I've ever seen Pox more than 2-3 times in the past 10 years.
- 'Pathy' on MTGO
- Eastern PA player
All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
PM me if you want to contribute!
This may be a peripheral discussion but still (a beggar can't choose, perhaps a legacy afficionado cannot be too picky). I wanted to add something that I thought might have been mentioned earlier in the discussion, and sure enough it's there in the first post's edit..
I'll just repeat that as long as Deathrite was not played in Grixis Delver or Grixis Control, most people (not all) didn't have a problem with it. Its powerlevel was very reasonable in Maverick, The Rock, Deadguy Ale, MOST, and even BUG Delver variants [edit: and Elves too, this deck was never demolishing the format]. That last one is rather surprising actually, BUG Delver was not too good but Grixis Delver was. I guess this may have something to do with the interaction between Gitaxian Probe and Young Pyromancer (Cabal Therapy lost favor, iirc, maybe Gurmag should be added here too), and this strong synergy of the deck has been addressed now, too. So, even if Deathrite deals two damage to the opponent's face, we already have very clear evidence on this not being far too strong for Legacy, I'd say. I agree that weakening it this way, letting it deal 1 damage only, would still leave it a very useful creature and thus should be done.
Edit: the point I'm making here is that the effects of Deathrite were fine, as shown by the empirical evidence of how the format turned out which could be easily recognized from the DtB section. It was only the too flexible casting cost, allowing play in Grixis decks, that made it a problem. Probably it would benefit from being a bit weaker, like dealing less damage to the opponent, but even in its super strong form it didn't make most green decks t1. So you could even argue that fair green decks needed this power level to stand a chance, this is the type of creature green needs to be relevant next to the blue shell. It was apparently still too weak to make the difference.
When it comes to Grim Lavamancer, its power lies more in board control than dealing 2 damage to the opponent, and this aspect Deathrite lacks, so I think comparing with Lavamancer is to some extent relevant but not very relevant.
I mean, the tension in Delver was that classically, green offered you beats, red speed and black better removal and if you played slower, GB had raw CA and big beats. You had to choose two, which is why RUG and BUG had such distinct character. Green was the weakest color in the pile, though, sans DRS' improved ability to play long and big. The dream was always to get both red speed and good black removal. Now with Angler, Pyromancer and TNN, you don't have to choose. Playing Green is shooting yourself in the foot.
Originally Posted by Lemnear
This was certainly true when DRS was legal (Grixis being best Delver deck), but at this point Grixis Delver is just a deck with 4x Delver which is more or less small Grixis “control“ featuring Wasteland, rather than a real Delver deck. Playing Wasteland and Daze in a deck that wants the game to go long (playing around 3x TNN and being unable to reliably open with a threat) is inherently suspect.
Even though small Grixis has enough generically good cards to float around tier 1.5-ish, the comment about playing green in Delver should be revisited. DRS is gone and they just printed Cindervines into an actual Delver deck (8x turn 1 threats, RUG Delver). RUG is still less winning than small Grixis (because it‘s gone longer without a creature upgrade), but they had a new avenue opened in terms of ways to play a true Delver strategy. Green now represents a proactive [count to 20] tool which also counts as something like Pernicious Deed for anything [actual] Delver cared about. If they print a creature to replace Goose or Goyf (only a matter of time since green gets the best rates), there‘s going to be some meaningful innovation possible. As long as DRS is banned, green is going to remain the color of most latent potential rather than liability.
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The best decks in legacy might not be playing-brainstorm
Originally Posted by Bob HuangOriginally Posted by Bob Huang
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