View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

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192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #18121

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    ^ "you cant have just one" is lays not pringles. Smh.

    Real talk format is great right now, plz no bans :(

  2. #18122
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    It is Pringles. If you are gonna nerd someone, do it right.


    But the format is definitely looking good. I saw both aggro loam and dragon stompy had a good October. If the format is ripe for these guys, it is pretty neutral.
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  3. #18123

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I wouldn't say fetches are 'untouchable', but that they're more like Pringles. You can't just ban one of them.
    The problem with fetches is that they're so necessary for format access - if you ban them, it probably just makes duals skyrocket in price, now that you can't get away with playing exactly six plus a bunch of pseudo-proxies that let you find them. I think getting rid of them could potentially have cool, interesting implications on the format for manabases if it weren't already so predicated on owning an optimal combination of reserved list cards.

    ETA: Pringles is "once you pop, you can't stop;" "Betcha can't have just one" is Lay's. Pringles are delicious.

  4. #18124
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    ETA: Pringles is "once you pop, you can't stop;" "Betcha can't have just one" is Lay's. Pringles are delicious.
    They both apply then lol.

  5. #18125

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Kind of a random question, and not really related to the Legacy banlist, but I figured people here might actually know this. Sword of the Ages was restricted way back in 1994, and I can't figure out why. There's a number of early bans/restrictions that seem goofy nowadays, but I've been able to figure out or find out the reasons for them, even if sometimes in retrospect they weren't very good. But I'm confused as to what in the world Sword of the Ages did to get restricted, and searching online doesn't seem to give me the answer. Was it part of some kind of combo back then? Anyone know?

  6. #18126
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    Kind of a random question, and not really related to the Legacy banlist, but I figured people here might actually know this. Sword of the Ages was restricted way back in 1994, and I can't figure out why. There's a number of early bans/restrictions that seem goofy nowadays, but I've been able to figure out or find out the reasons for them, even if sometimes in retrospect they weren't very good. But I'm confused as to what in the world Sword of the Ages did to get restricted, and searching online doesn't seem to give me the answer. Was it part of some kind of combo back then? Anyone know?
    This is from Menendian's Schools of Magic article, his source for this is "The Duelist (Issue 10) May 1996: p. 58. Print." I don't own old copies of The Duelist magazine, but I'm sure Stephen's research shows the only real "answer" we can have to this question.

    Sword of the Ages gave heavy creature decks a faster, combat avoidant win condition that was virtually unstoppable once it hit the table, according to the DC. Sword of the Ages was considered unfair for tournament play, and restricted. It may have been more likely the case that Sword of the Ages discouraged players from sending their creatures into combat. Instead, players would quietly build a large army, waiting back until Sword of the Ages could be played.
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  7. #18127

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    This is from Menendian's Schools of Magic article, his source for this is "The Duelist (Issue 10) May 1996: p. 58. Print." I don't own old copies of The Duelist magazine, but I'm sure Stephen's research shows the only real "answer" we can have to this question.
    Interesting. Thank you very much. If I ever stumble across a copy of that issue, I'll see if they go into more detail on it.

  8. #18128

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    As a MUD/Eldrazi Post player, I've always wondered what the format would be like if Tinker were legal.

    Kuldotha Forgemaster is basically like a much weaker Tinker and it sees competitive play in the Tier 2 Metalworker MUD deck.

    What if the Ancient Tomb decks legitimately had access to the original Tinker as a 4-of? How strong would the deck be? Would Chalice+Tomb+Monolith+Key+Islands be more of an artifact-heavy deck or would it be a primarily blue deck with an artifact win condition?
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  9. #18129

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    As a MUD/Eldrazi Post player, I've always wondered what the format would be like if Tinker were legal.

    Kuldotha Forgemaster is basically like a much weaker Tinker and it sees competitive play in the Tier 2 Metalworker MUD deck.

    What if the Ancient Tomb decks legitimately had access to the original Tinker as a 4-of? How strong would the deck be? Would Chalice+Tomb+Monolith+Key+Islands be more of an artifact-heavy deck or would it be a primarily blue deck with an artifact win condition?
    As a Painter/DGA player i'm wondering what would happen if magic players understood the concept of a Odd/Even roll.

    High roll is basically like a much weaker Odd/Even and it sees competitive play at the start of every match.

    What if magic players legitimately knew that Odd/Even rolls involve the same concepts of randomization as High Roll? How strong would that be? Would people use it at the start of their normal matches or would it primarily be used in top 8 matches?
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    There's no control, not even close. The 4cc is nowhere near the classical sense of control, neither is Standstill. Mid-range strategy is called mid-range at best, don't try to sneak the word control into it.

  10. #18130
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    As a Painter/DGA player i'm wondering what would happen if magic players understood the concept of a Odd/Even roll.

    High roll is basically like a much weaker Odd/Even and it sees competitive play at the start of every match.

    What if magic players legitimately knew that Odd/Even rolls involve the same concepts of randomization as High Roll? How strong would that be? Would people use it at the start of their normal matches or would it primarily be used in top 8 matches?
    Thank god someone said this, for the love of god, YES.

    Odds/Even = 1 action from each player. I roll, you call.

    High Roll = (usually) 2 dice being rolled TWICE and then having to do year 2 math twice! And sometimes you have to do it again because you both rolled the same number! Oh the humanity. I didn't sign up for year 2 math exercises, I signed up for Legacy.
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  11. #18131
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    But high roll is fundamentally skewed because it is a normal distribution, leading to more ties, as well as a rigged game(some engineer I met said high roll was cheating and not random, clearly since he was an engineer he knows math I guess).

    For clock reasons alone I don't know why high roll (2d6) hasn't been banned yet, this is probably the real reason rounds were going to time. #topisthevictim. #makemiraclesgreatagain #doomsdaydiedforhighrollsins

  12. #18132
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Color me incredibly confused
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  13. #18133
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Someone mentioned the card Tinker, people reacted correctly.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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  14. #18134
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Tinker, we vintage now?
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  15. #18135
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasDowd View Post
    But high roll is fundamentally skewed because it is a normal distribution, leading to more ties, as well as a rigged game(some engineer I met said high roll was cheating and not random, clearly since he was an engineer he knows math I guess).
    This statement makes me sad.
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  16. #18136

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    This statement makes me sad.
    Because it's a really poor attempt at trolling?

  17. #18137

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    As a MUD/Eldrazi Post player, I've always wondered what the format would be like if Tinker were legal.

    Kuldotha Forgemaster is basically like a much weaker Tinker and it sees competitive play in the Tier 2 Metalworker MUD deck.

    What if the Ancient Tomb decks legitimately had access to the original Tinker as a 4-of? How strong would the deck be? Would Chalice+Tomb+Monolith+Key+Islands be more of an artifact-heavy deck or would it be a primarily blue deck with an artifact win condition?
    I'll be the first one to take this post seriously.
    Show and Tell is considered to be a format-defining card, being one of the strongest enablers for cheating massive pokèmons into play for a very cheap three mana cost.
    Now, Show and Tell decks, although being one of the top combo decks in legacy, have one notable issue. In order to get your fatties into play, you gotta fill your deck with them.
    Imagine you're playing Sneak and Show, and you open a 7-card hand with two fatties: it's virtually a mulligan to six, because you have no immediate use for your 2nd creature.
    Don't get me wrong, it's still good, but it's not very efficient. You waste a lot of space in your deck in order to win, often resulting in clunky hands where you are forced to burn a lot of resources.

    Now, imagine a world where Show and Tell doesn't require you to play 4 Emrakul, the Aeons Tornl, 4 Griselbrand and 0-2 Omniscience, because it also acts as a Demonic Tutor in a blue shell; a cheaper Natural Order in the best color of the format.

    That wouldn't really be a good idea. Forgemaster has the same effect as tinker, but its other features (type, cmc, ecc...) are strongly restricting your deckbuild choices. The guy's viable in one deck and that's about it. Tinker, on the other hand, would not be. You could play 4 tinker in ANT and get many quick unstoppable wins; or play a Blue-Brown stompy and get the random 11/11 infect out of a mox diamond; maybe you could play it in Painter or Bomberman. Just too good.

    Frankly, not a good idea.

  18. #18138
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I can understand the reaction to a post asking if a one card combo occupying 5 slots in a deck is stronger than a two card combo taking at least 12 slots.
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  19. #18139

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasDowd View Post
    But high roll is fundamentally skewed because it is a normal distribution...
    I don't think this is true.
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  20. #18140

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I have been waiting in silence couple of years that someone creates a new topic with new ban poll. There could be unban poll too. :) Should I still wait couple of more years?

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