View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1061 of 1067 FirstFirst ... 6156196110111051105710581059106010611062106310641065 ... LastLast
Results 21,201 to 21,220 of 21323

Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #21201

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    Im proposing you this scenario.

    Stax dumps its hand (image tangle wires added aswell) and then jar.
    MUD could absolutely abuse it. With a Chalice/3sphere on the board, you draw 7. Opponent can't cast spells. Metalworker+Voltaic Key generates enough mana to cast your whole hand. Then opponent discards without getting to use the extra cards.

    Red MUD (Welder, Daretti) could do something similar.

    Would that break Legacy? I doubt it. More MUD seems good.

    The real test is whether Jar would break TES/ANT in 2019. Ad Nauseam doesn't want 5cmc cards, so you wouldn't see both. Jar would have to be busted enough to replace Ad Nauseam. Is that true? I don't know. On the plus side you could jam 4 copies and never worry about life total. On the down side, you feed opponent FoWs. You could rejig the deck to run Silence instead of discard (and board into Xantid Swarm). Is that so much better than current ANT that it breaks Legacy? Where's Bryant Cook at?

  2. #21202
    Land Destruction Enthusiast
    Megadeus's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2012
    Location

    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts

    5,228

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    The only upside to jar I see over PiF is graveyard independence. Otherwise it's probably good and there's probably a build there but I'm not an expert on the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  3. #21203
    Some dipshit of a Moderator.
    Dice_Box's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    A Tabernacle in some random Valley.
    Posts

    4,723

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Not true. Academy hit the B/R list before Jar was printed.
    Humh. Which card did I mess it us with then? Thanks.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  4. #21204
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    7,022

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    The real test is whether Jar would break TES/ANT in 2019. Ad Nauseam doesn't want 5cmc cards, so you wouldn't see both. Jar would have to be busted enough to replace Ad Nauseam. Is that true? I don't know. On the plus side you could jam 4 copies and never worry about life total. On the down side, you feed opponent FoWs. You could rejig the deck to run Silence instead of discard (and board into Xantid Swarm). Is that so much better than current ANT that it breaks Legacy? Where's Bryant Cook at?
    Ad Nauseam is easier to access thanks to Wishes, draws more cards and doesnt refill your opponents hand in a blue field.

    The strategy of Draw7s isnt really successful in Legacy due to the lack of SoLoMoxen and lacking speed of the Draw7s unlike in old Vintage Long.dec variants which popped Draw7 turn 1 easily.

    I dont think that Jar would add anything worthwhile to Legacy storm, otherwise Diminishing Returns would already see more play.
    www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!

    Join us at Facebook!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  5. #21205

    All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    Ad Nauseam is easier to access thanks to Wishes, draws more cards and doesnt refill your opponents hand in a blue field.

    The strategy of Draw7s isnt really successful in Legacy due to the lack of SoLoMoxen and lacking speed of the Draw7s unlike in old Vintage Long.dec variants which popped Draw7 turn 1 easily.

    I dont think that Jar would add anything worthwhile to Legacy storm, otherwise Diminishing Returns would already see more play.
    Ad Nauseam can not be wished for but in TES it usually one-sidedly draws 15 cards where the life loss doesnt matter as the game usually ends that turn. I dont think jar will replace ad nauseam in that deck.

    It might be interesting in AnT where Ad Nauseam isnt nearly as good. Opponents draw could be thwarted with sience/swarm effects which have upside over discard versus flusterstorm,snapcaster and azcanta anyway.

    I donít mind boosting stax or welder decks at all. I am very happy with this new discussion after pages and pages of brainstorm and fetchland bashing.

  6. #21206
    Member
    Airwave's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2013
    Location

    Netherlands
    Posts

    148

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Maybe the poll should be re-opened and changed into:

    Which card should be taken off the ban list?


  7. #21207
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    3,735

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    Jar is a busted card that probably doesn't need to be unbanned.

    But Griselbrand is just as busted in every way and should be banned if Jar is the standard.
    This is an honest statement. After seeing the scenarios with Jar I can see it's potency now, but are those any worse than Dark Ritual > Entomb > Exhume > draw 7 and win? If Legacy is the only 4 Brainstorm format than it should be the only 4 Memory Jar format too!

    #freememoryjar
    #fuck'emwithstaxx
    #nicejace,loser
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  8. #21208

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jolssoni View Post
    I too want what few Legacy GPs and Opens remain to go additional 10 minutes to time every round.
    Never been to a legacy GP, but... Are there *any* rounds that don't have at least one game go to time already? If "yes" than whats the big deal about a few more? If "no" then, I don't believe you.

  9. #21209

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bithlord View Post
    Never been to a legacy GP, but... Are there *any* rounds that don't have at least one game go to time already? If "yes" than whats the big deal about a few more? If "no" then, I don't believe you.
    Exactly.

  10. #21210
    Bob Ross
    Kap'n Cook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2012
    Location

    West Coast
    Posts

    519

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Intentional slowplay and unskilled players are the only reasons rounds ever go to time. Slow players will always play slow regardless of what deck they use.

    Cast Brainstorm. Draw three cards. Think for a minute. Put two cards back while thinking. Change their mind, pick up the two cards off the top of the deck, put another two back. Crack fetch, shuffle for 30 seconds. Cast ponder. Put hand down. Pick up three cards off the top of the deck. Put down the three cards. Pick up hand. Pick up the three cards in other hand, look at all of them together. Think. Choose to shuffle.

    That scenario probably happens in the majority of all legacy games and is the primary reason rounds take forever. Not really sure how this was Top's fault when counterbalance was the only thing incentivizing Miracles players to constantly spin top and contribute nothing to the board state.


    Thanks Wizards, you made the right choice and really understand the format.
    Strawberry Shortcake

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake

    What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
    #FreeNedleeds

  11. #21211

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Intentional slowplay and unskilled players are the only reasons rounds ever go to time. Slow players will always play slow regardless of what deck they use.

    Cast Brainstorm. Draw three cards. Think for a minute. Put two cards back while thinking. Change their mind, pick up the two cards off the top of the deck, put another two back. Crack fetch, shuffle for 30 seconds. Cast ponder. Put hand down. Pick up three cards off the top of the deck. Put down the three cards. Pick up hand. Pick up the three cards in other hand, look at all of them together. Think. Choose to shuffle.

    That scenario probably happens in the majority of all legacy games and is the primary reason rounds take forever. Not really sure how this was Top's fault when counterbalance was the only thing incentivizing Miracles players to constantly spin top and contribute nothing to the board state.


    Thanks Wizards, you made the right choice and really understand the format.
    Thank you for putting into words the sentiments of which I have tried to iterate previously, they kept coming out as screams of rage instead of something intelligent like your post. I so wish CB had died that day instead.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  12. #21212
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    7,022

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Cast Brainstorm. Draw three cards. Think for a minute.
    I think the correct order for stallers is: Put Brainstorm on the table, think about which land to tap, ask for it to resolve, draw 1, tank, draw 1, tank, draw 1 tank, rearange cards in hand two times, put hand down to browse through the graveyard, pick up hand again, rearange cards, put one card on the table face down, rearange, look at the card on the table, select a second card to put on the table face down, put down hand and pickup the two card to flip them around at least 3 times to decide the order to put them back, put back the cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Put two cards back while thinking. Change their mind, pick up the two cards off the top of the deck, put another two back.
    I like that cuz i would get the player DQ'd for drawing extra cards that way.
    www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!

    Join us at Facebook!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  13. #21213

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post

    I like that cuz i would get the player DQ'd for drawing extra cards that way.
    Drawing extra cards isn't a DQ.

  14. #21214
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    998

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Drawing extra cards isn't a DQ.
    Like 2 EW ago in Philly I'm pretty sure someone got DQ'd for effectively drawing a bonus card when they put the wrong number back with Bstorm [or some scenario like that]. Not sure if they had other warnings though

  15. #21215

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    It is not a DQ, at worst it get fixed by "casting" enough your opponent looks at your hand and shuffles a card he wants back into your library to get back to the original amount of cards in hand.
    Also, if you cast brainstorm, and while it resolves you put the two cards back on top of your library and then quickly take them back you get a warning at worst
    "You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"

  16. #21216
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    7,022

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    Also, if you cast brainstorm, and while it resolves you put the two cards back on top of your library and then quickly take them back you get a warning at worst
    In case of Alex B. that's 4+3 cards drawn and 2 put back i guess.
    www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!

    Join us at Facebook!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  17. #21217

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    In case of Alex B. that's 4+3 cards drawn and 2 put back i guess.
    To be fair, in the case of Alex B I'd DQ him anyways and shrug when getting told it's just a warning
    Last edited by FourDogsinaHorseSuit; 01-20-2019 at 11:23 AM.

  18. #21218
    Some dipshit of a Moderator.
    Dice_Box's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    A Tabernacle in some random Valley.
    Posts

    4,723

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Oh Alex, the one banning this thread can agree on.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  19. #21219
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    7,022

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Oh Alex, the one banning this thread can agree on.
    /thread

    No?
    www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!

    Join us at Facebook!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  20. #21220
    plays Mountains
    Ace/Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2011
    Location

    Philadelphia Area
    Posts

    2,110

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Krark-Clan Ironworks is banned in Modern.

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...d-announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by WotC
    Nearly one year since the last change to the Modern banned list, R&D has continued to monitor the evolution and health of the format. During this time period, Krark-Clan Ironworks decks have risen to prominence at the Grand Prix level of play, posting more individual-play Modern Grand Prix Top 8 finishes than any other archetype, despite being only a modest portion of the field. In fact, only one other archetype, White-Blue Control, has posted more than half as many Top 8 finishes as Ironworks in those events. With no signs of the Ironworks deck's dominance at the GP level slowing down, we've decided to take action by banning the card Krark-Clan Ironworks.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 10 users browsing this thread. (4 members and 6 guests)

  1. Andy_Prime
  2. Bithlord
  3. Kage
  4. whienot