View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

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  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #21761
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Steely Resolve is so fucking good fight now. As is Pithing Needle. I don't love the match but I'm not going on without a plan. Oh and helpfully, Gaak and Lage are Avatar's.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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  2. #21762
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I'm back to 4 Needle main in Turbo Depths. There are so many targets in the format right now that it's almost never dead.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  3. #21763
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    All that Depths has to worry about are isolated cards while parasitizing the profound damage NBC RUG can deal itself by losing key land drops.

    Gotta take everything coming out of RUG Delver with a grain of salt if they‘re complaining about a matchup that feels bad at the same time as they cut Stifle. They played themselves into a dubious board states and a questionable backup plan in hand (countermagic vs Veil: the green card that loses to Stifle).
    Playing Hogaak Depths I've found RUG&Six to be a pretty easy matchup. Maybe this is because, as you say, they're messing with their own mana optimization while diluting what they excelled at by cutting Stifle for slower interactions. When they use resources to keep you off Marit Lage, the Hogaak plan punishes them pretty hard.

  4. #21764

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Emergency ban incoming on standard and modern, B&R announcement moved from Nov. 18 to Oct. 21st.

    Field of the Dead is gone in Standard (how they thought this would still be an ok card after all the LD - specifically Field of Ruin) rotated out is beyond me)

    Guessing in Modern they'll hit Urza, and probably Mox Opal as well. Hopefully Ancient Stirrings gets nailed too so they don't have to do this again in another month.

    I don't think anything changes in Legacy unless the recent tournament data decides Hogaak/Depths needs to take a hit?

    They've already said no changes will be coming to Vintage.

  5. #21765

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I wouldnt be opposed to a marit lage ban. The format can live without a ban on marit lage, but a land combo that one shots opponents is simply not my definition of fun. It also inhibits future design space. As long as wrenn and six doesnt get the banhammer in fine with it. My thought is that arcums astrolabe might get axed in pauper and modern before urza.

    If they ban all the money rares of modern horizons, thats going to have repercussions on the MH2. If they can fix problems by banning a cheaper card, they should, because if they hit the money cards then they can wave goodbye to their collectors edition whale hunting expedition.

  6. #21766

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I wouldnt be opposed to a marit lage ban. The format can live without a ban on marit lage, but a land combo that one shots opponents is simply not my definition of fun. It also inhibits future design space. As long as wrenn and six doesnt get the banhammer in fine with it. My thought is that arcums astrolabe might get axed in pauper and modern before urza.

    If they ban all the money rares of modern horizons, thats going to have repercussions on the MH2. If they can fix problems by banning a cheaper card, they should, because if they hit the money cards then they can wave goodbye to their collectors edition whale hunting expedition.
    Lots of instant-speed answers to the Marit Lage token in the format and also Wasteland so don't see any justification to ban Dark Depths.

    Anyway, this is probably being moved mostly for Field of the Dead, which is quite powerful in Standard right now but a ban seems heavy handed as I don't think it's that good. It was pretty dumb not to have some kind of standard-level wasteland in Eldraine though.

  7. #21767
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Field of the Dead is gone in Standard (how they thought this would still be an ok card after all the LD - specifically Field of Ruin) rotated out is beyond me)

    Guessing in Modern they'll hit Urza, and probably Mox Opal as well. Hopefully Ancient Stirrings gets nailed too so they don't have to do this again in another month.

    I don't think anything changes in Legacy unless the recent tournament data decides Hogaak/Depths needs to take a hit?
    Standard I can not comment about, but I was talking to someone who does play Standard and he did bitch about Field. I asked why Ruin was not used against it, told it rotated out. Great. They had an answer ready made and let it rotate. Oops.

    Modern could see a change, but as I wrote before it won't be Mox. The deck that's getting all the hate is running 7 Moxen and just cutting to 4 and you don't do much. You need to aim for a better target. That said the format is starting to adjust with Burn, Amulet Titan and Jund all ticking up. These decks are well placed against Urza.

    That said, I played Urza in paper this week and while I knew what I was doing, knew the lines, I still took 5 minute turns. That deck is going to eat a ban I bet you. I actually feel like it will be Paradoxical Outcome as that let's Urza go back to the old Sword/Fountry combo and kills the stupid time sink the new build is.

    You could convince me there would be a change but I don't think so just now. Been wrong before. I would not be unhappy with a Twin unban, but alas, I don't know if that will ever happen.

    If there is a change in Legacy I'll be suprised. The card I see most likely to eat it in Legacy (Wrenn) has not been legal for a length of time I think Wizards would be comfortable with before a banning. Legacy moves slowly, only two cards since I came back have been banned quickly and both had delve written on them. Look at what it took to take out Top then ask if anything has hit that level. I doubt it.

    On another topic, remember when the idea of a card getting banned in Standard was a joke. Like, that will never happen, they don't ban shit in Standard? Was only a few years ago but it feels like ancient history now.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  8. #21768

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    The problem with Golos Field in standard is there's literally no way to interact with the deck, and you can't go under it or over the top of it. So it's got a huge win% vs. everything but itself. In turn this fucks up the rest of the metagame because you've got a Tier 0 deck then a bunch of nonsense trying crazy things that don't work.

    Honestly, just in general standard feels terrible now, and I'm sure they're getting a ton of real-time feedback on that through Arena. That's my guess as to why this is happening so fast instead of just waiting two months like usual to "see if the meta shakes out".

    EDIT: also, feeling pretty retroactively good about my hype for Field of the Dead when it was spoiled now.

  9. #21769
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    If Field of Ruin was still legal do you think that would be making a difference?
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  10. #21770
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    The issue is that standard is a format of playing yourself to hellbent and relentlessly jamming whatever you draw. There is no real control or interaction, and even if you had a diet Wasteland, you can't outdraw copies vs a deck with 4 copies and 8 [???] tutors.

    The issue with Field of the Dead is more the sheer amount of token spam it generates. The better card to point out as an answer would have been Rampaging Ferocidon, but even this is a rather dubious answer (I'd rather be on the Field of the Dead side). Tokens are unhealthy, and Field just exposes that truth in a big way - especially in mirrors.

  11. #21771

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Is urza really tearing apart modern? I play a bit of modern, and while I keep hearing about emry and urza I just haven't seen them. In the modern challange I saw 3 tron decks. In the last league I played I saw two. But urza? Haven't seen that in about a month in a paper tournament.

  12. #21772
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Is urza really tearing apart modern? I play a bit of modern, and while I keep hearing about emry and urza I just haven't seen them. In the modern challange I saw 3 tron decks. In the last league I played I saw two. But urza? Haven't seen that in about a month in a paper tournament.
    I'm guessing the issue is a play pattern of Island, Mox Opal, Mox Amber, Emry -> turn 2 Urza, with backup plan = value if no Urza.

  13. #21773

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I've read the updated article and it mentions their digital implementation team. I think they're banning a buggy card from eldraine, or an infinite combo that crashes the game.

  14. #21774

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I'm guessing the issue is a play pattern of Island, Mox Opal, Mox Amber, Emry -> turn 2 Urza, with backup plan = value if no Urza.
    doesn't seem any more broken than a play pattern of Island, spirit guide, metamorphose, rider, neoform.
    (please don't ban rider! It's grisslebrand that is the broken one. Ban him!)

  15. #21775
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    doesn't seem any more broken than a play pattern of Island, spirit guide, metamorphose, rider, neoform.
    (please don't ban rider! It's grisslebrand that is the broken one. Ban him!)
    You guys are missing the common denominator, something that is also the most offensive card in Legacy.

    #BanIsland

  16. #21776

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    #BanIsland

  17. #21777
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    doesn't seem any more broken than a play pattern of Island, spirit guide, metamorphose, rider, neoform.
    (please don't ban rider! It's grisslebrand that is the broken one. Ban him!)
    As I said, the issue is not the power as a Shatterstorm will do massive harm to the deck, the issue is the time it can take to win.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  18. #21778

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    EDIT: also, feeling pretty retroactively good about my hype for Field of the Dead when it was spoiled now.
    Yeah I advised a friend to get some and he bought a load of fields for a few euros and has sold them for 10x what he paid for them.

    As per usual I was too lazy to follow my own advice and didn't buy any.

  19. #21779

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    The issue is that standard is a format of playing yourself to hellbent and relentlessly jamming whatever you draw. There is no real control or interaction, and even if you had a diet Wasteland, you can't outdraw copies vs a deck with 4 copies and 8 [???] tutors.
    That's a very prejudiced view of the format. Standard is ever-changing and archetype balance changes along with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    The issue with Field of the Dead is more the sheer amount of token spam it generates. The better card to point out as an answer would have been Rampaging Ferocidon, but even this is a rather dubious answer (I'd rather be on the Field of the Dead side). Tokens are unhealthy, and Field just exposes that truth in a big way - especially in mirrors.
    While "Landfall - create a 2/2" on a land is clearly powerful, I disagree on it being the card's main issue. The main issue is the current lack of efficient land hate in Standard. The best card against it would have been another Ixalan card: Blood Sun.

  20. #21780
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Is urza really tearing apart modern? I play a bit of modern, and while I keep hearing about emry and urza I just haven't seen them. In the modern challange I saw 3 tron decks. In the last league I played I saw two. But urza? Haven't seen that in about a month in a paper tournament.
    No, it's just the ban mindset WotC started rolling whenever an artifact deck started looking good. I'll admit, I was behind the bans stopping Krark-Clan Ironworks and Eggs (second sunrise version) back in the day, but now no matter what there will be calls for bans. Doesn't matter if every Emry plan dies to a lightning bolt or the deck hard folds to a counterspell that hits creatures (Good luck landing Urza against Logic Knot or Mana Leak), it's just the mindset WotC initiated with the constant waves of bans. Burn is currently the top dog in Modern.

    And again, I'm actually behind most of the bans they've done, but there are deep-seeded impacts of them having done it.

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