View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1049 of 1061 FirstFirst ... 4954994999910391045104610471048104910501051105210531059 ... LastLast
Results 20,961 to 20,980 of 21219

Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #20961

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Imagine a format without Brainstorm and Ponder but Griselbrand and Entomb are still legal, no thanks.
    Yea, seems weird. Iíd almost say that ponder would be easier to ban only cuz brainstorm is such a easy card to misplay. Ponder has a lower skill threshold, but still is immensely good. Also, BS has fringe interactions with Leovold, sylvan library and dack fayden, notion thief.
    I feel like the big legacy tournaments seem to have a pretty ok variety in decks though. Is the B/R list not working?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #20962
    Land Destruction Enthusiast
    Megadeus's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2012
    Location

    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts

    5,214

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Well we just got a creature that is essentially chalice on 0 that also turns off free spells. Unfortunately like shitty design Leovold it's blue and it's not symmetrical
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  3. #20963

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Did u mean Lavinia? Yea actually, that seems pretty oppressive. AND itís a 2-drop. Not sure if itís bannable though. Itís gonna be warping some dnt builds I guess


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #20964
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

    Join Date

    Jan 2013
    Location

    Paris City
    Posts

    480

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Damn. i don't want to buy 2 tundras :)
    Death and taxes!!

    Another Draft Blog

  5. #20965
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,330

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Lavinia looks pretty bad to me, it doesn't do much, at least nothing better than the million already existing hatebears. It just either hampers some decks or is yet another thing Storm kills before going off. Could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect it to be played.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  6. #20966
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    3,591

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Lavinia looks pretty bad to me, it doesn't do much, at least nothing better than the million already existing hatebears. It just either hampers some decks or is yet another thing Storm kills before going off. Could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect it to be played.
    I agree. Damping Sphere does quite a bit of what Lavinia does, but doesn't require UW to do it. I do think it will see some fringe play, probably in Legacy Humans, maybe some other home-brewed UW lists.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  7. #20967
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    7,008

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Lavinia looks pretty bad to me, it doesn't do much, at least nothing better than the million already existing hatebears. It just either hampers some decks or is yet another thing Storm kills before going off. Could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect it to be played.
    I think its better than Meddling Mage if you are on UWx and want to drop a roadblock against combo in order to ensure they can't go off without having to guess the correct to name.
    www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!

    Join us at Facebook!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  8. #20968

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I'm just hoping for some smug thalia player who windmill slams this down before some petals start resolving.

  9. #20969

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    What I find obnoxious about Lavinia is that it only affects opponents. I think a hate card like that should be symmetrical, as Gaddock Teeg was.

  10. #20970

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    I honestly don't know what peoples issue with Depths is. It's a good card, goes in good decks, but it's no Emrakul off a SnT or Sneak Attack.
    How is Depths not on the same Ape-level as SnT?

    A+B = uncounterable, indestructible, flying 20/20

  11. #20971
    Some dipshit of a Moderator.
    Dice_Box's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    A Tabernacle in some random Valley.
    Posts

    4,702

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    How is Depths not on the same Ape-level as SnT?

    A+B = uncounterable, indestructible, flying 20/20
    You have to put it in a heavy focused deck that is easy to interact with and shut down. It doesn't come with 10 to 12 cantrips and counters.

    1+1 combos are not in of themselves bad. Painter is fantastic for example, as is Rip Helm decks. The issue with SnT is the lack of necessary skill in a cookie cutter shell matched with totally busted and broken effects that it can cheat in.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  12. #20972

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You have to put it in a heavy focused deck that is easy to interact with and shut down. It doesn't come with 10 to 12 cantrips and counters.

    1+1 combos are not in of themselves bad. Painter is fantastic for example, as is Rip Helm decks. The issue with SnT is the lack of necessary skill in a cookie cutter shell matched with totally busted and broken effects that it can cheat in.
    Your bias towards non-blue is really amusing. Sneak and Show has to run cantrips because all the good tutors for non-lands are banned. If they were legal it would obviously run it. BG gets two great tutors including Crop at G + instant speed. From my experience both decks assamble A+B just as easy as the other one.

    One gets to play counters the other gets to play discard and protection effects like safekeeper, so its kind of a wash.

    The best way to interact with combo decks is usually Counter+Discard, both do nothing against Depth+Stage. On the contrast you have to keep clunky removal like d. edict in against a combo deck. Also I guess you have not played a deck without wastelands in ages, otherweise you would understand how apish a marit lage on T2 or 3 feels.

    But it is the go to wincon in "your" deck so it obviously is totally fine and all the stuff the evil blue players have is always so much more broken

  13. #20973
    Member
    pettdan's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts

    378

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I think a major difference (which was insinuated) between Depths combo and Show and Tell based decks is that once Emrakul attacks or Griselbrand enters play, the player gains so much advantage that it's almost impossible for the opponent to win from there. As you know, you tend to have to sacrifice your board or get +21'd in card advantage for your opponent. This advantage really encourages the Show and Tell player to play aggressively. I think a Depths player needs to put a little more effort into planning for opponent's responses.. Maybe. Well, discard sure helps with this aspect.
    Currently playing/brewing: Painter, Tezzeret, Bomberman, Planeswalker Nic Fit, Bizarro Stormy, MOST and then some.

  14. #20974
    Some dipshit of a Moderator.
    Dice_Box's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    A Tabernacle in some random Valley.
    Posts

    4,702

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    But it is the go to wincon in "your" deck so it obviously is totally fine and all the stuff the evil blue players have is always so much more broken
    When my kill con let's me draw 14 or wipe your board in a instant and ignore removal you have a point, until then it's nothing alike.

    Something to note, a single flyer will buy you a turn against Depths a decent percent of the time, a single Wasteland will delay them, Lands is built with a secondary effect of intentionally giving you life, meaning sometimes you can just take the hit and move on. These are not issues Grizzlebees and Emmy have to worry about. They tend to be a set and forget effect. The idea that Depths and SnT are even in the same play pen is laughable, even if I am biased.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  15. #20975
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    3,591

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    I think a major difference (which was insinuated) between Depths combo and Show and Tell based decks is that once Emrakul attacks or Griselbrand enters play, the player gains so much advantage that it's almost impossible for the opponent to win from there. As you know, you tend to have to sacrifice your board or get +21'd in card advantage for your opponent. This advantage really encourages the Show and Tell player to play aggressively. I think a Depths player needs to put a little more effort into planning for opponent's responses.. Maybe. Well, discard sure helps with this aspect.
    Good summation. I mean, I look at it this way:

    Griselbrand = 7/7 flying lifelink creature + Necropotence

    Emrakul = 15/15 flying, protection from colored spells + one-sided Armageddon + Wrath of God

    Marit Lage = 20/20 indestructible flyer

    Two of those make it so you not only are favored to win but also strongly shape the game so that you cannot lose, one of those makes you favored to win but doesn't have any inherent way to shape the game other than to hopefully attack for lethal. It's still an unfair combo, nobody contests that, but would you think Tendrils of Agony would be appropriate if it had a built in Silence? We all know the answer to that.

    I am not calling for a ban of Show and Tell, Emrakul, or Griselbrand. Not at all. I do however completely understand where Dice_Box is coming from. Depths is much closer to storm than Show and Tell, and I don't think anyone really has a problem with storm existing as a strategy.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  16. #20976

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Good summation. I mean, I look at it this way:

    Griselbrand = 7/7 flying lifelink creature + Necropotence

    Emrakul = 15/15 flying, protection from colored spells + one-sided Armageddon + Wrath of God

    Marit Lage = 20/20 indestructible flyer

    Two of those make it so you not only are favored to win but also strongly shape the game so that you cannot lose, one of those makes you favored to win but doesn't have any inherent way to shape the game other than to hopefully attack for lethal. It's still an unfair combo, nobody contests that, but would you think Tendrils of Agony would be appropriate if it had a built in Silence? We all know the answer to that.

    I am not calling for a ban of Show and Tell, Emrakul, or Griselbrand. Not at all. I do however completely understand where Dice_Box is coming from. Depths is much closer to storm than Show and Tell, and I don't think anyone really has a problem with storm existing as a strategy.
    I don't have a problem with any of these 3 Strategies. My point was that they are on the same level of accaptable legacy brokenness. S&T and Depths are just more apish than storm even though storm has ape draws too.

    So no, I can't agree that they are on a completly different powerlevel and I think results back that up. I personally find both Storm and S&T easier to interact with than a combo that resolves around not casting any spells because you are just putting 2 lands into play. But maybe thats because I tend to play Ux fair decks.

  17. #20977
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    3,591

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    I don't have a problem with any of these 3 Strategies. My point was that they are on the same level of accaptable legacy brokenness. S&T and Depths are just more apish than storm even though storm has ape draws too.

    So no, I can't agree that they are on a completly different powerlevel and I think results back that up. I personally find both Storm and S&T easier to interact with than a combo that resolves around not casting any spells because you are just putting 2 lands into play. But maybe thats because I tend to play Ux fair decks.
    It all depends on which matchups you concede. Every deck has weaknesses. Ux fair decks may not be favored against Depths but you have great matchups against a large portion of the field. If there was a deck that was favored against literally everything in the format it would be degenerate.

    I don't have a problem with those 3 strategies either, but I think it's clear (my opinion mind you) that both Griselbrand and Emrakul are inherently stronger than Depths.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  18. #20978
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    7,008

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    What I find obnoxious about Lavinia is that it only affects opponents. I think a hate card like that should be symmetrical, as Gaddock Teeg was.
    After the Brainstorm statement and Leovold, I think its outright intended to give Ux aggro-control decks asymmetrical hate to battle opposing aggro-control and combo
    www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!

    Join us at Facebook!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  19. #20979
    Some dipshit of a Moderator.
    Dice_Box's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    A Tabernacle in some random Valley.
    Posts

    4,702

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    I can't agree that they are on a completly different powerlevel
    Ok, so from now on I want my Depths to make a 15/15 that can shrug off removal and eat all your shit or let me draw 14 cards. Sounds fair. Oh wait, no that would be unbalanced as fuck.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  20. #20980

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Ok, so from now on I want my Depths to make a 15/15 that can shrug off removal and eat all your shit or let me draw 14 cards. Sounds fair. Oh wait, no that would be unbalanced as fuck.

    Can't believe what a salty "these-blue-toys-are-so-much-better-than-mine"-crybaby you have become... You used to have a decent view of the format, now it's all anti blue hate.
    Just check the recent MTGO Legacy Challenges. People are doing superfine with their depths-combodecks somehow even though you claim they are so disadvantaged over their evil Griselbrand+Emrakul competitors (actually they are doing better than them, time to question your own skill?)

    But I guess you can always claim these as statistical outliners right?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 4 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 4 guests)