View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #22421

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    What's pretty interesting is how often Delver ends up being the best deck with general purpose cards that were later banned, e.g. Treasure Cruise, W&6, now probably Lurrus. And that doesn't include cards like DRS or Gitaxian Probe.
    Maybe ban the 3/2 flyer aka the lightning bolt with suspend 1 and permanent rebound

  2. #22422

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    What's pretty interesting is how often Delver ends up being the best deck with general purpose cards that were later banned, e.g. Treasure Cruise, W&6, now probably Lurrus. And that doesn't include cards like DRS or Gitaxian Probe.
    i call BS..
    show me a best delver deck that doesn't have that ancestral recall card in it.

  3. #22423

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I can admit when I am wrong, and so I must say that banning delver isn't a terrible idea now that Sprite Dragon is around. That card is a pretty good replacement for Delver. I didn't think it was too good at first, but it seems strong.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  4. #22424

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    If folks want to keep Brain Storm, then Delver (red), Clique (black), TNN (white), Snappy (red) should all be banned. It's crap on a cracker that all of those cards are efficient beaters with utility and no opportunity costs. That they pitch to FoW, or FoN, is just insult to injury.

    /rant

  5. #22425
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    I read that as:

    "We have made a huge mistake, but fuck you all, it's nothing compared to the future mistakes we will make!"

    I read that as:

    "My salary is paid by a company whose board of directors realized that we can increase sales if each new set includes a card that breaks Eternal formats too"

    It sounds like damage control when corporate doesn't give them a choice and he has to try to save face.
    Last edited by FTW; 05-01-2020 at 12:52 PM.

  6. #22426

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Thereís no need to axe a whole mechanic. Banning Lurrus as a companion gets the job done, if it needs doing.

    Iím curious to see how the meta will end up without any intervention, though.

  7. #22427
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Thereís no need to axe a whole mechanic. Banning Lurrus as a companion gets the job done, if it needs doing.

    Iím curious to see how the meta will end up without any intervention, though.
    Or everyone can just quit because it's miserable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  8. #22428
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    This is the first time since I started playing legacy that I'm considering just getting out. If something isn't done about companions I'm going to just start playing commander. At least in that format I could do weird shit and still have fun.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  9. #22429

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    This is the first time since I started playing legacy that I'm considering just getting out. If something isn't done about companions I'm going to just start playing commander. At least in that format I could do weird shit and still have fun.
    Companions or Lurrus?

    And also ... companions, or the rate of change and power creep?

    IMO the biggest power creep lies in the fact that card-advantage-snowball-win-conditions are getting cheaper. The premise of creatures is that, if unanswered, they win the game in some number of attacks. If you answer an enemy creature a turn before you would have died, your situation may be precarious, but in terms of card advantage youíre in the same spot as if youíd answered the creature sooner. Planeswalkers are like better creatures: not only do they win in some number of turns if unanswered, but before that they generate card advantage ó so instead of old Juzam Djinn presenting a 4-turn clock, JTMS often presents a 1-turn clock in the sense that if you canít find an answer before the first +0, the situationís hopeless. The shift from regular old win conditions to win conditions that give card advantage while winning was huge because that changed the effective clock to almost nothing. Now the snowball-card-advantage win conditions are getting cheaper. Oko is 3cc and Dreadhorde Arcanist is 2cc. (And DRS and W6 got banned.) Lurrus is another big step in the same direction ó itís 3cc and itís always in your hand. So yeah, thatís insane, but I wonder if this is really a sharp corner that the format is turning or if Lurrus is an extension of the new philosophy that every threat can be both cheap and a snowball card advantage machine.

    I think the reason why people like Old School Magic is that thereís breathing room ó itís more possible to come back from the brink when ďthe brinkĒ is you being at 2 life because of their Serendib Efreet than when ďthe brinkĒ is you being at -5 card disadvantage because of their 3-mana planeswalker... or Lurrus.

  10. #22430
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Mostly Lurrus, it's this sets Underworld Breach. We need a break from the format constantly shifting. Legacy's appeal to me is a stable format that doesn't need constant tuning; we haven't had that in a long time.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  11. #22431
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Or everyone can just quit because it's miserable.
    This gets more likely with every new set and the next busted card. Underworld Breach, now Lurrus. The paper player base is shrinking, so is it inevitable that magic goes fully digital within the next few years? If so, I'm out.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  12. #22432

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Legacy's appeal to me is a stable format that doesn't need constant tuning; we haven't had that in a long time.
    Stable formats are inherently bad from Wizards' perspective. The problem is that the barrier to entry is quite high, so the solution is increasing the power level as has happened recently, thus selling more product because there are more vectors of demand.

    In other words, the current instability is intentional and will likely continue, barring them dropping support.

  13. #22433

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Stable formats are inherently bad from Wizards' perspective. The problem is that the barrier to entry is quite high, so the solution is increasing the power level as has happened recently, thus selling more product because there are more vectors of demand.

    In other words, the current instability is intentional and will likely continue, barring them dropping support.
    Bingo
    Like warhammer, sigh.

    I guess vintage becomes more of an option?

  14. #22434
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I don't mind a changing format. It's just not changing in a way that I like or think is good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  15. #22435
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Stable formats are inherently bad from Wizards' perspective. The problem is that the barrier to entry is quite high, so the solution is increasing the power level as has happened recently, thus selling more product because there are more vectors of demand.

    In other words, the current instability is intentional and will likely continue, barring them dropping support.
    The main contributors to the high barrier of entry are the mana bases that use duals - and that problem won't go away until they print alternatives that don't have drawbacks that make them worse than the originals (think of Commander-related stuff which is irrelevant for Legacy).

    All they currently do is either adding broken combo pieces or cards that are way too efficient for what they do at their price (W&6, Astrolabe, Oko).

  16. #22436

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by itslarryyo View Post
    Bingo
    Like warhammer, sigh.

    I guess vintage becomes more of an option?
    Vintage is facing the same issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    The main contributors to the high barrier of entry are the mana bases that use duals - and that problem won't go away until they print alternatives that don't have drawbacks that make them worse than the originals (think of Commander-related stuff which is irrelevant for Legacy).

    All they currently do is either adding broken combo pieces or cards that are way too efficient for what they do at their price (W&6, Astrolabe, Oko).
    The issue with obsoleting duals is that doing so violates the Reserved List, and lawyers are expensive (and they will be involved, someone will sue), so it is better for them to simply not do so.

    The solution here is Magic Online, actually, because no Reserved List applies there, but I doubt that would go well with the paper players having Magic Online-exclusive cards.

  17. #22437

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Vintage is facing the same issue.



    The issue with obsoleting duals is that doing so violates the Reserved List, and lawyers are expensive (and they will be involved, someone will sue), so it is better for them to simply not do so.

    The solution here is Magic Online, actually, because no Reserved List applies there, but I doubt that would go well with the paper players having Magic Online-exclusive cards.
    The Lawyers are already paid for, no one is charging Hasbro by the hour.

  18. #22438
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    The Lawyers are already paid for, no one is charging Hasbro by the hour.
    If there will be litigation the in-house and general counsel will hire outside counsel. Doubt itíll be retainer, most litigation isnít since itís hard to figure out the effort and time involved. So yeah - theyíll charge hasbro by the hour.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  19. #22439
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    The issue with obsoleting duals is that doing so violates the Reserved List,
    They could easily slap some Commander-related clause onto them to make them functionally different (as printed), but working the same as normal Duals in Legacy. What they can do and what they won't do are two different pairs of shoes.

    Also, Lurrus is completely FUBAR.

  20. #22440
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post

    Also, Lurrus is completely FUBAR.
    ...but it DIES TO REMOVAL!
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