View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #22581

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Honestly they should ban it, then reprint it in the next set with “can only Yawg Will a thing back if you gained life this turn” - they just really need to get back to responsible card design. I mean, it has lifelink right effing there, how hard is it to put 1 and 1 together. I mean it’s not like they just had to ban a card recently that had largely unconditional recursion - oh wait, nope they just banned Breach.
    Well considering they develop sets a couple years in advance this will probably continue for another year, if War of the Spark was start and they immediately decided to shift gears afterwards.

  2. #22582

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Would Lurrus be fine if you can't run it as companion? Not being able to build your deck around it and not getting it on demand would reduce its power level quite a bit.
    Lurrus would see fringe play without its companion ability. The effect is powerful but only because it's card 8 in your opening 7 and can't be tagged by a discard spell.

  3. #22583

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Would Lurrus be fine if you can't run it as companion? Not being able to build your deck around it and not getting it on demand would reduce its power level quite a bit.
    I think it would be fine. Like 4dogs said, it would probably see some fringe play.

  4. #22584

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour_Asses View Post
    Yeah it's going to be a bit of a relief going back to the moronic "unban SDT/DRS" and "ban Brainstorm" arguments after Lurrus (and hopefully Companion in general) gets canned.
    Except when opinion is united on something like Lurrus, there are usually two strong currents in this thread. The first is discussion of alternative, hypothetical states of Legacy by people both for and against the various ban/unban proposals. The second is name-calling. I’ve long wished that the two could be separated into one thread dedicated to the former purpose, for people who enjoy that kind of thing, and another thread for the name-calling, for people who enjoy that. To be fair, there’s sometimes a grey area, but so often there isn’t.

    “I disagree with your opinion because XYZ” — first thread
    “Your opinion is moronic” — second thread
    “Your opinion is moronic because XYZ” — this is tough to call, but I think the mods could be up to the task. Personally I’d lean towards binning it in the second thread unless XYZ was especially valuable to read.

    I understand that some users find humor in name-calling and that it’s a tradition in this thread (compared to, say, deck discussion threads), but civil discussion of alternative, hypothetical states of Legacy is also a tradition in this thread, and the two don’t have much synergy. People with both types of interest could save a lot of scrolling, were they separated.

    Naturally, users posting in the second thread (the name-calling one) will frequently be aiming their comments at material in the first thread (alternative Legacy discussion) and this split wouldn’t be ideal for them since they would need to include URLs to the posts being ridiculed, or they’d need to copy+paste from the first thread to the second to make a direct quote. However, since users of the second thread would agree that they are smarter than the users of the first thread, this minor technological hurdle shouldn’t be too problematic. In fact, with a separate thread, the name-calling would no longer be so limited in topic and could really take wing.

  5. #22585

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I'm down to unban DRS if it gets some sort of errata to stop it from enabling 4C pile.decks lol

  6. #22586

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sella View Post
    I'm down to unban DRS if it gets some sort of errata to stop it from enabling 4C pile.decks lol
    Real answer is the only way it gets unbanned is if fetchlands are banned.

  7. #22587

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Real answer is the only way it gets unbanned is if fetchlands are banned.
    if BS can't be touched, then sign me up for that. no more perfect mana 4x color piles that just run the best cards from every color.

  8. #22588
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Actually, the companion restriction would make it possible to print a new Deathrite with the limitation that it cannot be run in a deck with islands in it. As a companion it would be way too strong though so we would need a new mechanic with the deck-restriction but without the sideboard-playability. Or.. Maybe foresthome would do..

  9. #22589
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    Actually, the companion restriction would make it possible to print a new Deathrite with the limitation that it cannot be run in a deck with islands in it. As a companion it would be way too strong though so we would need a new mechanic with the deck-restriction but without the sideboard-playability. Or.. Maybe foresthome would do..
    Being able to murder a Bayou with Wasteland and then by proxy the DRS [foresthome mechanic], or with a Blood Moon, or if they cast a Daze (Trop), would be a good way to balance the ramp with a meaningful axis of interaction.

    Edit: here’s the mechanic for those who didn’t play when mechanics on creatures were great - Dandan

  10. #22590
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Someone mentioned BS? Can't say it feels untouchable anymore. Nor does FoW do much. Too much resilience. Too high power levels of cards.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  11. #22591

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Someone mentioned BS? Can't say it feels untouchable anymore. Nor does FoW do much. Too much resilience. Too high power levels of cards.
    First, the 'anymore' kind of suggests that existing cards become more powerful with new sets releasing. In reality the power creep of newer sets has had the opposite effect, which is making previously good cards look bad.

    Second, you should play with a Force of Will deck before you judge it as too powerful for the format. Noone who has played with and cast the card in Legacy before would ever think it's too powerful and should be banned. I used to think FoW was too good as well... when I was 14 and only played Burn and my opponents FoW'd my Fireblasts leaving me butthurt, over 15 years ago.

    It's not even just that pitching a blue card is a massive cost in the majority of matchups, which it very much is, the thing is that without Force of Will they would have to ban
    all the one-card win conditions such as Show and Tell and Natural Order as well as most of the fast mana, such as LED, Dark Ritual, Petal, etc., because FoW is the single reason those decks are beatable for anything that tries to attack with creatures. I'm aware there are Thalia-based decks and other hatebear decks too, but if combo doesn't have to prepare for FoW any more they would easily be able to adapt to them.

  12. #22592

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Izor View Post
    First, the 'anymore' kind of suggests that existing cards become more powerful with new sets releasing. In reality the power creep of newer sets has had the opposite effect, which is making previously good cards look bad.

    ....
    That's true in this particular set of new sets. But that reasoning ('ban a card because new sets will only make it better') has been previously used as a reason for a ban (birthing pod). In fact, at some point in modern, it was even cited as the reason to keep the jedi sword girl banned, we all know now that it was all bollocks since after the banning it became a card in a couple of fringe decks and nothing else.

    (and no, I do not agree fow should be banned)

    Things are so out of control with regards to the relationship between new sets and old formats: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/co..._banniversary/

    tl;dr:
    With tomorrow's B&R announcement presumably hitting 1 or more Ikoria cards, it will be a full year since Wizards has printed a set that hasn't warranted bans in older formats.

    War of the Spark: Karn & Narset in Vintage

    Modern Horizons: Wrenn&Six in Legacy, Hogaak in Modern

    Core 20: Mystic Forge in Vintage

    Eldraine: Oko & Once Upon A Time in Modern

    Theros: Underworld Breach in Legacy

    Ikoria: Lurrus, probably

  13. #22593
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  14. #22594
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well the second one was quite surprising but I'm glad they did it.

  15. #22595

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Yup.

    edit: I do find surprising they didn't just nuke all companions. snowko w/ yorion will now become the obvious deck to play.

    I found this one amusing:
    We are aware of some players' concerns about the frequency at which they encounter decks using companions across several formats. ...
    Ah, so ubiquity as a criteria does apply to certain cards...

  16. #22596
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Really I should have been more verbose.
    What I am saying is that Brainstorm and Force of Will matter ever less, eventually becoming irrelevant, because of the bloody power creep. Even hate is less efficient nowadays, thanks to hybridization. Banning single cards, which is a kind of hate, don't do much for the harmony of the game either. They are simply replaced by something else. Of course, you already know this but I, like all people, can't resist having an opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  17. #22597
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Will the next banned card be a companion, do you think?


    If they release more cards with that mechanic I think that is likely.
    I am also expectng more bans from this set. I figure it just take a little longer to make something broken in modern.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  18. #22598
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Good: Also banning Zirda to prevent it from becoming the next Pokemon deck on the chopping block.

    Bad: Allowing us to return to the hell that's the SnOko meta.

    With Lurrus and Zirda out of the picture, are we going to see more Gyruda and Yorion decks next? I fully expect this shitshow to continue, with 4C Yorion SnOko decks running high numbers of Oko and Uro for maximum cancer.

  19. #22599
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Yorion is going to be everywhere
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    You sir are a ninja of fine quality.

  20. #22600
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmlima View Post
    edit: I do find surprising they didn't just nuke all companions. snowko w/ yorion will now become the obvious deck to play.
    Well, they still want people to buy paper cards.

    I think at some point, the whole mechanic just gets nuked. At least I hope, because Lurrus would be an interesting maindeck card to brew with, but now we can't.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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