View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

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192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #22761
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Well, they could just change the mechanic to only work in EDH, Standard and Historic, then ban what needs to be in those formats. They could also change how it works in those formats to make them less OP as well (lower the starting card number, or something).

    I don't know that they will actually do either, but it seems possible at least.
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  2. #22762
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    They could just add a cost.
    Companion is ": You may play your companion from outside the game. Activate once per game. (You still pay it's cost)"
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  3. #22763

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    They could build a time-machine not make companions.

    I bet they jusy keep banning/restricting

  4. #22764
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by itslarryyo View Post
    I bet they jusy keep banning/restricting
    Well, their own wording doesn't make too much sense then. But, we have to just wait and see what they really meant.
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  5. #22765
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    You will be able to exchange a card from your opener with the companion. Or maybe at any point if they want to protect them.
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  6. #22766
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    https://m.twitch.tv/clip/SpunkyTardyScallionM4xHeh

    Companion rules are going to change, maybe they'll get it right this time
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  7. #22767

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    https://m.twitch.tv/clip/SpunkyTardyScallionM4xHeh

    Companion rules are going to change, maybe they'll get it right this time
    Whilst positive, it's even more upheaval for all formats. There's just no semblance or normality any more, it's a constant throw of the dice with every release and in the months after the release. If this just affected standard I would be kind of ok with it, but it's now pervasive to all formats, there's no way anymore of buying a deck and sticking to it, you need a library to be able to compete competitively or to accept continuous selling and buying.

  8. #22768
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmlima View Post
    Whilst positive, it's even more upheaval for all formats. There's just no semblance or normality any more, it's a constant throw of the dice with every release and in the months after the release. If this just affected standard I would be kind of ok with it, but it's now pervasive to all formats, there's no way anymore of buying a deck and sticking to it, you need a library to be able to compete competitively or to accept continuous selling and buying.
    Well, I disagree. There are/were decks that were "competitive" that were not Companion decks. UG Omni, for example. Were they better than Companion decks? Maybe not, but they are still competitive with them. Even RUG Delver never bothered to run a Companion and it stayed fairly viable, if indeed "clearly" below the Lurrus Delver decks.

    There will always be "continuous buying" since there will always be new cards. As for "continuous selling," well, I am not sure what to say. I honestly can't imagine trying to do this hobby with the notion of having to continually sell everything to buy something else. To me, once I buy it, it is mine and I am not going to sell it. I don't consider cards an investment or anything like that. To me, it is no different than buying food, or any other consumable. Sure, Magic cards are not actually consumed, but in the same sense, I buy them, I use them and I don't look to get my money back.

    I don't know, I realize I am not exactly "in touch with" the majority of Magic players and while this whole Companion debacle is just that, some aspects leave me scratching my head a bit. Then again, I haven't had my coffee this morning yet...
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  9. #22769

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, I disagree. There are/were decks that were "competitive" that were not Companion decks. UG Omni, for example. Were they better than Companion decks? Maybe not, but they are still competitive with them. Even RUG Delver never bothered to run a Companion and it stayed fairly viable, if indeed "clearly" below the Lurrus Delver decks.

    There will always be "continuous buying" since there will always be new cards. As for "continuous selling," well, I am not sure what to say. I honestly can't imagine trying to do this hobby with the notion of having to continually sell everything to buy something else. To me, once I buy it, it is mine and I am not going to sell it. I don't consider cards an investment or anything like that. To me, it is no different than buying food, or any other consumable. Sure, Magic cards are not actually consumed, but in the same sense, I buy them, I use them and I don't look to get my money back.

    I don't know, I realize I am not exactly "in touch with" the majority of Magic players and while this whole Companion debacle is just that, some aspects leave me scratching my head a bit. Then again, I haven't had my coffee this morning yet...
    We are broadly agreeing since I'm not aiming at companion in specific. With regards to buying and selling, I play only online and, my view and mileage varies for everyone, you have to continuously either pump money into it or sell your deck to buy something relevant for the new meta, this is becoming a continuous process now. I never envisaged rental but these days it's really the only viable option as otherwise you are continuously losing money. The other option, you do what I ended up doing, sell the lot and sit it out until things come to a semblance of any stability. It's not about not wanting to change your pet deck, it's about the fact that online things move so fast that, say breach, that things was horrendously pervasive, you either could beat it or, if not, you had maybe 10% chance of getting your entry back in the leagues. So, what to do? Well, join the arms race. Until breach is banned and then something else comes, and so on. It's this process I find fatiguing. Maybe this new world of 'magic the banning' is just not for me anymore.

  10. #22770
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmlima View Post
    We are broadly agreeing since I'm not aiming at companion in specific. With regards to buying and selling, I play only online and, my view and mileage varies for everyone, you have to continuously either pump money into it or sell your deck to buy something relevant for the new meta, this is becoming a continuous process now. I never envisaged rental but these days it's really the only viable option as otherwise you are continuously losing money. The other option, you do what I ended up doing, sell the lot and sit it out until things come to a semblance of any stability. It's not about not wanting to change your pet deck, it's about the fact that online things move so fast that, say breach, that things was horrendously pervasive, you either could beat it or, if not, you had maybe 10% chance of getting your entry back in the leagues. So, what to do? Well, join the arms race. Until breach is banned and then something else comes, and so on. It's this process I find fatiguing. Maybe this new world of 'magic the banning' is just not for me anymore.
    Well, yes, I do think we mostly agree here. I think the key of this is how it reveals how atavistic and antiquated the distribution model really is. This really wouldn't be a "problem" if you, for example, were more readily able to switch decks, by way of staples being more available and at a lower cost. Then, it wouldn't make much of a difference if you switched from RUG Delver to Grixis (for Lurrus) and then right back, post ban.

    I think the notion of Legacy or Vintage (even Modern or Pioneer) as less "churn" based is likely unfounded now. It will churn at some rate now and if you aren't set up to use the churn to your advantage (that is, have a large pool of staples to pull from) you are likely to be facing some burn-out. The days where you could keep, essentially, the same deck for 5 years and be approximately competitive is mostly a pipe-dream, unless your core is URx Delver or UWx Miracles. Aside those, we could be headed nearly anywhere.
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  11. #22771
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Loam/Mox is pretty stable too, but you’d also need to own a Tabernacle. You’re also always going to be fine as either Cavern/Vial (DnT) or SnT (option to change to Sol Land/Chalice not overly expensive you’ve got City). The cost rising argument is harder to make I think with the printing of Vista and Astrolabe. Every so often an expensive card is banned (Wrenn), but those should be pretty easy to see coming. On the flip side Oko (another card that should be banned) has crashed to ~$15 from the $80+ it would be at if still legal in other formats, and Uro will crash once he rotates out (without risk of being banned in legacy, even now you’d only be lighting about $15/copy on fire buying high).

    Legacy isn’t all that punishing even if you bought a deck like Breach; LEDs are easy to trade off, and you could also turn it into DDFT with pretty minimal investment. You’d need to make a decision on U-Sea, but again it’s a stable investment. Another option is getting one more dual and playing 3c pile or two more duals and 4c pile (those LEDs are close to trading 1-for-1 with duals).

    Legacy isn’t going anywhere until Oko is banned; the archetype is full of pilots who can’t win with Hymn/Snapcaster or Counterbalance (vs Oko). Everyone else is doing the same thing (without cantrips) b/c Oko is unmanageable (Lands/Loam/Maverick, etc...), but the decks underneath that $45-60 of Okos are the same thing as they used to be who happen to now own ~2x more blue duals (usually Trop).

    Outside of Sol Land/Chalice, which has no control over whether or not it’s relevant, most decks in legacy are pretty safe from noticeable cost swings. The jank fair decks should have always known that without strategy (just a pile of “good” cards you jam off the top under any circumstance) that they are just worse Czech. The only difference is that they can go around cheese’ing Oko and not always get called on doing the same thing, but worse, b/c Oko is an absurd 1-card combo.

  12. #22772
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Predictions on today's announcement about companions? I think the cleanest answer is ban them in eternal formats, however I think the likely action will be that you must take an automatic 'mulligan' (start the game by only drawing 6 cards instead of 7) if announcing a companion.

    EDIT: misleading text
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  13. #22773

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Predictions on today's announcement about companions? I think the cleanest answer is ban them in eternal formats, however I think the likely action will be that you must take an automatic mulligan if announcing a companion (starting hand of 6 cards.)
    Why do you need a mulligan? Just make the companion announcement the first action of the game (before drawing your hand) and then just draw 6 cards. No need for even more deck handling.

  14. #22774
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmlima View Post
    Why do you need a mulligan? Just make the companion announcement the first action of the game (before drawing your hand) and then just draw 6 cards. No need for even more deck handling.
    That's essentially what I meant. It's a functional 'mulligan', not a technical one. Sorry I didn't explain better.
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  15. #22775

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    That's essentially what I meant. It's a functional 'mulligan', not a technical one. Sorry I didn't explain better.
    Gotcha. I still think they will ban them in everything other than standard.

  16. #22776
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    They could just add a cost.
    Companion is ": You may play your companion from outside the game. Activate once per game. (You still pay it's cost)"
    Good call: https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...d-announcement

    New Companion Rule:

    Once per game, any time you could cast a sorcery (during your main phase when the stack is empty), you can pay 3 generic mana to put your companion from your sideboard into your hand. This is a special action, not an activated ability.
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  17. #22777
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    nvm special action

  18. #22778
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    So I guess the question now is whether this'll torpedo all the cards. Is eight mana for a Yorion worth a Yorion?

    EDIT: And did they kill my beloved Gigan?
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
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    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
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  19. #22779
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Prescient PirateKing 1U
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
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  20. #22780

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    They also nuked my standard and historic decks. Personal grumble time, after pod, twin, eldrazi, drs, breach, pauper post / faeries / drake, now this. I'll start posting my decks so that you guys know what's going to be banned.

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