All B/R update speculation.

[Dice_Box]

How about just banning Duals if they are to pussy to get rid of the reserved list.

They already tried something like that, Modern.

[ParkerLewis]

I initially posted it in the price bitching thread, but...

Legendary Land
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, for each creature that player controls, destroy it unless that player pays 1.

This is a non-functional reprint since, contrary to Tabernacle, the owner of the trigger is the controller of the Land. Like they did with Fork/Reverberate. This is a bit of wishful thinking, but actually why not (in a supplemental set obviously) ?

[Dice_Box]

Because of stack ordering that would be more powerful than Tabernacle.

[Fjaulnir]

Because of stack ordering that would be more powerful than Tabernacle.

How so?


Also; 'Nacle would need to be banned then cuz having 2 of these effects in play at the same time seems even more obnoxious to the format than the stuff most people complain about here

[Finn]

well,

i got wastelanded out of the game by the 4 color deck...

Honestly, you could have stopped there. Only in Legacy is such a manabase even imaginable.

[Lemnear]

Honestly, you could have stopped there. Only in Legacy is such a manabase even imaginable.

This is very true. What offends me on a personal level is that the deck can even dig out of the likes of Bloodmoon or Chalice thanks to how much of a no-brainer DRS + Decay is to solve whatever you encounter in regards to permanent hate towards your 4c pile.

A few years ago I moaned that "deck diversity" in Legacy mainly refered to the question, if you play your delvers in an UR, BUG or UWR shell. From todays perspective of everyone playing BUGx, that seems almost silly.

[Erdvermampfa]

They need to go back in time and ban everything that has had significant impact on the format from late 2011 on till today, except maybe Abrupt Decay.

[Fox]

How about just banning Duals if they are to pussy to get rid of the reserved list.

Actually the opposite: reprint just the duals (or even just the blue duals and Bayou) and ban fetchlands.

@Erdvermampfa or just ban everything new-bordered and make Dominaria onward legacy legal (alongside the old-bordered cards). But if we're engaging in nonsense like this we may as well make legal everything from the planes of Dominaria/Phyrexia, Rath, and Mercadia (and any other old-border set planes that I missed) and rotate 2-3 other new-border planes every so often...

[Crimhead]

They need to go back in time and ban everything that has had significant impact on the format from late 2011 on till today, except maybe Abrupt Decay.

Wait, you want to take my Thespian's Stage away, but keep your maindeck hate for Enchantress?

As if 2011 wasn't fair-deck centric enough! I we must go back to that stale meta at least give me a Frantic Search unban, because I sold my Candles years ago.

[Dice_Box]

How so?

You stack Tabernacle, it let's you do things like see what you get off Bob and then decide if you want him to stick around. In the case of Stax (What came to mind) you get to tap things to effects like Tangle Wire or sac things to Smokestack and not pay for them. Now imagine I get to stack Tabernacle, Smokestack and Tangle Wire.

[JackaBo]

Just a short message for the sake of popping the filter-bubble of this thread:
A lot of people like the format where it's at and the awesome gameplay that comes with cantrips and shamans. End of message.
Now, you guys can go back to suggesting banning anything printed since 2011.

[ParkerLewis]

You stack Tabernacle, it let's you do things like see what you get off Bob and then decide if you want him to stick around. In the case of Stax (What came to mind) you get to tap things to effects like Tangle Wire or sac things to Smokestack and not pay for them. Now imagine I get to stack Tabernacle, Smokestack and Tangle Wire.

Indeed, it would be more powerful in a Stax scenario like you described. Given the current state and viability of Stax, I'd actually see this as a positive effect.

In any way, if Tabernacle is not problematic (and I don't think it has ever been close to even being on anyone's radar), surely Tent wouldn't be. If it turns out to be very situationally better than Tabernacle, well... ain't that even better ?

[kinda]

Just a short message for the sake of popping the filter-bubble of this thread:
A lot of people like the format where it's at and the awesome gameplay that comes with cantrips and shamans. End of message.
Now, you guys can go back to suggesting banning anything printed since 2011.

I hear ya, I think the solution is something like old school except it extends through just before Drs is released. Or a parallel legacy format with a much bigger ban list of the post 2011 cards that rocked the format.

[Crimhead]

A lot of people like the format where it's at and the awesome gameplay that comes with cantrips and shamans. End of message.
Now, you guys can go back to suggesting banning anything printed since 2011.

In 2011 it was pretty hard to play a deck that cared more about hosing creatures than turning them sideways. My favourite cards:

• Tabernacle
• Chasm
• Maze
• Moat
• Humility
• Propaganda
• Abyss
• etc

were pretty much unplayable.
To see such great an glorious cards obsoleted by creature power creep and walkers made me sad in the way the current meta makes other people sad. That was Legacy without its soul.

Count me among the people who like the format where it's at - but not because of cantrips or the shaman.

[Vissah]

Actually the opposite: reprint just the duals (or even just the blue duals and Bayou) and ban fetchlands.

@Erdvermampfa or just ban everything new-bordered and make Dominaria onward legacy legal (alongside the old-bordered cards). But if we're engaging in nonsense like this we may as well make legal everything from the planes of Dominaria/Phyrexia, Rath, and Mercadia (and any other old-border set planes that I missed) and rotate 2-3 other new-border planes every so often...

Or just reprint Duals with a different name :D

[ScottW]

In 2011 it was pretty hard to play a deck that cared more about hosing creatures than turning them sideways. My favourite cards:

• Tabernacle
• Chasm
• Maze
• Moat
• Humility
• Propaganda
• Abyss
• etc

were pretty much unplayable.
To see such great an glorious cards obsoleted by creature power creep and walkers made me sad in the way the current meta makes other people sad. That was Legacy without its soul.

Count me among the people who like the format where it's at - but not because of cantrips or the shaman.

I was thinking this as well. Basically, the power creep with creatures has made tabernacle pretty good and lands is such a powerful deck. Add to this: speculation, hoarding, and limited quantity and you have a wildly expensive card.

Also, count me as someone who basically is happy with the current BR list and would like to see the list reduced rather than anything added. I think the opposition crowd is over represented and/or more vocal in this community, especially here.

[Nielsie]

In 2011 it was pretty hard to play a deck that cared more about hosing creatures than turning them sideways. My favourite cards:

• Tabernacle
• Chasm
• Maze
• Moat
• Humility
• Propaganda
• Abyss
• etc

were pretty much unplayable.

Why do you say these cards were unplayable? Like if anything changed?

These cards as playable as they were 7 years ago. They only see play in really niche decks because cantripping into TNN or Leo is simply a thousand times stronger than going into a defensive stax strategy that requires very specific build arounds. You can't (lukcily) drop a moat or Abyss in your pile deck... Even Tabernacle is as playable as 7 years ago, you know, Maverick was a thing back than because it preyed on RUG.

[Crimhead]

Why do you say these cards were unplayable? Like if anything changed?

Even Tabernacle is as playable as 7 years ago, you know, Maverick was a thing back than because it preyed on RUG.

What changed was the legendary rule which has created a (tier-1) combo hybrid shell for Tabernacle, Maze, and Chasm.
Without that rules change those Lands would be as useless as the other cards on the list.

Not sure what you are saying about Maverick and Thresh. Maverick preyed on Thresh, sure. The problem was that Stax, Enchantress, Lands (the old builds) and Pox didn't really prey on anything ~7 years ago because the fair decks were just to resilient to lose to such a slow control plan. The best "control" decks of the day were quite a bit faster, thanks to the likes of SCM, SFM, Jace, etc.
This was the time that players started to p!aiming that control was dead, if you recall.

Combo was also in a rough spot at that time. Delver and Teeg/Thalia decks were pushing Zoo and Goblins out of the meta, and as such combo decks were losing their prey. Fortunately the printing of Grizlebrand, PiF, and the Cradle upgrade have helped to keep combo relevant.

And where were the Stompy decks? Left in the dust until Eldrazi came along (and until greedier mana bases made Moons more appealing).

The Maverick/Thresh/Stoneblade era was a paradise for fair deck lovers. For the rest of us, Legacy was losing its soul. I would never want Legacy to go back to that. Prices were better, but that's Alli can say for that time.

I was thinking this as well. Basically, the power creep with creatures has made tabernacle pretty good and lands is such a powerful deck.

No, power creep pushed Tabernacle to the brink. So sad it was. Thespians' Stage (and the 2013 rules change) made Tabernacle great again.

TLDR - I like Legacy better now than in 2011/2012. To me it has more "soul", with better combo, stompy, and control decks. I don't expect the malcontents to agree, but something to think about when you take it for granted that the old days were objectively better.

[Tittliewinks22]

Just a short message for the sake of popping the filter-bubble of this thread:
A lot of people like the format where it's at and the awesome gameplay that comes with cantrips and shamans. End of message.
Now, you guys can go back to suggesting banning anything printed since 2011.

A lot of people liked the format where it was with Sensei's Divining Top... and look what happened there.

[Crimhead]

A lot of people liked the format where it was with Sensei's Divining Top... and look what happened there.

What "happened" there was that after a single deck was considered top dog for literally years on end (DTT/TC kerfuffle notwithstanding) the card was still not considered ban worthy on power reasons alone.

I don't think the poster you quoted was trying to imply a prediction regarding the B/R list. Rather just pointing out that not everyone agrees Legacy is a soulless shell of its former glory.