View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1105 of 1178 FirstFirst ... 10560510051055109511011102110311041105110611071108110911151155 ... LastLast
Results 22,081 to 22,100 of 23542

Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #22081

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    The best deck of the format is delver. Delver in any combination is a Tier 1 and aggro decks are the most played right now. If you ban Veil of summer or Oko, you must ban Delver of secrets first.

    Historycally blue creatures don't have a 3/2 flying for
    Delver decks are 18 fo the 40 % of aggro decks (mtgtop8).

  2. #22082
    bruizar
    Guest

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    Absolutely correct.



    You really don't. Plenty of decks are actively pleased to see someone throw a turn for it; the fact that people aren't treating those decks like real decks illustrates what's really wrong with the format.



    Veil of Summer was meant to be used for what the card says on it. Deal.



    You sound like quite the authority on what I should be using my cards to do when you're losing when those cards do what they do when I play them. It's like a fallacy, or something.

    Chalice of the Void continues to be the worst thing for Legacy gameplay since the Reserved List, but nobody seems to care that it actively forces people to play bad cards in order to stand a chance against it. It's like the community won't acknowledge its own blind spots, or something. Don't pretend that a two- or three-drop planeswalker is too good when Dark Ritual or Chalice of the Void is a legal card. It's insulting, and not to me.
    Chalice is a great card. I dont want to play a format where the only viable cards are 1CMC. Imo, they should have never banned Mental Misstep either. Fuck 1CMC hyper efficient spells. We have 20k cards to choose from yet we cant get out of a lightning bolt + brainstorm paradigm.

  3. #22083

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Chalice is a great card. I dont want to play a format where the only viable cards are 1CMC. Imo, they should have never banned Mental Misstep either. Fuck 1CMC hyper efficient spells. We have 20k cards to choose from yet we cant get out of a lightning bolt + brainstorm paradigm.
    Early contender for worst post of 2020

  4. #22084
    Member
    pettdan's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts

    704

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Nah, chalice is one of the gatekeepers of legacy, just like FoW and Wasteland and Blood Moon to a lesser extent. As long as it's useful, the meta stays relatively healthy. Whenever they are not useful [edit: even more so, perhaps, when they are overly useful], it indicates there may be meta problems [this needs to be refined and extrapolated, will leave as is though]. Vast oversimplification just to illustrate the idea..

    Edit: in relation to the next post, and the previous, it doesn't ultimately matter if it's fun when it serves to keep degenerate strategies in check. In my view.

  5. #22085
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Oh boy, the ol' "things I don't like are bad, things I do like are good" argument again. We haven't done this for a thousand pages...
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  6. #22086
    Member

    Join Date

    Apr 2014
    Location

    New Jersey
    Posts

    218

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Wizard View Post
    I like the concept of Veil. However, it is being used offensively, and the card needs to be used defensively. If Veil were used by historically green decks, I would say it is a good fit. Veil has Storm excluding discard spells and including Veil (and perhaps Defense Grid) and that is no good.
    Force of Will is supposed to be used defensively, but players are using Force of Will to remove potential blockers and resolve Show and Tell. Sorry but for the good of the format we need to ban Force of Will.

    Veil isn't used historically by green decks because A) it was just printed last year thus has no history and B) historically green decks suck. When you have to print ridiculous bullshit like Questing Beast to make your color somewhat playable without Brainstorm there is something fundamentally wrong. Every color needs some form of powerful, maindeck playable stack interaction to make the cut.

    Edited for autocorrect messing up some words

  7. #22087
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Watersaw View Post
    Veil isn't used historically by green decks because A) it was just printed last year thus has no history and B) historically green decks suck.
    Yeah, to say that I don't understand an "appeal to historicism" would be an understatement, so I agree completely.

    Consider things just before Alliances came out. Then Force of Will bursts into the meta. Now, people could have, and rightly so, stated "Blue has never been able to counter a spell for zero mana!" That is true, until it is not. The notion that we should be locked into some precedent simply on the merit of precedence makes no sense to me at all. That is utterly conservative to the point of absurdity. There is a place for something like a normative claim, but not precedence as a justification for precedence, that just smacks of circular logic (and belies there is something else likely going on).

    Most decks, looking to protect from countermagic, ran Red, on the back of 'Blasts. Now, there is reason to consider Green and suddenly the sky is falling. Why is/was the Reddening of Blue decks acceptable, but a Greenening bad for the format? I mean, outside the notion of personal opinion. "[Green] [sh]ouldn't do that!" really isn't a case, as far as I can tell.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  8. #22088
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,777

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Watersaw View Post
    When you have to print ridiculous bullshit like Questing Beast to make your color somewhat playable without Brainstorm there is something fundamentally wrong. Every color needs some form of powerful, maindeck playable stack interaction to make the cut.
    How many Questing Beasts made top 8s? Green is still underpowered.

    They need to make a Questing Beast variant with stack interaction that also rewards playing green cards.

    The Last Beast 2GG
    Legendary Creature - Beast
    Flash, Trample, Vigilance.
    Can't be countered except by spells whose mana cost was paid.
    When ~ ETB, target spell, permanent or player gains hexproof until the end of turn.
    While your devotion to green is 6 or greater, ~ has hexproof, deathtouch and indestructible.
    5/5

    Features:
    - High enough power level to justify 2xForest
    - Interacts with the stack, but compatible with Green's role in the color pie
    - Rewards playing other green cards instead of Island
    - Pseudo-unkillable, but not in a boring uninteractive way like TNN
    Last edited by FTW; 01-24-2020 at 11:50 PM.

  9. #22089

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    To me, it’s something along the lines of “green shouldn’t have such a big ability to manipulate the stack”. It’s the big beaters colour. The destroy things colour. But not the stack manipulation colour.
    If it were (g) 1/1 flash you have hexproof, it wouldn’t feel so bad I think.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  10. #22090
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Dec 2013
    Posts

    319

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Chalice is a great card. I dont want to play a format where the only viable cards are 1CMC. Imo, they should have never banned Mental Misstep either. Fuck 1CMC hyper efficient spells. We have 20k cards to choose from yet we cant get out of a lightning bolt + brainstorm paradigm.
    love you, man! ^^

    me and you bro...

  11. #22091
    Member
    KobeBryan's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2011
    Location

    Arcadia, CA
    Posts

    2,225

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Watersaw View Post
    Force of Will is supposed to be used defensively, but players are using Force of Will to remove potential blockers and resolve Show and Tell. Sorry but for the good of the format we need to ban Force of Will.

    Veil isn't used historically by green decks because A) it was just printed last year thus has no history and B) historically green decks suck. When you have to print ridiculous bullshit like Questing Beast to make your color somewhat playable without Brainstorm there is something fundamentally wrong. Every color needs some form of powerful, maindeck playable stack interaction to make the cut.

    Edited for autocorrect messing up some words
    This is the first post i have ever seen where someone wants to ban force of will

    All other posts says force of will holds the format together

  12. #22092
    Member
    KobeBryan's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2011
    Location

    Arcadia, CA
    Posts

    2,225

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by atopebenidorm View Post
    The best deck of the format is delver. Delver in any combination is a Tier 1 and aggro decks are the most played right now. If you ban Veil of summer or Oko, you must ban Delver of secrets first.

    Historycally blue creatures don't have a 3/2 flying for
    Delver decks are 18 fo the 40 % of aggro decks (mtgtop8).
    Luck sack and aggressive flyers were in red

  13. #22093

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    This is the first post i have ever seen where someone wants to ban force of will

    All other posts says force of will holds the format together
    Look up DrJones in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  14. #22094
    Worldslayer
    Rood's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2005
    Location

    MA
    Posts

    1,033

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    1 mana cryptic Command (Veil) as well as orim’s chant basically for G is absolutely bananas and anyone who says it isnt is lying to you lol. Its already the best hate card ever printed for its role...whether Wizards thinks it needs to go is to be seen. But Id say its on top of their watchlist
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  15. #22095

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    To me, it’s something along the lines of “green shouldn’t have such a big ability to manipulate the stack”. It’s the big beaters colour. The destroy things colour. But not the stack manipulation colour.
    If it were (g) 1/1 flash you have hexproof, it wouldn’t feel so bad I think.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    How do you feel about true name and delver? Those are def. The wrong colour

  16. #22096

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rood View Post
    1 mana cryptic Command (Veil) as well as orim’s chant basically for G is absolutely bananas and anyone who says it isnt is lying to you lol. Its already the best hate card ever printed for its role...whether Wizards thinks it needs to go is to be seen. But Id say its on top of their watchlist
    The card is very good but is only good VS Blue & black decks. Is not a Deathrite, Gitaxian or w&6. You always plaw white, red, green and artifact colours if you are wrecked by Veil. I think is good because blue based decks are the most powerful and veil moderate this issue.

  17. #22097

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by atopebenidorm View Post
    The card is very good but is only good VS Blue & black decks. Is not a Deathrite, Gitaxian or w&6. You always plaw white, red, green and artifact colours if you are wrecked by Veil. I think is good because blue based decks are the most powerful and veil moderate this issue.
    I agree with this and bruizar on chalice. These cards are only very good because of the meta. If you want to adapt to them it's not difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  18. #22098
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,777

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by itslarryyo View Post
    How do you feel about true name and delver? Those are def. The wrong colour
    1 mana 3/x? Oh, that must be green right?
    No? Because it's an evasive aggro creature that lucksack triggers from instants & sorceries? Oh, ok, it's red.

    3 mana 3/1 protection from everything. Green? White? Artifact that needs Metalcraft to turn on?

  19. #22099
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,777

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by atopebenidorm View Post
    You always plaw white, red, green and artifact colours if you are wrecked by Veil. I think is good because blue based decks are the most powerful and veil moderate this issue.
    Of course, just play Zoo. Wild Nacatl does so well against Dark Ritual.

  20. #22100
    Member

    Join Date

    Apr 2014
    Location

    New Jersey
    Posts

    218

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    This is the first post i have ever seen where someone wants to ban force of will

    All other posts says force of will holds the format together
    I don't actually want Force banned, I'm trying to point out the absurdity of wanting a card banned because it's not being used "for the correct reason" whatever that means.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 458 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 458 guests)