Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
Yes they are: http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/201...ys-main-event/ .Originally Posted by Lemnear
The linear decks are just consequence of the warped meta, because if you are playing for a longer, more interactive game, there are very few decks that operate on a similar level of consistency, versatility and efficiency that grixis DRS offers. Any deck that isnt a linear combo/ stompy deck that only draws one card a turn is being pushed out of the format.
I thought DRS was soo good, that even the 4c mana base fights through wastelands and blood moons? And now they are the natural predators?
Me: "I don't like apples"
You: "You don't like fruits."
Me: "No, I just don't like apples. I still like pears etc."
You: "Well, they are all fruits, so you don't like fruits."
I think what pettdan meant was that because you want Brainstorm to be a thing, you are now getting very linear strategies that prey on it. You can't have one without the other, or something of that nature.
To continue bad analogies: Legacy is a fruit salad, you want pears in it, but the fruit salads that have pears all come bundled together with apples.
So far this is an outliner and no way a benchmark for the meta by itself. We need to sieve trough the lists and data to see if the DRS+BlueShell players weren't just simply slacking in regards to answers to Lands & Co.
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Jesus Christ why don't you all just change the name of this topic to ban brainstorm.
Pages and pages of dribble about brainstorm and drs.
Fuck, that is a really tempting idea.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
While the conversation in this forum in particular tends to be circular (due almost entirely to transient Magic players with outsized opinions), I feel the the extended conversation is largely warranted. Brainstorm's effect on the format and its peculiar status as having immunity on an island that has booted plenty of cards that Brainstorm caused the banning of, is a strange element of eternal formats. Legacy really is the Brainstorm format, warped inexorably around its presence. There is a lot to discuss about it.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I would argue that it's not "the brainstorm format". It's the "brainstorm and fetchland format". both are oppressive in their own fun and unique way.
Is “oppressive” the word you’re looking for here?
I think so, according to merriam webster:
Definition of oppressive
1 : unreasonably burdensome
2 : tyrannical an oppressive government
3 : overwhelming or depressing to the spirit or senses
1 and 3 seem right.
Oppressive with Brainstorm meaning you either have to play it or be fully prepared to try and beat it. Most people will do one of these two but that doesn't mean it's not oppressive. There are a number of cards still on the banned list that wouldn't require near the effort to beat than brainstorm.
Which cards did Brainstorm cause the banning of? The banned cards I see that are most "associated" with Brainstorm are Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, and Sensei's Divining Top... all of which also got banned in formats that didn't have access to Brainstorm, so it seems silly to claim Brainstorm caused their banning.
Sensei's Top, miracles loses a disproportionate amount of power and consistency from a brainstorm ban (as compared to other blue decks). Card was fine outside of the miracles shell.
Lands, MUD, Stax, and Miracles.
Sensei's Divining Top was banned in Extended. Brainstorm was not legal at the time, I believe. It was also banned in Modern, but admittedly it never proved itself to be an issue as it was banned at the very start (though the same is also true of Skullclamp, of course).
They were banned for different reasons there than for legacy; in legacy, the primary motivator for the ban was its utility in a specific deck, namely miracles, which happens to be a deck that specifically values brainstorm over the other cantrips in ways that other xerox decks do not. Speculative, but without brainstorm there is a real possibility that miracles could never have achieved what it did, thus sparing Top.
Lands, MUD, Stax, and Miracles.
Seth, on this site, possibly this thread, a few years ago I asked the Miracles players to weigh in on an extended conversation about what Miracles would look like without Brainstorm. In a strange twist, everyone seemed to agree. Miracles could not exist without Brainstorm. Interestingly it apparently can exist without Top. And yeah, there was also a good conversation about Treasure Cruise's dependence on Brainstorm just before it got axed and another one months later just before Dig got banned. They have been carving up the format to keep Brainstorm in it for a long time.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
And it is seeming like DRS is next on the list to fall because of brainstorm (as it currently stands now it's probably the most bannable card anyway)
The fact that Treasure Cruise was blatantly overpowered in a Brainstorm-less format would seem to indicate that banning Treasure Cruise was not an attempt to ban around Brainstorm, as the card was clearly quite overpowered even without Brainstorm. Ditto with Dig Through Time. Heck, Modern doesn't even have Ponder or Preordain, and Treasure Cruise was still abusive just off the back of Serum Visions and Thought Scour. So the idea that Treasure Cruise was in any way dependent on Brainstorm, and/or was banned to avoid a Brainstorm ban, appears quite silly. Top is a little more plausible, but it seems there were time concerns involved in it as well, which a Brainstorm ban wouldn't fix.
Mate, you didn't understand the mantra of this threat: "All problems that Legacy ever had, has or will have come down to Brainstorm"
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