All B/R update speculation.

[Noctalor]

It's insane how some of you keep bragging about brainstorm even if it's clear that it wont get banned ever.

You may be disappointed, but if you truly hate brainstorm the "then play another format" solution it's actually the only one, right or not, brainstorm will never get banned, fetches will never get banned, duals will never get banned, get over it...

[Zulabnar]

It's insane how some of you keep bragging about brainstorm even if it's clear that it wont get banned ever.

You may be disappointed, but if you truly hate brainstorm the "then play another format" solution it's actually the only one, right or not, brainstorm will never get banned, fetches will never get banned, duals will never get banned, get over it...

The dinosaurs will slowly die
And I do believe no one will cry
I'm just fucking glad I'm gonna be
There to watch the fall

[kombatkiwi]

If you consider Ponza as a prison deck. I think there is a Mono Green and Mono Black version of the deck.

There is also the one dude who has been having a lot of success with Rhystic Circle tron recently

[Dice_Box]

It's insane how some of you keep bragging about brainstorm even if it's clear that it wont get banned ever.

You may be disappointed, but if you truly hate brainstorm the "then play another format" solution it's actually the only one, right or not, brainstorm will never get banned, fetches will never get banned, duals will never get banned, get over it...

I think the general feel since it got official Pillar status has been to "Get over it". Does not make it right. Does not making voicing ones opinion wrong.

[apple713]

It's insane how some of you keep bragging about brainstorm even if it's clear that it wont get banned ever.

You may be disappointed, but if you truly hate brainstorm the "then play another format" solution it's actually the only one, right or not, brainstorm will never get banned, fetches will never get banned, duals will never get banned, get over it...

I don't hate brainstorm. I just wish it didn't dwarf the diversity of the format. If you remove it from the format blue is forced to do other things than just splash into every deck because it makes the deck more efficient. Other cards become useful and different decks emerge. banning it would be in line with their philosophy of removing something from the format because is warps the format and hinders diversity. I cannot think of a better example than brainstorm. The other pillars of the format dont even remotely have the same effect.

[Lemnear]

If you remove it from the format blue is forced to do other things than just splash into every deck because it makes the deck more efficient. Other cards become useful and different decks emerge.

As if Ponder + Preordain + FoW wouldn't be a total no-brainer for next to every deck in that case.

[Hardcore]

As if Ponder + Preordain + FoW wouldn't be a total no-brainer for next to every deck in that case.

Preordain is a sourcery.

[Aggro_zombies]

Ponder and Preordain being sorceries are issues, yes, but I don't think they reduce the power of blue enough to break open the metagame. Daze and Force both allow tempo decks to operate at sorcery speed without having a Shields Down moment, and tempo decks with blue and black already tap out for discard, so...

Brainstorm is just hands-down the best cantrip available.

Also, 100% agreed on Pauper being great. It's not a real format, though. WotC needs to officially reconcile the legality difference between paper and online first - print Battle Screech and Chainer's Edict at common in a Masters set and then figure out whether they want Hymn, High Tide, and Sinkhole legal in the format (my guess is no, yes, no).

[apple713]

As if Ponder + Preordain + FoW wouldn't be a total no-brainer for next to every deck in that case.

Sure you could start playing preordain but the power loss from brainstorm would really impact decks more than you think.

Some would call force of will a pillar, and in my opinion it is. However, it is an important tool in maintaining balance and irder to the format. If you remove it combo decks run rampant and wotc has to ban all the combos in the format. You end up with something that looks like modern...no one wants that.

Using preordain if brainstorm gets removed is a no brainer because preordain is just the next best option. The difficult choice comes when you have to answer the question, are preordain and ponder good enough for me to not consider options in other colors?

Preordain is a sourcery.

Ponder and preordain are sorceries AND they are not nearly as good as brainstorm.

Ponder and Preordain being sorceries are issues, yes, but I don't think they reduce the power of blue enough to break open the metagame. Daze and Force both allow tempo decks to operate at sorcery speed without having a Shields Down moment, and tempo decks with blue and black already tap out for discard, so...

Brainstorm is just hands-down the best cantrip available.

Legacy is a format about being the most efficient as possible with your cards and choices. Many games are won by small margins. If you force decks that play blue to play with preordain and ponder instead of brainstorm and ponder the value of adding blue to your deck in general drops. Maybe now it is not as efficient to play with blue as opposed to another color.

Force of will requires 16-20 blue cards to reliably be cast in deck. If your blue card options are now not as good it becomes less attractive to include.

Think of how many decks are built and come into fruition because 1 new card is printed? I'm not talking about a a card that allows for a new combo or something but rather a card that increases consistency enough for a deck to be successful.

I would challenge people that believe the impact of what i'm saying to simply take a deck they play with brainstorm and replace them with preordain and play 10 games. Note the inefficiencies and report back.

[Lemnear]

Who cares if Ponder & Preordain are worse than Brainstorm as long as they are better than Harmonize and pitch to FoW?

[Mr. Safety]

Preordain is a sourcery.

If preordain is a sour-cery, is brainstorm a shitstant?

[bruizar]

Brainstorm was never the problem. The problem is fetchland.

You axe fetch land, and
1) duals return to normal prices
2) other lands stand a chance of being playable
3) brainstorm loses its grip on the format

The free shuffle effect is what makes Brainstorm busted, not the effect itself.

If Brainstorm does get the axe, I can't wait for Miracles players to have to run shit like Conch Horn. I mean, they're already running Soothsaying in the absence of Sensei's Divining Top :D

[Fox]

I feel like Scroll Rack is better than Conch Horn by many degrees of magnitude....which is why a Conch Horn buyout is unavoidable at this point.

[Megadeus]

Brainstorm was never the problem. The problem is fetchland.

You axe fetch land, and
1) duals return to normal prices
2) other lands stand a chance of being playable
3) brainstorm loses its grip on the format

The free shuffle effect is what makes Brainstorm busted, not the effect itself.

If Brainstorm does get the axe, I can't wait for Miracles players to have to run shit like Conch Horn. I mean, they're already running Soothsaying in the absence of Sensei's Divining Top :D

Very very rarely have I seen soothsaying in a deck. And axing fetches just makes duals more necessary. Now instead of 2-3 of a dual I need 4

[Secretly.A.Bee]

(...)And axing fetches just makes duals more necessary. Now instead of 2-3 of a dual I need 4

This is almost right - Except when you remove the fetchland's need of a basic land type, your card pool opens up to many different "dual land" cycles that regain usefulness because they are no longer painfully outclassed. Maybe painland days are gone, but there are fastlands and others, as well as new "city of brass"-esque lands with several different takes, none of which see a significant amount of play in the format at the moment. But maybe they would...

[Lemnear]

Brainstorm was never the problem. The problem is fetchland.

Of course they are. You however wont get WotC and the playerbase behind that idea because they would all hyperbole into "OMG! EVERY DECK NOW NEEDS 20 DUALS! 8000$ decks!"

Without Fetches you could unban anything from Deathrite over Divining Top to Treasure Cruise without any negative impact while drastically nerfing blue altogether.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Yeah, WOTC should ban fetchlands in a format with Wasteland. They need to get right on that.

[tsabo_tavoc]

It's insane how some of you keep bragging about brainstorm even if it's clear that it wont get banned ever.

You may be disappointed, but if you truly hate brainstorm the "then play another format" solution it's actually the only one, right or not, brainstorm will never get banned, fetches will never get banned, duals will never get banned, get over it...

Like many others, I don't hate Brainstorm. I love Brainstorm, and own ~30 copies to play it across several Legacy decks. You can also tell I love playing blue. The last card I own as many that is not a basic land? Mental Misstep I enjoy playing with Brainstorm, and I also enjoyed playing Mental Misstep. Why do I advocate a ban for since a decade? So that many other cards I also enjoy playing won't be the victims, including DRS and Probe. I am afraid we are seeing a scenario as Vintage banning 3sphere, Lodestone Golem, and Thorn of Amethyst. One day, it will touch your pet card, don't weep and kiss Brainstorm.

[Megadeus]

This is almost right - Except when you remove the fetchland's need of a basic land type, your card pool opens up to many different "dual land" cycles that regain usefulness because they are no longer painfully outclassed. Maybe painland days are gone, but there are fastlands and others, as well as new "city of brass"-esque lands with several different takes, none of which see a significant amount of play in the format at the moment. But maybe they would...

I understand what you're saying, but duals are still the best choice 99% of the time and thus before you play any number of Seachrome Coast, Glacial Fortress, or Mystic Gate, you are already maxed out on Tundra

[CutthroatCasual]

Because the average legacy players don't react like the snobbish miracles cult does...

Or the Miracles players are smart enough to see past the BS rationale that WotC gave for the Top ban and people have been saying DRS is broke since even before the Top ban.

In other words, people aren't salty about DRS because they know it deserves a ban, whereas people are salty about Top because it wasn't the card that needed a ban from that deck.