View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

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  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #7901
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    We're big boys so let us play with our toys. Let Modern be the format where the everything is carefully controlled.

    Is Survival too good? Maybe, maybe not. The only way to know for sure is to unban it at see what happens. I put it in the same category as Time Spiral or Entomb powerful card, would spawn a new archetype, but not anymore broken then what the format already allows. Legacy has evolved a ton in the last few years . My gut tells me Survival would be alright. If it's not then just ban it again in 3-6 months. I for one would welcome the experiment.

    Legacy is not a PT or PTQ format we get like three GP's a year so just let us do our thing.
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  2. #7902
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Exactly. At worst, the card becomes a problem and it gets banned again. If nothing else, at least give it a shot. It isn't like it messes up the PT or anything. And I doubt that it would hurt attendance, which in the end is what WOTC really cares about right?
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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  3. #7903

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    They can't just unban and ban a card again a few months later..
    Well theoretically they could but can you imagine the whine and hate they'd recieve if they unban Survial, it shoots up to I-don't-know-how-much and then ban it again a couple weeks later?
    Dear god no, from a buisness standpoint thats absolute nonsense.

    Similiar to a bank which removes costs for a normal account and later wants to add it again because they realized it was a mistake and they can't manage it.. Tons of customer will switch their account to another bank even if they paid in the past because they had some free months and got used to it.

  4. #7904

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    They can't just unban and ban a card again a few months later..
    Well theoretically they could but can you imagine the whine and hate they'd recieve if they unban Survial, it shoots up to I-don't-know-how-much and then ban it again a couple weeks later?
    Dear god no, from a buisness standpoint thats absolute nonsense.

    Similiar to a bank which removes costs for a normal account and later wants to add it again because they realized it was a mistake and they can't manage it.. Tons of customer will switch their account to another bank even if they paid in the past because they had some free months and got used to it.
    I agree with the whining, but it doesn't have a plethora to do with a business standpoint - WOTC makes little/no money on the secondary market.
    “There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
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  5. #7905
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    You can't Unban a card and then reban it without at lest having the "Oh but the meta did not have time to adapt" crew sing to the heavens about how it should have had more time and was not broken but would have been ok if only we had more time.

    Also, the comment about RIP being the answer. Not everyone plays white. Saying X single card is the answer is foolish, what happens when you don't have access to that card?
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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  6. #7906
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You can't Unban a card and then reban it without at lest having the "Oh but the meta did not have time to adapt" crew sing to the heavens about how it should have had more time and was not broken but would have been ok if only we had more time.

    Also, the comment about RIP being the answer. Not everyone plays white. Saying X single card is the answer is foolish, what happens when you don't have access to that card?
    Phyrexian Revoker? #IDon'tPlayLandsThough
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    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  7. #7907
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Phyrexian Revoker? #IDon'tPlayLandsThough
    Yeah and Needle was available during Survivals second era too ... Did it help? No, because Survivaldecks are not dependant on the enchantment but your opponent HAS TO ANSWER IT regardless
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
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    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  8. #7908

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    The answers have gotten very good and universal though. Surgical, grafdiggers, and revoker are all colorless. Pithing needle is still a great card. RIP is crazy good against it. Deathrite really does work in tuning down the power level. Even something like batterskull really inhibits them to an extent if they can't constantly recur vines or the reclamation sage gets countered. Aslo, reclamation sage is now a thing to kill enchantments. And you know what would be a fantastic tool to fight against the insanity of a white wrath? Being able to recur your creatures again and again.

    Survival is not only 100% safe, it would improve the metagame by giving miracles what should be a unfavorable matchup, therefore lessening the raw strength of the 4 terminus plan on other green based aggro decks.

  9. #7909
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Reclamation Sage would be half the problem in a Survival format. "Revoker on the stack? Ok, just one sec let me grab Sage. RIP? Same. Oh I did not draw Survival? Well lucky I still have a good working midrange deck. You just don't win.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  10. #7910
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    RIP? Same. Oh I did not draw Survival? Well lucky I still have a good working midrange deck
    Hand: Bayou, Fetch, Fetch, Deathrite Shaman, Squee, Griselbrand, Genesis.


    Such deck, very good working midrange, wow.
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  11. #7911
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Hand: Bayou, Fetch, Fetch, Deathrite Shaman, Squee, Griselbrand, Genesis. Such deck, very good working midrange, wow.
    Dat turn 2 squee, OP

    There is no logical way to defend Survival's ban as long as S&T is legal.

  12. #7912
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    So you want to start throwing hands around. Here pick any 7 cards and let me totally ignore you, because we all get good hands and bad ones. Shit happens.

    If built right, a Survival deck should not be dead without the card and should be explosive with it. Much like Pod is. You don't need Pod, but when you get it, you get the ball rolling hella fast.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  13. #7913
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Hand: Bayou, Fetch, Fetch, Deathrite Shaman, Squee, Griselbrand, Genesis.


    Such deck, very good working midrange, wow.
    and we are now sculpting worst case scenarios with cards no one seriously suggestioned like Genesis? Wow.

    Shall we continue with RUG Delver and a hand without green mana but werbears to make a point of how bad the concept of tempo is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  14. #7914
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    That's not even close to the worst case scenario.

    Survival already has lots of dead cards to draw; jamming in a bunch of extra situational cards like people are suggesting here (the Griselbrand/Retainer package etc.) would increase the tendency to get shit hands.

    RGSA was built to work without Survival but that was its gimmick, it's dishonest to pretend that all these lists doing powerful things without Survival would be omg still sooooo good if they didn't stick the card.
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  15. #7915
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    That's not even close to the worst case scenario.

    Survival already has lots of dead cards to draw; jamming in a bunch of extra situational cards like people are suggesting here (the Griselbrand/Retainer package etc.) would increase the tendency to get shit hands.

    RGSA was built to work without Survival but that was its gimmick, it's dishonest to pretend that all these lists doing powerful things without Survival would be omg still sooooo good if they didn't stick the card.
    For my taste this sounds like claiming that Tinker and Oath of Druids are fine because you can draw shitty hands with Blightsteel Colossus or Griselbrand too. I'm sure that the potential 1-2 dead draws are outweight by the advantage if you can assemble Survival + random creature. :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  16. #7916
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Then compare Survival + random creatures to Show and Tell or Oath or whatever.

    I think it usually comes off pretty fair in those comparisons, due to the sheer amount of mana it takes to set up any of these combos. Survival decks have historically been more durdly/resilient than aggressively combotastic.
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  17. #7917
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Then compare Survival + random creatures to Show and Tell or Oath or whatever.

    I think it usually comes off pretty fair in those comparisons, due to the sheer amount of mana it takes to set up any of these combos. Survival decks have historically been more durdly/resilient than aggressively combotastic.
    That is correct. My point however was that Survival is not only a combo enabler like S&T but much more flexible in it's use like creating cardadvantage or as a repeatable Tutor. I don't think it deserves a ban for the pure axis of enabling a combo but for the versatility it provides for every deck running green and trying to win via the combat step. I guess we can agree that not running Survival within a green shell with plenty of creatures would barely make sense and that it would limit the diversity of Legacy midrange even more than it already is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  18. #7918
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I don't see what's changed in the time since Survival was banned that would make decks like Thresh, Zoo and Elves want to run it when they didn't before.

    It would displace probably a very small range of decks (probably just Jund and Shardless Bug) and replace them with a variety of interesting, more unique and engaging decks instead.
    For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
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  19. #7919
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I don't think that Survival will be allowed anymore, it's a repeatable tutor (although a conditional one), and WotC dislike such cards. They'd rather print some legendary enchantment creature planeswalker flying trample herptouch 13/18 protection from you transform card.

  20. #7920
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    That's not even close to the worst case scenario.

    Survival already has lots of dead cards to draw; jamming in a bunch of extra situational cards like people are suggesting here (the Griselbrand/Retainer package etc.) would increase the tendency to get shit hands.

    RGSA was built to work without Survival but that was its gimmick, it's dishonest to pretend that all these lists doing powerful things without Survival would be omg still sooooo good if they didn't stick the card.
    This. Everyone is saying it's so good because it's versatile. Sure. It's a good deck. And it would probably be T1 in legacy. Is that bad? It didn't seem to absolutely ruin the format before, and now with the plethora of answers readily available to fight it off it seems fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

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