View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #20481
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    And we did. Then they banned top.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  2. #20482

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    So you agree that cantrips are not actually the problem for non-blue midrange?
    I think you are misunderstading.

    Is a combination of problems.

    Blue has good creature and removal (tnn jace strix delver Vendillion)
    Good counters (only blue has)
    Good cantrips


    If hasbro does not print better cards against blue bullets format is blue, or high variancy hate decks.

    Now You have no strategy that does not relate on blue except Hate strategy.

    You have aggro U based deck
    You have tempo U based deck (team america, Rug, canadian)
    You have control U based deck (Miracle grixis)
    You have combo U based deck (SnS, omniscence, UB reanimator)

    You could also play Aggro Loam prison deck 4 color . Very happy to blue Back to Basic, or Red Price of progress

    YOu can play combo like Dark Depths or Reanimator without blue or lands and try the variance effect.


    I guess that or Hasbro reduce the blue power or empowered the other colors (green over others) printing something that has bad matching with blue, even with destroy effect if You control island.

    I know that lots of player love to reduce variancy with Sylvan or other. But the difference is in the pool of cards and sinergy with others.

    Brainstorm + Delver is not the same that Sylvan + XXX because the power level of green cards is low compared to blue

    Just take creatures, Tarmogoyf was a king, then TNN comes and Tarmo is gone.
    Nimble moongose was a must, now is delver

  3. #20483
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    And we did. Then they banned top.
    Ouch...for some reason I forgot about that, lol. One of the many sacrificial lambs unto the Blue Gods of Legacy.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  4. #20484
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Of course top banning wast the stupidest thing they could ever have done to legacy. We have a format in which only blue decks are cometitive because of the consistency provided by cantrips? Well, let's ban the only good card non blue decks can use to emulate the effect of cantrips. What a joke.

  5. #20485
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    One of the many sacrificial lambs unto the Blue Gods of Legacy.
    Blasphemer! there is only one true blue god = BS

  6. #20486

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    Blasphemer! there is only one true blue god = BS
    Brainstorm, God of Selection.
    Force of Will, God of Restriction.
    Truly-Named, God of Destruction.
    Delver, God of Tempo.

  7. #20487
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Brainstorm, God of Selection.
    Force of Will, God of Restriction.
    Truly-Named, God of Destruction.
    Delver, God of Tempo.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  8. #20488

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulabnar View Post
    I think you are misunderstading.

    Is a combination of problems.

    Blue has good creature and removal (tnn jace strix delver Vendillion)
    Good counters (only blue has)
    Good cantrips
    I am not misunderstanding anything, I said not cantrips are the problem as is claimed in this threat 24/7 (at least in the psot I was refering to). I agree the the trio of Strix, Snap and TNN is what pushes blue decks over the top. Delver is actually fine in this context imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulabnar View Post

    If hasbro does not print better cards against blue bullets format is blue, or high variancy hate decks.

    Now You have no strategy that does not relate on blue except Hate strategy.
    1. Hasbro just pulls money out of WOtC, WotC prints cards.

    2. Omg we absolutly don't need more hate cards... How much more hate than Chalice, Choke, Bloodmoon, etc. do you need? I am glad that as poor as people working at wotc come across at times they still seem to be much more intelligent than the shouting mob you find in threats like these. Hate piece make for stupid unfun gameplay, which is why I would doubt youl will see alot of new stuff. Even though something as obnoxious as Prelate was printed recently in COnspiracy 2 aka DnT: the set

    3. So any fast combo deck qualifies as "hate strategy"? That's a funny definition and pretty much bs imo.[quote/]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulabnar View Post
    You have aggro U based deck
    You have tempo U based deck (team america, Rug, canadian)
    You have control U based deck (Miracle grixis)
    You have combo U based deck (SnS, omniscence, UB reanimator)

    You could also play Aggro Loam prison deck 4 color . Very happy to blue Back to Basic, or Red Price of progress

    YOu can play combo like Dark Depths or Reanimator without blue or lands and try the variance effect.
    1. For anybody that understands how magic works, its clear that one mana cantrips will slide into most decks because they are the most versatile. The format for bad blue cantrips is modern (red and green have the best filtering there)

    2. Wow so you dismiss a totally competitive deck because of two hatecards? How about you try to find a way to beat those cards... how does anybody play blue against chlaice and choke?

    3. In my opinion BG Depths, BR Reanimator and Lands are super consistenst. The only thing more broken then cantrips are tutors and all of those decks have them. BR is actually running the best imaginable cantrip for them in Looting. How are dekcs with so much redundency and tutors worse than blue?


    Quote Originally Posted by Zulabnar View Post
    I guess that or Hasbro reduce the blue power or empowered the other colors (green over others) printing something that has bad matching with blue, even with destroy effect if You control island.

    I know that lots of player love to reduce variancy with Sylvan or other. But the difference is in the pool of cards and sinergy with others.

    Brainstorm + Delver is not the same that Sylvan + XXX because the power level of green cards is low compared to blue

    Just take creatures, Tarmogoyf was a king, then TNN comes and Tarmo is gone.
    Nimble moongose was a must, now is delver
    Tarmo is dead because of Angler, push and strix. It's a 2cmc creature that does nothing on etb, do you actually belive the stuff you write yourself?

    Goose is dead because of angler and strix.

  9. #20489

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulabnar View Post
    Just take creatures, Tarmogoyf was a king, then TNN comes and Tarmo is gone.
    The primary reason Tarmogoyf has left the format isn't True-Name Nemesis; it's Fatal Push. Before the only playable removal that could take it out for less than it costs was Dismember and Swords to Plowshares, both of which have a disadvantage and the former of which isn't played much. Then Fatal Push came along and not only was a drawback-less kill spell against Tarmogoyf, it was in Black so non-White Black decks could run it. Even worse for Tarmogoyf, it has anti-synergy with Tasigur and Gurmag Angler, which are stellar against Fatal Push.

    This same effect is in Modern, in fact; Tarmogoyf sees substantially less play in that format than it used to, and there is no True-Name Nemesis in that format. I'm not saying True-Name Nemesis didn't also hurt Tarmogoyf, it did, but nowhere near as much as Fatal Push and the Delve cards did (which, incidentally, see considerably more play than Tarmogoyf).

    Nimble moongose was a must, now is delver
    The primary deck Nimble Mongoose saw play in was Canadian Threshold (now perhaps better known as RUG Delver), a deck that was made into a major staple of the format exactly because of Delver of Secrets. Sure, RUG Delver isn't that much of a thing now, but it sure as heck wasn't Delver of Secrets that pushed Nimble Mongoose out when Delver of Secrets was basically the reason Nimble Mongoose was a mainstay.

    Wild Nacatl would've made more sense to appeal to here.

  10. #20490
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    Omg we absolutly don't need more hate cards.
    This is wrong. We need more. There is not enough until Stax is a top tier deck and I am the only one having fun.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  11. #20491
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Hate cards are fine as long as they are narrow.
    -rob

  12. #20492

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    This is wrong. We need more. There is not enough until Stax is a top tier deck and I am the only one having fun.
    +1...
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  13. #20493
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    This is wrong. We need more. There is not enough until Stax is a top tier deck and I am the only one having fun.
    Fun is overrated, misery and suffering is where it's at.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I still have a strong suspicion that if 'Thalia, Heretic Cathar' had been named 'Frank, Heretic Cathar', people would be a lot more skeptical of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goin Aggro View Post
    Ugh, there he goes again, talking about the girlfriend. We get it dude.

  14. #20494

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    This is wrong. We need more. There is not enough until Stax is a top tier deck and I am the only one having fun.
    I see why you don't like Lands position in the metagame an therefor legacy as a whole anymore

  15. #20495

    Re: All B/R update speculation.


  16. #20496

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I am personally convinced tinker is a good unban while memory jar is banned. All you get is card answred by swords to plownshares/edict except for inkwell leviathan which is a three turn kill slow
    compared to NO=> progenitus. In a format of 20/20 flying for 2cc tinker is not that good. There is no good artifact to abuse with. Yeah sundering titan can be problematic... Maybe

  17. #20497

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    I am personally convinced tinker is a good unban while memory jar is banned. All you get is card answred by swords to plownshares/edict except for inkwell leviathan which is a three turn kill slow
    compared to NO=> progenitus. In a format of 20/20 flying for 2cc tinker is not that good. There is no good artifact to abuse with. Yeah sundering titan can be problematic... Maybe
    Helm of obedience .
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  18. #20498

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    As with all tutors they are just as strong as their targets. I also think Tinker is fine in legacy. Time for unbans IMO.

  19. #20499

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Unban tinker, becasue we definetly need more degenerate combos.. yea.. sure... Show and smell the Griselchimp is enough.. (presonally I'd say too much).

  20. #20500

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miagi View Post
    Unban tinker, becasue we definetly need more degenerate combos.. yea.. sure... Show and smell the Griselchimp is enough.. (presonally I'd say too much).
    Combo decks are not really performaning well. I dont see any problem introdcing more combo enablers.

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