All B/R update speculation.

[KobeBryan]

WOTC just likes to target combo decks. Its always combo getting the nerf instead of having players find a way out.

Instead they rather push abusive cards like miracles that may be cast on the opponent's turn.

[Fox]

WOTC just likes to target combo decks. Its always combo getting the nerf instead of having players find a way out.

Instead they rather push abusive cards like miracles that may be cast on the opponent's turn.

There are positive aspects Breach brought to the format, but no matter how much you liked the deck (or how it existing helped your deck), at the end of the day it's basically the same thing as Oath of Druids. You just cast this 2 mana enchantment that bails you out of a completely hopeless scenario by itself, from hellbent. This was a good ban.

If the grindy 2-for-1 nonsense ever gets intolerable you can unleash the bullsh*t (like Breach, Oath, DTT OmniTell) just to massacre them, and it's kinda safe insofar as these cards all die to SB hate. You let these cards run amok though and all the fair decks will start dropping like flies. We're kinda the last format where you can play that style of dude magic against pretty insane effects and combos, and that's something that needs to be valued/preserved (increased diversity).

The only abusive card in miracles is Counterbalance, which is coming back the moment Oko gets axed. You could also argue that SCM is abusive (and it truly is, most evident when played with Hymn), but as long as we're leaving Goyf legal it's a necessary evil. A 1cmc wrath is a perfectly reasonable card as long as Vial is legal. Entreat merely has ethical issues if endlessly floated by a slow deck in a decisively winning position [the intention of prolonging a game to avoid giving opponent time to win the next game].

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Red yawgs will is definitely comparable to Oath of Druids

[FTW]

For anyone who thought Breach didn't need to get banned, the latest Legacy Challenge Top 32:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...llrad_st_place

There are a whopping 11 Jeskai Breach decks in the top 32... over 1/3
4th, 5th, 7th, 11th, 12th, 15th, 17th, 19th, 24th, 26th, 28th

The 1st place Maverick list packed over TWENTY anti-Breach cards in the 75, basically planning to face and roll Breach decks all day.
The 3rd place Turbo Depths list had 8 maindeck discard spells, Crop Rotation, and 12 cards to board in vs Breach.
The 8th place Thalia stompy list packed 22 hate cards (but got knocked out by a non-Breach deck).

The week before there were 6 Breach decks in the top 16, including 1st, 2nd and 5th. This week players did adapt... but the MTGO format devolved into Breach, anti-Breach, and fair blue decks. A lot of these decks are boarding in 10+ cards vs Breach, their entire sideboard is for the matchup.

[jmlima]

For anyone who thought Breach didn't need to get banned, the latest Legacy Challenge Top 32:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...llrad_st_place

There are a whopping 11 Jeskai Breach decks in the top 32... over 1/3
4th, 5th, 7th, 11th, 12th, 15th, 17th, 19th, 24th, 26th, 28th

The 1st place Maverick list packed over TWENTY anti-Breach cards in the 75, basically planning to face and roll Breach decks all day.
The 3rd place Turbo Depths list had 8 maindeck discard spells, Crop Rotation, and 12 cards to board in vs Breach.
The 8th place Thalia stompy list packed 22 hate cards (but got knocked out by a non-Breach deck).

The week before there were 6 Breach decks in the top 16, including 1st, 2nd and 5th. This week players did adapt... but the MTGO format devolved into Breach, anti-Breach, and fair blue decks. A lot of these decks are boarding in 10+ cards vs Breach, their entire sideboard is for the matchup.

That's also a sign of a larger problem for wotc. In MTGO it's dead easy to change to the newest most broken deck. As soon as something broken is identified, this will be the result, every single time. This justifies their decision to ban in a much more proactive way, but will also cast more and more doubt into the viability of a model where paper follows digital. How many people did overnight bought a set of paper leds to build breach vs how many changed their card rental subscription to a breach deck? I wouldn't touch paper mtg with a long pole. With the intense release schedule and the number of broken cards per set nothing is safe for any amount of time.

[Fox]

Pretty sure they will be just fine with LED purchase. It has a stable price and goes in a number of competitive decks.

[jmlima]

Pretty sure they will be just fine with LED purchase. It has a stable price and goes in a number of competitive decks.

That's not the point, the point was it's dead easy to change your deck subscription, a completely different story to fork out hundreds just play 'today's new thing until it's banned'.

[H]

That's also a sign of a larger problem for wotc. In MTGO it's dead easy to change to the newest most broken deck. As soon as something broken is identified, this will be the result, every single time. This justifies their decision to ban in a much more proactive way, but will also cast more and more doubt into the viability of a model where paper follows digital. How many people did overnight bought a set of paper leds to build breach vs how many changed their card rental subscription to a breach deck? I wouldn't touch paper mtg with a long pole. With the intense release schedule and the number of broken cards per set nothing is safe for any amount of time.

Of course digital has upsides versus paper, but this is nothing new. In reality, I don't think this is a problem for Wizards at all. In fact, it is exactly what they "want" to a certain extent, because they have essentially let the ship sail on Legacy and Vintage, because of the RL. Since Digital doesn't have to worry about that, since Digital lets disparate groups of people come together with relative ease, since card availability is less (stressing less, as opposed to not at all) of an issue since there is no printing, there is no real distribution.

Paper Magic, especially paper Eternal is a further luxury product of a luxury product. Yes, it's anachronistic, atavistic, and that is a large portion of its appeal most probably. I'd love to be able to pop on my computer and play some Legacy or Vintage at my convenience, but I would not trade it for actually owning the paper product that I do. Each one has some benefit, but not necessarily in equal measure.

[FTW]

That's not the point, the point was it's dead easy to change your deck subscription, a completely different story to fork out hundreds just play 'today's new thing until it's banned'.

Most paper Legacy players who enjoy combo decks would already have LEDs from long ago. LED is a pillar for Legacy combo, it's central to many decks, not just a Breach combo piece.

If you ever played ANT and also had Xerox, you already owned most of the deck. That's why I started brewing with it. The niche cards you needed to acquire for that specific deck (Breach, Brain Freeze, Orim's Chant, ETutor stuff, Predict, Intuition, Sevinne's Reclamation) were all pretty cheap. I feel bad for anyone who shelled out on Brain Freeze after it shot up on price, but it's still relatively cheap as far as Legacy goes.

If some newer players did shell out $1000+ for Breach, most of the expensive cards are reusable in other decks (blue duals, blue fetches, LED, FoW).

[Mr. Safety]

Predictions on the companion cards? What are people reading in the tea leaves?

[JackaBo]

I predict that they axe Gyruda. Uro decks can still beat Cat-decks right?

I wish they axe the whole mechanic.

[Cire]

Predictions on the companion cards? What are people reading in the tea leaves?

Companions stick around for a couple months and Lurrus and maybe Zirda get banned. The rest will stick around forever.

[the Thin White Duke]

Can they ban a mechanic? It may not be elegant, but they can errata the card so it doesn't contain the "Companion" keyword when used in eternal formats.
Without companion the cards are still fair, so why not let them live (but neutered).

[H]

Can they ban a mechanic? It may not be elegant, but they can errata the card so it doesn't contain the "Companion" keyword when used in eternal formats.
Without companion the cards are still fair, so why not let them live (but neutered).

They can realistically do whatever they want. They make the rules and can make any rules they want.

I imagine that something will be done at some point, but what and when, well, we can't realistically say now without it just being a guess.

[FTW]

I'm surprised Lurrus isn't already banned in some formats.

It's like they didn't realize constructed decks like playing low curves. The only drawback low curve decks ever had was running out of gas. Suddenly you get a free Commander that ensures you don't run out of gas.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Predictions on the companion cards? What are people reading in the tea leaves?

While I feel the mechanic should have no place in construed play other than lurrus I don't think any of them are that, it even too, powerful.

[JDK]

I'm surprised Lurrus isn't already banned in some formats.

I would like to introduce you to this fringe concept called "money".

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I'm really interested in Yorion, and the demon kraken looks like it has a niche home in legacy. That deck is scary like Eldrazi imo.

I'm sure there are control decks that can actually abuse the space of 20 more cards while having access to their finisher whenever they like.

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[Ronald Deuce]

the demon kraken looks like it has a niche home in legacy. That deck is scary like Eldrazi imo.

It'll probably get banned as quickly as Breach did, and for the same reason: People still don't seem to understand that you can use sideboard cards.

And Gigan was one of my favorite Godzilla monsters. Damned shame.

[from Cairo]

I wish they axe the whole mechanic.

In Legacy/Vintage. None of our decks need 8 card hands and with a flash back commander and the mulligan rule the micro game of being on the play.

Just feel like it removes games further from interacting over turns and pushes all focus on an even earlier fundamental turn.


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