Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
Did u mean Lavinia? Yea actually, that seems pretty oppressive. AND it’s a 2-drop. Not sure if it’s bannable though. It’s gonna be warping some dnt builds I guess
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Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer
Damn. i don't want to buy 2 tundras :)
Lavinia looks pretty bad to me, it doesn't do much, at least nothing better than the million already existing hatebears. It just either hampers some decks or is yet another thing Storm kills before going off. Could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect it to be played.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
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I'm just hoping for some smug thalia player who windmill slams this down before some petals start resolving.
What I find obnoxious about Lavinia is that it only affects opponents. I think a hate card like that should be symmetrical, as Gaddock Teeg was.
You have to put it in a heavy focused deck that is easy to interact with and shut down. It doesn't come with 10 to 12 cantrips and counters.
1+1 combos are not in of themselves bad. Painter is fantastic for example, as is Rip Helm decks. The issue with SnT is the lack of necessary skill in a cookie cutter shell matched with totally busted and broken effects that it can cheat in.
Your bias towards non-blue is really amusing. Sneak and Show has to run cantrips because all the good tutors for non-lands are banned. If they were legal it would obviously run it. BG gets two great tutors including Crop at G + instant speed. From my experience both decks assamble A+B just as easy as the other one.
One gets to play counters the other gets to play discard and protection effects like safekeeper, so its kind of a wash.
The best way to interact with combo decks is usually Counter+Discard, both do nothing against Depth+Stage. On the contrast you have to keep clunky removal like d. edict in against a combo deck. Also I guess you have not played a deck without wastelands in ages, otherweise you would understand how apish a marit lage on T2 or 3 feels.
But it is the go to wincon in "your" deck so it obviously is totally fine and all the stuff the evil blue players have is always so much more broken
I think a major difference (which was insinuated) between Depths combo and Show and Tell based decks is that once Emrakul attacks or Griselbrand enters play, the player gains so much advantage that it's almost impossible for the opponent to win from there. As you know, you tend to have to sacrifice your board or get +21'd in card advantage for your opponent. This advantage really encourages the Show and Tell player to play aggressively. I think a Depths player needs to put a little more effort into planning for opponent's responses.. Maybe. Well, discard sure helps with this aspect.
When my kill con let's me draw 14 or wipe your board in a instant and ignore removal you have a point, until then it's nothing alike.
Something to note, a single flyer will buy you a turn against Depths a decent percent of the time, a single Wasteland will delay them, Lands is built with a secondary effect of intentionally giving you life, meaning sometimes you can just take the hit and move on. These are not issues Grizzlebees and Emmy have to worry about. They tend to be a set and forget effect. The idea that Depths and SnT are even in the same play pen is laughable, even if I am biased.
Good summation. I mean, I look at it this way:
Griselbrand = 7/7 flying lifelink creature + Necropotence
Emrakul = 15/15 flying, protection from colored spells + one-sided Armageddon + Wrath of God
Marit Lage = 20/20 indestructible flyer
Two of those make it so you not only are favored to win but also strongly shape the game so that you cannot lose, one of those makes you favored to win but doesn't have any inherent way to shape the game other than to hopefully attack for lethal. It's still an unfair combo, nobody contests that, but would you think Tendrils of Agony would be appropriate if it had a built in Silence? We all know the answer to that.
I am not calling for a ban of Show and Tell, Emrakul, or Griselbrand. Not at all. I do however completely understand where Dice_Box is coming from. Depths is much closer to storm than Show and Tell, and I don't think anyone really has a problem with storm existing as a strategy.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I don't have a problem with any of these 3 Strategies. My point was that they are on the same level of accaptable legacy brokenness. S&T and Depths are just more apish than storm even though storm has ape draws too.
So no, I can't agree that they are on a completly different powerlevel and I think results back that up. I personally find both Storm and S&T easier to interact with than a combo that resolves around not casting any spells because you are just putting 2 lands into play. But maybe thats because I tend to play Ux fair decks.
It all depends on which matchups you concede. Every deck has weaknesses. Ux fair decks may not be favored against Depths but you have great matchups against a large portion of the field. If there was a deck that was favored against literally everything in the format it would be degenerate.
I don't have a problem with those 3 strategies either, but I think it's clear (my opinion mind you) that both Griselbrand and Emrakul are inherently stronger than Depths.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
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Can't believe what a salty "these-blue-toys-are-so-much-better-than-mine"-crybaby you have become... You used to have a decent view of the format, now it's all anti blue hate.
Just check the recent MTGO Legacy Challenges. People are doing superfine with their depths-combodecks somehow even though you claim they are so disadvantaged over their evil Griselbrand+Emrakul competitors (actually they are doing better than them, time to question your own skill?)
But I guess you can always claim these as statistical outliners right?
Not sure where you think my views have changed. At least not over the last few years. I can go back 2 or 3 years ago and find posts that I wanted SnT and Brainstorm removed from the format.
Also yea, Blue toys are better than mine, but I am the guy who owned everything and sold it because I like the one deck I play. I had the option to stick with blue, I gave it up. I regret only that I didn't buy my Beta Taiga sooner.
I really don't know why you think my views changed. I guess at one point I did defend Brainstorm, but that was back before I played with it.
Seriously, go back and find where my views where dramaticly different and quote me, I think your reading into my views what you want to, not my intent.
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