View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #20421
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Chalice would be borderline unplayable without brainstorm and company creating a need for hyper efficiency
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  2. #20422

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Veteran explorer, and i'd extend that to anyone who posts in that thread too.
    I would go with Cabal Therapy.

  3. #20423

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    What's a card that props up utterly unplayable chunderbucket piles and makes the whole world miserable?

    HINT: It's not blue.
    Good Race betweeen Chalice, Vial and Wasteland I would say

  4. #20424
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    We could just ban all 3 and then we could all play the same deck.
    -rob

  5. #20425
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    It's either ancient tomb or city of traitors :)
    Without this acceleration a whole lot of decks would not be playable and these decks make you miserable by either dropping a flying nearly hexproof monster very early or a lock piece like blood moon or chalice on T1.
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  6. #20426
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    What's a card that props up utterly unplayable chunderbucket piles and makes the whole world miserable?

    HINT: It's not blue.
    Jesus fucking Christ, you know there are people who play non-blue, non-chalice decks right? We aren't miserable, not by a long shot. I might be a loser for playing Depths, Rock, Deadguy Ale, Nic Fit, and janky homebrews, but for fucks sake, I'm not miserable. The only demographic that really thinks Chalice is miserable is the hyper-efficient blue crew.

    By unplayable I think you are implying 'not competitive'. That might be true of non-chalice, non-blue decks, but this is a game of choice. If winning were the only motivation for playing we'd all be BlueButtholes that shit all over the best part of the game: self-expression.

    Have a nice day. I'll be over here drinking coffee, messing with my unplayable chunderbucket decks, in my not-so-miserable life.
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  7. #20427

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I think they should ban Delver of Secrets.

  8. #20428

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    I think they should ban Delver of Secrets.
    Reasoning and goals?

    If helping non-blue midrange is the goal I think Snapcaster and TNN hurt them much more (soon maybe Leovold again)

  9. #20429

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    Reasoning and goals?

    If helping non-blue midrange is the goal I think Snapcaster and TNN hurt them much more (soon maybe Leovold again)
    Delver is obviously more ubiquitous than either Snapcaster or TNN, but MorphBerlin is correct.

    Swords-Snap-Swords, Bolt-Snap-Bolt, and even Ponder-Snap-Ponder allows blue decks to use their resources far more liberally than they could in the past. Many attribute Delver to the downfall of a deck like Zoo, but it was really Snapcaster generating an insane amount of value.

    TNN is a truly embarrassing design. At least if it were a Merfolk exclusive card by giving it an ability like "You can't cast TNN unless you control a Merfolk" it would be reasonable. The fact that fair non-blue midrange and aggro decks can't even block a blue creature while that creature trades with nearly every fair creature in the format holds back a fair amount of strategies.

    This is the major issue with giving blue the best/better midrange and control threats: the opportunity cost to playing Force of Will goes down dramatically. The same blue spells have always been played, but blue decks still need a minimum number of blue spells to actually play Force. When blue creatures become that much better than non-blue ones, it's easy to jam Force into your maindeck.

  10. #20430
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Delver was the end of Zoo, because you no longer had to choose between running the blue shell OR a quick aggro deck.

    The problem with TNN, Snapcaster & Co was, that they gave the blue tempo decks tools to "go big" and become very successful in the midrange slice of the field, pushing out classic midrange decks like Maverick. It didnt help that Shardless Agent and SFM were chopping in the same notch.
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  11. #20431
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Have a nice day. I'll be over here drinking coffee, messing with my unplayable chunderbucket decks, in my not-so-miserable life.
    I wasn't insulting any of the decks you listed. (In fact, I think a lot of brews don't get the credit they deserve.) I just find it funny that someone called Brainstorm a crutch when there are plenty of decks that absolutely have to slam a different, specific card in the first couple of turns to function against the field, and that card happens to be really obnoxious.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  12. #20432
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    I wasn't insulting any of the decks you listed. (In fact, I think a lot of brews don't get the credit they deserve.) I just find it funny that someone called Brainstorm a crutch when there are plenty of decks that absolutely have to slam a different, specific card in the first couple of turns to function against the field, and that card happens to be really obnoxious.
    Fair statement, but I have the sense you were thinking of a specific card based on how you worded the statement. Someone intimated it was Chalice, although you never revealed the specific one it was (hint: it's not blue.)

    Is there any deck in legacy without a crutch though? Aether Vial (D&T), Brainstorm (Tons), Chalice(Red/Steel/Eldrazi Stompy), Dark Ritual (Storm), Entomb (Reanimator). Legacy decks are built around broken shit, there's no way around it. Long story short, if I understand your intent correctly, I agree that it's foolish to call Brainstorm a crutch. Every legacy deck has a crutch, a fundamental card or interaction that makes it work.
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  13. #20433
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Is there any deck in legacy without a crutch though? Aether Vial (D&T), Brainstorm (Tons), Chalice(Red/Steel/Eldrazi Stompy), Dark Ritual (Storm), Entomb (Reanimator). Legacy decks are built around broken shit, there's no way around it. Long story short, if I understand your intent correctly, I agree that it's foolish to call Brainstorm a crutch. Every legacy deck has a crutch, a fundamental card or interaction that makes it work.
    Haha, that's a much better point than either of us who were pointing fingers at cards was making.
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  14. #20434

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    I would go with Cabal Therapy.
    Why? At least when my opponent casts Cabal Therapy with a non veteran explorer deck I might have a fun an interactive game. With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  15. #20435

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    who can barely afford dual lands
    Hate those people

    Btw, legacy is really great now!

  16. #20436

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Jesus fucking Christ, you know there are people who play non-blue, non-chalice decks right? We aren't miserable, not by a long shot. I might be a loser for playing Depths, Rock, Deadguy Ale, Nic Fit, and janky homebrews, but for fucks sake, I'm not miserable. The only demographic that really thinks Chalice is miserable is the hyper-efficient blue crew.
    I play burn. Chalice is pretty miserable there too.

  17. #20437
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bithlord View Post
    I play burn. Chalice is pretty miserable there too.
    Burn is polarizing; it's either miserable or fucking incredible. There is no in-between, and the meta-game decides that for you (unfortunately.) Cross your fingers and hope for Pox and Rug Delver each round.
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  18. #20438
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Why? At least when my opponent casts Cabal Therapy with a non veteran explorer deck I might have a fun an interactive game. With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.
    You're welcome to scoop to a deed you chode
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  19. #20439

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Why? At least when my opponent casts Cabal Therapy with a non veteran explorer deck I might have a fun an interactive game. With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.
    Guillotines are cheaper than duals. Pass it on.

  20. #20440

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Why? At least when my opponent casts Cabal Therapy with a non veteran explorer deck I might have a fun an interactive game. With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.
    ...I didnt realise anyone hated nic fit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

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